Gabe Newell on PS3: "just cancel it and do a do over"

[Shift]

Well i meant the ignorance and fanboyism over Half-Life and PC games, if anyone came on here and slated Half-Life, they would be crusified like no tommorow, if anyone came on here and said consoles are better than PCs, they would be raped off the website. I would do exactly that but just thought I would point it out xD

 

[Dalamari]

Well i meant the ignorance and fanboyism over Half-Life and PC games, if anyone came on here and slated Half-Life, they would be crusified like no tommorow, if anyone came on here and said consoles are better than PCs, they would be raped off the website. I would do exactly that but just thought I would point it out xD

Yeah, but we don't go and trash a wiki page or make uninformed posts like "Who is Gabe Newell and why should I care what he thinks?"

 

[Asknoone]

Well i meant the ignorance and fanboyism over Half-Life and PC games, if anyone came on here and slated Half-Life, they would be crusified like no tommorow, if anyone came on here and said consoles are better than PCs, they would be raped off the website. I would do exactly that but just thought I would point it out xD

I'm sure we'd be harsh, but I'd see we would treat their points with proper and actual responses. As for consoles being better than PC's...I don't see that as a problem on here. I know I use a console more than PC, and I haven't been crucified yet. Though judging from Stern's recent posts, its only a matter of time!

 

[-Psy-]

Except EA is making the PS3 port, not Valve.

Double Whammy. PS3 + EA in the same topic, oh dear lord.

Aside from a few exclusives, this generation has a few multi-format games and I'd just like to point out that both the 360 and PS3 are both getting GTA 4.

The GTA series on the PS2 must of sold a hell of a lot of consoles for Sony but now a game like GTA is on the 360 (?270) and the PS3 (?500?) which would you rather buy for the game alone?

 

[Mechagodzilla]

The only PC games I own are the various half-lifes and the console I use the most is the PS2 (although my favorite is the wii that I don't own yet), but I still think the PS3 is retarded.

Fanboys give legitimate complaints a bad name.

 

[Absinthe]

Well i meant the ignorance and fanboyism over Half-Life and PC games, if anyone came on here and slated Half-Life, they would be crusified like no tommorow, if anyone came on here and said consoles are better than PCs, they would be raped off the website. I would do exactly that but just thought I would point it out xD

I've seen plenty of people here express less-than-positive comments on Half-Life 2, and while there are often arguments, I've rarely seen them become volatile.

Take note, there is a difference between:
"I dislike Half-Life 2 because of these reasons..."
and
"OMG WTF y doesn hl2 have an m16!?! this gaem isnt realistic omg no storry at all, gabe is fat"

 

[CyberPitz]

I've seen plenty of people here express less-than-positive comments on Half-Life 2, and while there are often arguments, I've rarely seen them become volatile.

Take note, there is a difference between:
"I dislike Half-Life 2 because of these reasons..."
and
"OMG WTF y doesn hl2 have an m16!?! this gaem isnt realistic omg no storry at all, gabe is fat"

Don't quote my dislike for HL2 and a lacking of the M16 without my permission, please.

 

[Absinthe]

My apologies.

 

[Sparta]

Well i meant the ignorance and fanboyism over Half-Life and PC games, if anyone came on here and slated Half-Life, they would be crusified like no tommorow, if anyone came on here and said consoles are better than PCs, they would be raped off the website. I would do exactly that but just thought I would point it out xD

Pish posh, there are quite a few members here that both hate Half-Life 2 and think consoles kick ass compared to PC's and they are free to roam the forums without any forcible penetration from other members.

Fact of the matter is, subjects like the PS3, the popularity of certain games, how amazingly feminine and lame JRPG heroes, always end up sparking a lot of debate regardless of whether the forum is a PC or Console central forum.

I've seen the same arguments made for the games like Halo or Far Cry on other forums as i have here. Same goes for the PS3.

But for some reason most gamers seem to like the Metal Gear Solid games, and thats just not cool. They suck. Hardcore. Thats right.

No really, they do.

Suck.

Some of the worst games i've ever played.

Really.

Stop talking and die already you stupid boss, i just put a bullet in your face, i don't want to hear about how you burnt down some village with your mind powers. Just die quietly and quickly.

****ing Psycho Mantis.

After having said all of that, and after reading the playstation site, i just have to point out that i do own a ps2 and play it just as much as any other console i have. Although at this point i see no need whatsoever to get a PS3 now that i have a Wii and a 360.

 

[smwScott]

There is a lot of mental retardation on this forum. The PS3 is just a console, and a pretty good one. Yeah, it costs about $100 more than it should, but it's not like you're not getting what you pay for. Sony has the best developers and the best exclusives, and to me that's all that matters.

If you like the developers that MS has bought better than the ones who are either exclusive/owned by/just choose to only make games on Playstation, then you're better off with a 360. Same goes if you like Nintendo games better. It's really that simple.

What you should not do is be a ****ing retard. You idiots root for consoles like a goddamn sports team. You nitpick and bitch about every little thing Sony does like a menopausal woman. Seriously, why can't you just pick a ****ing console (or more than one if you're rich) and just be happy with it. I did and you don't see me going into every 360 thread and bitching about disc scratching, no HDMI, not every unit having a hard drive, low capacity discs, 1 year lifespan for launch consoles, being forced to pay for online matchmaking, ruining of Rare, etc. They all have flaws, get used to it.

BTW - MGS2 is the best ****ing game ever made.

 

[Absinthe]

BTW - MGS2 is the best ****ing game ever made.

INSTANT DISCREDITING

 

[Griz]

BTW - MGS2 is the most over-rated ****ing game ever made.

Fixed.

 

[Asknoone]

BTW - MGS2 is the best ****ing game ever made.

Serious FAIL.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

ITS A SIMULATION LOLOLOLOLOL.


Ahem, yeah Im not a fan of the PS3, but Im not going to call it a complete failure,Seeing as I still want to get it but only for stuff like MGS4,FF13,DMC4, and others.

 

[Iced_Eagle]

I like how Gabe bashes the PS3 but still ports EP2, portal and TF2 to the PS3. I call that an automatic fail on Valves' part.

If you dislike the system DON'T SUPPORT IT BY PUTTING YOUR SOFTWARE ON IT!!

It's EA's call and not Valve's...

 

[Stigmata]

There is a lot of mental retardation on this forum. Thanks, we thought no-one would notice. The PS3 is just a console, and a pretty good one. Yeah, it costs about $100 more than it should, but it's not like you're not getting what you pay for. What? If you got what you pay for, it wouldn't be $100 overpriced. Sony has the best developers and the best exclusives, and to me that's all that matters. Quite the pile of objective evidence you have here.

If you like the developers that MS has bought better than the ones who are either exclusive/owned by/just choose to only make games on Playstation, then you're better off with a 360. Same goes if you like Nintendo games better. It's really that simple. Fair enough. I like the subtle pro-Sony slant.

What you should not do is be a ****ing retard. Hmm. Can't see how this could go wrong. You idiots root for consoles like a goddamn sports team. No insults here. Keep going. You nitpick and bitch about every little thing Sony does like a menopausal woman. No, really. I'm taking this completely seriously. Seriously, why can't you just pick a ****ing console (or more than one if you're rich) and just be happy with it. Because we'd rather say something when someone does something stupid. We're allowed to have opinions about things we don't intend to buy. Or was I not informed of some recently-passed Internet Patriot Act? I did and you don't see me going into every 360 thread and bitching about disc scratching, no HDMI, not every unit having a hard drive, low capacity discs, 1 year lifespan for launch consoles, being forced to pay for online matchmaking, ruining of Rare, etc. They all have flaws, get used to it. Some of those are legitimate concerns, but come on. You should know by now that disc scratching and Rare's condition have nothing to do with Microsoft. They have to do with stupid people and, well, Rare, respectively.

BTW - MGS2 is the best ****ing game ever made. I laughed here, by the way.

.

 

[Cole]

Stigmata
I ABSOLUTELY
LOVE
YOU​

(in a non sexual way)​

In other words, awesome post.

 

[Gorgon]

Stigmata
I ABSOLUTELY
LOVE
YOU​

(in a non sexual way)​

In other words, awesome post.

lol how long did it take you to build the text ?

G.N is dam right on this one.:hmph:

 

[Cole]

lol how long did it take you to build the text ?

16^(-5/4) seconds.

 

[Core407]

In 3 years the PS3 will make Gabe Newell look like a complete noob. All I see is a man who is too lazy to learn new hardware - even if it is difficult.

 

[XIII]

In 3 years the PS3 will make Gabe Newell look like a complete noob. All I see is a man who is too lazy to learn new hardware - even if it is difficult.

OMG he says gabes a NOOB:sniper:

 

[Vegeta897]

Plenty of people here are acting just as ridiculous. You're all focusing completely on Sony's mistakes and therefore deeming the ps3 to be a "complete" failure when it is not.

Lol-ing at whoever said "same controller, same gameplay", I really don't know where you got that from. Indeed a new controller does mean new gameplay, but the reverse does not always have to be true.

The PS3 does have a major element that it is dominating in, which has opportunity for plenty of NEW gameplay. Physics. You people are acting odd, you say you don't care about all these new graphics, yet in the same post boast how the X360 has a better graphics card.

Then you say you have a right to express your opinion, and a post later yell or laugh at someone for expressing theirs.

We get it, PS3's release did not go at all as well as it could have. Stop trying to push that into a complete PS3 flamefest. It has its qualities and they'll shine some day when Sony gets their act together or we let the price drop and more games to release, like I said for the third or fourth time now.

Stigmata, I noticed your little inserted comments did almost nothing to actually argue against what he said, but instead it was you making witty little comments from a high horse. And then laugh at his opinion at the end.

Indeed some people in this thread are acting retarded, and there are plenty of fanboys roaming around, but lets not make any judgements of the entire fanbase based on a few (or a lot) of bad apples.

 

[Cole]

Vegeta your right the Ps3 is not a complete waste. However the fact is Sony could have done much better. Sony is pushing there own agenda forward with Blu-Ray and not caring about the consumer. Furthermore, Sony has only pushed out a high priced machine compared to the competition. Not only that but they have failed to get that many out for them. If Sony can't produce enough consoles, exclusives wont have a large enough target for the Ps3 and will therefor also go the 360 in order to make a profit. As a consumer you could easily realize this and just pick up a 360 and be sure that most exclusives will come on to the 360 in order to make a good enough profit. Personally i'd rather get a 360 than a Ps3 because it's cheaper and most games will come to the 360 anyway. Even after all this they go ahead and make something that was hard for a developer much harder than it was before for little if any real benefit, and who takes the price for that? The consumer.

you say you don't care about all these new graphics, yet in the same post boast how the X360 has a better graphics card.

But you must realize, a major thing that gets argued with the Ps3 is much better graphics. However thats false it's a very slight difference if any at all. Simply calling Ps3 fanboys on this is not boasting, it is merly telling them to shut the **** up and come back to reality.

 

[Core407]

OMG he says gabes a NOOB:sniper:

Gabe is a noob when it comes to console development. Only reason he touched the Xbox was because of its PC-like architecture and development environment.

Kojima has already stated that the hardware is difficult to work with, but just like the PS2 hardware, people will eventually master it and perform some amazing things.

Cole: On the issue of graphics, you need to realize that almost all titles released on both systems will look identical. The ones that will stand out are the first party titles and right now MS hasn't delivered. Gears looks amazing, but its far from the best thing that'll come out this generation and its visuals are more of a testament to the power of the U3 engine and not the 360 hardware.

First party offerings from Sony already rival 2nd gen 360 graphics and the system hasn't even been out for a half a year.

F1
Heavenly Sword
MotorStorm

Edit 2: The only exclusives you'll really see are from first and second party developers or with third party developers that received nice money hats. Costs are too high to not port games to other systems and thats why the first party titles are going to sell systems even more.

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

In 3 years the PS3 will make Gabe Newell look like a complete noob. All I see is a man who is too lazy to learn new hardware - even if it is difficult.

Right right right..

In 3 years computer hardware will probably surpass PS3 hardware easily...

 

[Vegeta897]

Just to make sure you understand me Cole, I'm not saying Sony didn't **** up, they did, and I'm not saying you should buy a PS3 instead right now either.

I'm saying some day it'll be worth getting.

And as for PS3 boasting graphics, I wouldn't speak for everyone there because all I am interested in is the physics capability of the PS3. As far as I care to notice the graphical level between 360 and ps3 is the same, and I'm sure the average gamer doesn't care either. Physical ability is a far more powerful factor in making good games these days. Physics can be directly involved with gameplay, such as Motor Storm with the advanced damage (Burnout, anyone?) or perhaps a game involving liquid simulation (I've seen 360 liquid simulation, it doesn't come close) or perhaps a game where you are godzilla and you destroy entire cities where one building can be broken into thousands of pieces.

Again, I'm just pointing out the advantages of the PS3, not saying it's a better console or that physics are more important than graphics or whatever, it's my opinion that I like physics, but it's something you shouldn't forget amidst all the Sony stupidity.

 

[Core407]

Just to make sure you understand me Cole, I'm not saying Sony didn't **** up, they did, and I'm not saying you should buy a PS3 instead right now either.

I'm saying some day it'll be worth getting.

And as for PS3 boasting graphics, I wouldn't speak for everyone there because all I am interested in is the physics capability of the PS3. As far as I care to notice the graphical level between 360 and ps3 is the same, and I'm sure the average gamer doesn't care either. Physical ability is a far more powerful factor in making good games these days. Physics can be directly involved with gameplay, such as Motor Storm with the advanced damage (Burnout, anyone?) or perhaps a game involving liquid simulation (I've seen 360 liquid simulation, it doesn't come close) or perhaps a game where you are godzilla and you destroy entire cities where one building can be broken into thousands of pieces.

Again, I'm just pointing out the advantages of the PS3, not saying it's a better console or that physics are more important than graphics or whatever, it's my opinion that I like physics, but it's something you shouldn't forget amidst all the Sony stupidity.

Where are you getting this physics stuff from?

 

[Vegeta897]

Erm, what do you mean?

Just look at some of the tech demos, or play one of the games. Or watch one of the commercials.

 

[Cole]

I seen the physic video's for the Ps3. However what happens when you take into account everything else? Insane graphics, AI and how it responds to physics, and etc. I really do question how well the Ps3 will be able to handle physics and gameplay-physic interactions. Lets not forget that the Ps3 does not do great at AI. Now if your going to use physics for more than looks on the Ps3 the AI is also going to have to be able to interact with it. Throw in the Ps3 also does not do great at gameplay code. In the end I don't see the Ps3 pulling off anything the 360 can't when it comes to physics due to all the other factors that have to be taken in.

Just to make sure you understand me Cole, I'm not saying Sony didn't **** up, they did, and I'm not saying you should buy a PS3 instead right now either.

I'm just explaining why people are bashing the Ps3. Sony ****ed up and when a big corporation ****s up it's your duty to give them a hard time about it.

Again, I'm just pointing out the advantages of the PS3, not saying it's a better console or that physics are more important than graphics or whatever, it's my opinion that I like physics, but it's something you shouldn't forget amidst all the Sony stupidity.

Yes, however physics does not override Sony ****ing up. When a game that comes out that utilizes them we can all "point and go WoW!!" however it's not that time right now. Right now it's the time to "point and bash".

 

[Core407]

Erm, what do you mean?

Just look at some of the tech demos, or play one of the games. Or watch one of the commercials.

Are you talking about the controller? I honestly don't know what you mean when you speak about "physics". AGEIA retracted their statements about the 360 being the weaker in the physics department and clarified that the tests didn't test the capacity of the systems hardware.

Edit:

Cole: Where are you getting this information? The AI comment doesn't even make any sense...

 

[Qonfused]

I agree wholly.

I do not know why everyone is bashing the PS3. Just because it had a rocky start doesn't mean the console is doomed forever. In the past it has been like that, but this is Sony. I honestly doubt Sony will stop pushing the PS3 like Sega did with the Dreamcast. Looking at the specs, the PS3 is amazing. As Vegeta outlined, the physics capabilities are astounding. The Burnout series has already seen real-time metal bending; now imagine buildings, street signs, outdoor tables and other objects folding, bending, breaking, chipping in real-time. Imagine snow falling to interact with each other as they land... and as they mush together as your character steps on them. Imagine real-time body decay for shooters. Shoot someone in the leg and their leg decays relative to the angle, type of gun and ammo shot.

The possibilities go on and on. Don't close the door on the PS3; it'll come back to **** your face off.

 

[Vegeta897]

Physics calculation power... In a given game the PS3 could for simplicities sake have far more boxes in the room than the X360. (Really stupid example but this is a really simple thing to have to explain, no offense, I can see where you misunderstood)

Yes, however physics does not override Sony ****ing up.

Well it certainly prevents it from being a "complete" ****up.

 

[Core407]

I agree wholly.

I do not know why everyone is bashing the PS3. Just because it had a rocky start doesn't mean the console is doomed forever. In the past it has been like that, but this is Sony. I honestly doubt Sony will stop pushing the PS3 like Sega did with the Dreamcast. Looking at the specs, the PS3 is amazing. As Vegeta outlined, the physics capabilities are astounding. The Burnout series has already seen real-time metal bending; now imagine buildings, street signs, outdoor tables and other objects folding, bending, breaking, chipping in real-time. Imagine snow falling to interact with each other as they land... and as they mush together as your character steps on them. Imagine real-time body decay for shooters. Shoot someone in the leg and their leg decays relative to the angle, type of gun and ammo shot.

The possibilities go on and on. Don't close the door on the PS3; it'll come back to **** your face off.

Holy **** you guys have really high expectations for next generation. The fact that the games are all using high-res textures, running in 720p and pushing more polys then ever will prevent anything like what you described from happening.

Its all possible, but you're going to have to cut down on all the other stuff people expect.

 

[Cole]

Cole: Where are you getting this information? The AI comment doesn't even make any sense...

It's widely known the Ps3 does not do well at gameplay or AI code. Simply due to the in order exceution and asymmteric design.

The AI comment makes perfect sense. While yes you may be able to do this much physics, however you also have to make your AI interact with physics. Making AI interact with physics is no easy task and can consume a lot of CPU power. Now have a processor that is inefficient at AI code in general. Your cutting off a lot of physic power because it has to go towards the AI. In the end, you may have to tone down the physics in order to have the processing capacity for the AI and everything else. It makes perfect sense. So if you want physics to be more than special effects that do nothing and lets say you want to use them to explode buildings. Well now your going to have to write AI code that can navigate around all the chunks, can run out of the way when pieces of rumble are falling toward them. Those are interactions with the AI that are going to have to be taken into account or else your game will be nothing more than a tech demo. I want games not tech demos.

Looking at the specs, the PS3 is amazing

Please go back in the past and tell me how many times the console with the best specs did the best in terms of sales?

Well it certainly prevents it from being a "complete" ****up.

No, when you forget about the consumer and ride your own agenda then the consumer should recognize that you have completely ****ed up.

 

[Vegeta897]

Err, you must be misunderstanding something, Core, I don't see what's so complicated about the things Qonfused said.

 

[Qonfused]

Please go back in the past and tell me how many times the console with the best specs did the best in terms of sales?

What does sales have any thing to do with system specs?

 

[Core407]

It's widely known the Ps3 does not do well at gameplay or AI code. Simply due to the in order exceution and asymmteric design.

The AI comment makes perfect sense. While yes you may be able to do this much physics, however you also have to make your AI interact with physics. Making AI interact with physics is no easy task and can consume a lot of CPU power. Now have a processor that is inefficient at AI code in general. Your cutting off a lot of physic power because it has to go towards the AI. In the end, you may have to tone down the physics in order to have the processing capacity for the AI and everything else. It makes perfect sense.



Please go back in the past and tell me how many times the console with the best specs did the best in terms of sales?

I think it all comes to the SPEs and how well theyre utilized. The problem is that it takes a lot of talent to use all of the SPEs at full force at all times. Still, I don't see why they can't just use stream processing for the AI/physics.

 

[Cole]

What does sales have any thing to do with system specs?

Nevermind, I read wayyyyyy to quickly. I thought you said the Ps3 was going to win this generation because of it's technical aspects.

I think it all comes to the SPEs and how well theyre utilized. The problem is that it takes a lot of talent to use all of the SPEs at full force at all times. Still, I don't see why they can't just use stream processing for the AI/physics.

A lot of talent and a lot of time. Not only that but developers can't use all the SPE's. One full SPE is dedicated to the OS, and another can be taken by the OS at any time from the game. Throw in the OS is a memory hog(at least compared to the 360's).

Lets not forget that while each SPE may run at 3.2ghz there architecture is relatively inefficient compared to the Pc architectures were use to. Not only that but they have an incredibly small cache coupled with a narrow excecution core. So each SPE really is not all that fast. In order to make full use of all the SPE's it's going to take some incredibly talented programming and lots of time. When it all comes down, I simply can't see full blown out AI interacting with full blown out physics on the Ps3, while having all the incredible graphics.

 

[Core407]

Err, you must be misunderstanding something, Core, I don't see what's so complicated about the things Qonfused said.

I wasn't confused with Qonfused (HAH!), but just surprised in his expectations from next generation. Taking a look at all future games, I don't see any that will do any of the things you mentioned. To me it seems a lot of developers are just getting bigger with their worlds, but keeping the same game play intact.

 

[smwScott]

I would like to thank the people who replied to my earlier post for proving my point. This forum is filled with bandwagon hopping children.

If it was popular to bash the 360 you sheep would be doing the same thing. Hell if the internet told you to punch yourself in the dick you'd probably do it.