Gabe Newell on PS3: "just cancel it and do a do over"

[Vegeta897]

I wasn't confused with Qonfused (HAH!), but just surprised in his expectations from next generation. Taking a look at all future games, I don't see any that will do any of the things you mentioned.

...

How about you take a look at what they've already done... Try doing one of the things I said earlier.

 

[Qonfused]

I wasn't confused with Qonfused (HAH!)

 

[Core407]

I would like to thank the people who replied to my earlier post for proving my point. This forum is filled with bandwagon hopping children.

If it was popular to bash the 360 you sheep would be doing the same thing. Hell if the internet told you to punch yourself in the dick you'd probably do it.

You're still wrong.

 

[Core407]

...

How about you take a look at what they've already done... Try doing one of the things I said earlier.

I've pretty much played all there is on the 360 and I don't see anything along the lines of what was mentioned, but feel free to point them out.

 

[Vegeta897]

I've pretty much played all there is on the 360 and I don't see anything along the lines of what was mentioned, but feel free to point them out.

360...?? We're talking about the PS3!!

And I've told you what to look at if you want proof of the PS3's physics power.

 

[Stigmata]

Stigmata, I noticed your little inserted comments did almost nothing to actually argue against what he said, but instead it was you making witty little comments from a high horse. And then laugh at his opinion at the end.

His argument was pretty much comprised of insults.

Besides which, I honestly don't see Sony making many good decisions as far as how they handle the PS3. If you or Scott or Qonfused can prove me wrong, then by all means I'll admit to being wrong. But I'm not going to praise Sony for stupidity, ignorance, arrogance, or technological failure*.

*for the record: I speak mostly of Cell's over-complicated nature, forcing an HD format on a somewhat unwilling market, failure to live up to Xbox Live, etc. I'm not making a blanket "the PS3 just sucks" statement.

 

[Cole]

If it was popular to bash the 360 you sheep would be doing the same thing.

Yes and i've been saying that if you haven't realized. Right now it is time to bash Sony because Sony have been ****ing up for a while now. From DRM, exploding batteries, to the Ps3.

When a great awesome game comes out on the Ps3 we can praise the Ps3. I mean if you don't want me to bash Sony for ****ing up then don't expect me to praise them for doing something good. Thats how it works. If you don't like it well, then keep posting and we can keep posting more stuff.

btw I edited my last post to fill some other stuff I hadn't gotton in.

 

[Vegeta897]

Wow, Stig, you don't listen do you? We're not asking anyone to "praise" Sony. Stop being ridiculous and putting words in our mouths.
And we're not saying Sony made many good decisions either!

I don't know what you read wrong but all of what you said about what you think we're trying to do here is false.

 

[Core407]

His argument was pretty much comprised of insults.

Besides which, I honestly don't see Sony making many good decisions as far as how they handle the PS3. If you or Scott or Qonfused can prove me wrong, then by all means I'll admit to being wrong. But I'm not going to praise Sony for stupidity, ignorance, arrogance, or technological failure*.

*for the record: I speak mostly of Cell's over-complicated nature, forcing an HD format on a somewhat unwilling market, failure to live up to Xbox Live, etc. I'm not making a blanket "the PS3 just sucks" statement.

From a business perspective, throwing in Blu Ray into the PS3 is a brilliant move. Not only will it allow them to inflate the install base, but it'll help them conquer the medium war. Two birds with one stone my friend, two birds with one stone.

The difficulty in developing for the system will always be a double-edged sword. At first youre obviously going to get resistance towards it, but once people actually learn it and figure out how to utilize it to its fullness, all that talk will die down. Same thing happened with the PS2 and look at some of the things that system managed to pull off. There are already developers who are speaking about its real power and these are people who worked on all other consoles and not just on the PC. (Konami/Tecmo)
The whole Xbox Live thing is great, though. I wouldn't mind Sony offering something like this, but I'm not holding my breath.

Vegeta897: You mentioned a commercial as evidence of the power of the system and nothing more. The mud in Motorstorm is great but its all visual and has no impact on gameplay.

The next Sega Rally title is going to have deformable terrain that affects the physics of the cars and its seeing release on all systems.

 

[Vegeta897]

Vegeta897: You mentioned a commercial as evidence of the power of the system and nothing more. The mud in Motorstorm is great but its all visual and has no impact on gameplay.

A commercial, and tech demos. And I'm not talking about the mud in motorstorm, you silly goose. I'm talking that the vehicles are entirely built out of physically simulated metal and other parts, which can bend, tear, shatter, etc.
And that does indeed affect gameplay, it's pretty much the entire premise of it.

 

[Stigmata]

So then what's the problem? I levelled smartass comments at a guy who basically insulted anyone taking a negative stance against Sony, regardless of merit.

In my estimation, the vast majority of us are making legitimate complaints against Sony and the PS3. Yes, we get carried away sometimes, but that's no reason for everyone to toe the line of 'flame war'.

[edit] Never mind. This is pointless. Disregard me.

 

[Qonfused]

<3 Stig.

 

[Core407]

A commercial, and tech demos. And I'm not talking about the mud in motorstorm, you silly goose. I'm talking that the vehicles are entirely built out of physically simulated metal and other parts, which can bend, tear, shatter, etc.
And that does indeed affect gameplay, it's pretty much the entire premise of it.

I've seen the tech demo where they shoot at the car and it breaks apart, but I've seen a similar tech demo on the 360 (XNA) where they crash the car into a wall and it deforms in real-time.

I still don't buy it, but thanks to Kreiger and Spore, I see it as a possibility in the future.

 

[Absinthe]

I would like to thank the people who replied to my earlier post for proving my point. This forum is filled with bandwagon hopping children.

If it was popular to bash the 360 you sheep would be doing the same thing. Hell if the internet told you to punch yourself in the dick you'd probably do it.

Somebody's angry because his preferred console isn't getting any love on this forum. I'll give you a hug if it makes you feel better.

Vegeta, tech demos are largely indicative of **** all until they see actual implementation into the game itself. Pulling off physics demonstrations aren't all that impressive when you place them in a context in which most of the console's horsepower is being dedicated to the processes while neglecting others. And even the very demonstrations themselves hardly surpass the 360 under the same conditions, if at all.

So let's see, architecture that's difficult to program for, absurd pricing, forcing an unneeded and largely unwanted media format, paling online service, smoke and mirrors (Killzone 2)... and somehow heavy bashing of the console is uncalled for? I'm not saying Microsoft and the 360 are without their share of flaws, but again, context. 360's been out for over a year and the PS3 has just recently been released. Guess which one is going to get most of the heat?
Even the very notion that the PS3 will eventually do great is unsubstantiated since there really are no indicators of it at this point. A price drop and exclusive titles will certainly help, but they're nothing confirming.

Besides. **** Sony. They're deceitful idiots whose egos have clearly rotted they're brains. So if the negative opinions are excessive, who cares. Let people have their fun and catharsis. It has less to do with fanboyism and more with the spectacle of watching a giant like Sony trip and tumble with every step it seems to take.

None of this should matter though. If you want it, you buy it. Otherwise you just ignore it.

 

[smwScott]

If you or Scott or Qonfused can prove me wrong, then by all means I'll admit to being wrong.

I have before, but people don't listen. If I just list the facts it gets ignored or some idiot who doesn't understand what I said writes a ****ing dissertation on it. If I'm remotely hostile people just act offended and don't respond to the point. If there's one thing in the entire post they can critique then they'll only quote that and ignore the rest. It's like arguing with two year olds, what's the point?

Not only that, I don't really have an urge to defend a ****ing mega corporation. I'm not their goddamn PR team. I chose Sony only because of their first and second party developers, as well as a few exclusive franchises like Metal Gear. For what it's worth, I do like the console better too, but that really wasn't a large factor in my decision.

If you want to know why, I'll tell you. Once you buy it, you're done. Sony doesn't nickel and dime the shit out of you. You get a top of the line console with a large upgradeable hard disk, HDMI, wi-fi, card readers, and some other shit. You get an online service that allows you to surf the internet, communicate with friends, play games, etc. - all for free. I like the controller. I like that all versions of the console come with a hard disk, so that developers can use it for games. Blu-Ray actually is helpful for games. MGS3:Subsistence and GoW2 are both PS2 games that couldn't fit on a 9GB DVD and spilled over to two. Metal Gear Solid 4 won't fit on the normal 25GB disc and is using the 50GB spec. It makes a difference.

It's really just things like allowing you to upgrade hard disks rather than making you buy a shitty 20GB propriety HD for $100. Or controllers for $50. Or wi-fi for $100. Or a years worth of being able to play a game online - something that should be expected - for $50 a year. That's another online game you could be playing on PS3 every year. If you use X-BOX live for two years you've equaled the cost of the $500 system and you still don't have a Blu-Ray player, HDMI, or any of the other features.

There are downsides too of course. It costs too much. It's harder to develop for. There's no achievement system. A few other things as well, but all consoles have their downsides. I like it, and if you don't then that's cool. If you want to say you don't on a forum, that's cool too. What I don't get is this incessant bitching, it's just dumb. It really does seem like you people root for these corporations like a sports team. Keep in mind the company most of you seem to support is ****ing Microsoft.

 

[Core407]

I personally think the PS3 is a steal at its price.

 

[Absinthe]

Keep in mind the company most of you seem to support is ****ing Microsoft.

I've seen people support the 360. I've rarely, if at all, seen anybody cheer on Microsoft the corporation.

 

[Vegeta897]

and somehow heavy bashing of the console is uncalled for?

Wow
Because I totally said that

That's what I've been trying to convince you guys all the time! Don't bash Sony! Yeah that totally makes sense!



How many more times are people going to misunderstand the simplest of things?

 

[Absinthe]

YOU LACK CLARITY

God damn it, everybody's god damn posts in this topic meld into one stupid gaggle**** of blegh.

THEN WHAT THE SHIT ARE YOU SAYING

 

[Core407]

How about we agree to disagree?

PS3 owns j00

 

[Cole]

Sony ****ed up with the Ps3. They coulda done a lot better. That simple, are we all square?

 

[Vegeta897]

YOU LACK CLARITY

God damn it, everybody's god damn posts in this topic meld into one stupid gaggle**** of blegh.

THEN WHAT THE SHIT ARE YOU SAYING

Point me to one god damn post where I said everyone should stop bashing Sony. I'm not asking you to ****ing decipher something, if I say it I say it, if I don't I don't.

If you're asking my general main point in this thread, I've said THAT a thousand ****ing times too, PS3 IS NOT A COMPLETE FAILURE, AND WE SHOULD NOT IGNORE ITS STRONGPOINTS JUST BECAUSE SONY SUCKS ASS.

If you already knew this, then I have no business with you and you can kindly stop assuming shit.

 

[Stigmata]

I have before, but people don't listen. If I just list the facts it gets ignored or some idiot who doesn't understand what I said writes a ****ing dissertation on it. If I'm remotely hostile people just act offended and don't respond to the point. If there's one thing in the entire post they can critique then they'll only quote that and ignore the rest. It's like arguing with two year olds, what's the point?

Well said. I'll address every single point you make, just to be sure that it's a fair response.

If you want to know why, I'll tell you. Once you buy it, you're done. Sony doesn't nickel and dime the shit out of you. Alright, that I can kind of agree with. Microsoft did a terrible job as far as nickel-and-diming their customers, especially with the damn battery packs for the wireless controllers. You get a top of the line console with a large upgradeable hard disk, HDMI, wi-fi, card readers, and some other shit. That's true. The real value of the card readers is subjective, but the WiFi and hard drive are definitely useful. You get an online service that allows you to surf the internet, communicate with friends, play games, etc. - all for free. This, however, is not a fair comparison. Yes, the Sony online service is free, but it's poorly implemented and decidedly unstandardized across all games. You get what you pay for. I like the controller. I like that all versions of the console come with a hard disk, so that developers can use it for games. Good point. Blu-Ray actually is helpful for games. MGS3:Subsistence and GoW2 are both PS2 games that couldn't fit on a 9GB DVD and spilled over to two. Metal Gear Solid 4 won't fit on the normal 25GB disc and is using the 50GB spec. It makes a difference. Probably a good point, but I've heard that most games are pressed with unused data and content still on the disc, taking up space. Any truth to this? I also highly doubt that MGS4 is taking up over 25GB of data, when even PC games (excluding massive RPGs) haven't yet hit the limits of a dual-layer DVD. Maybe it's a load of cinematics, but that's unlikely, given that what we've seen seems to be real-time cutscenes.

It's really just things like allowing you to upgrade hard disks rather than making you buy a shitty 20GB propriety HD for $100. Or controllers for $50. Or wi-fi for $100. Or a years worth of being able to play a game online - something that should be expected - for $50 a year. Online - you get what you pay for. The hard-drive issue I do sympathize with, though it's unclear whether or not this truly delivers any tangible benefit besides a few seconds' less loading time. That's another online game you could be playing on PS3 every year. If you use X-BOX live for two years you've equaled the cost of the $500 system and you still don't have a Blu-Ray player, HDMI, or any of the other features. To each his own. To me, $100 is better spent on integrated online features, rather than an expensive media format that costs more per movie anyway.

There are downsides too of course. It costs too much. It's harder to develop for. There's no achievement system. Meh, achievements aren't that great. A few other things as well, but all consoles have their downsides. I like it, and if you don't then that's cool. If you want to say you don't on a forum, that's cool too. What I don't get is this incessant bitching, it's just dumb. IMO, Sony has it coming. Their smoke-and-mirrors PR campaigns, the comments they make about competitors, the blatant lies they propagate, it all adds up. It really does seem like you people root for these corporations like a sports team. Keep in mind the company most of you seem to support is ****ing Microsoft. What companies we root for should have no bearing on the legitimacy of our arguments.

 

[Cole]

PS3 IS NOT A COMPLETE FAILURE, AND WE SHOULD NOT IGNORE ITS STRONGPOINTS JUST BECAUSE SONY SUCKS ASS.

Well wtf do you want everyone to post. Something like

Omfg Sony ****ed up with the Ps3. But hey it's good at physics!!


No that isn't how it works. If your pissed off with a company you don't praise there product at all. The Ps3 does have some good things, but hey we shouldn't ignore the fact that Sony really ****ed up because the console is good at physics. So I am going to say, "Sony ****ed up with the Ps3". Yes the Ps3 may be good at physics, but sony still ****ed up and therefor I made a completely valid statement that requires on response about physics. I might even go overboard and say, "The ps3 is a worthless piece of crap that should never have entered this plain of existance", while yes the Ps3 may be good at physics and it could even be used as a heater! Obviously I just don't care and you should ignore the post.

 

[Absinthe]

Point me to one god damn post where I said everyone should stop bashing Sony. I'm not asking you to ****ing decipher something, if I say it I say it, if I don't I don't.

If you're asking my general main point in this thread, I've said THAT a thousand ****ing times too, PS3 IS NOT A COMPLETE FAILURE, AND WE SHOULD NOT IGNORE ITS STRONGPOINTS JUST BECAUSE SONY SUCKS ASS.

If you already knew this, then I have no business with you and you can kindly stop assuming shit.

You imply people are only bashing Sony because they are fanboys, bandwagon hoppers, and/or retards. What the hell else am I supposed to assume.

Strong points? Like? It may have its strengths, but there is nothing exceptional.

 

[Core407]

Stigmata: The BluRay format may seem like a bad idea, but it'll payoff in the long run. There are already Xbox 360 titles that span multiple discs and the system is only a year old.

 

[Absinthe]

The only way Blu-Ray will pay off is if it manages to rape HD-DVD, and that prospect doesn't seem likely at the moment.

 

[Stigmata]

Stigmata: The BluRay format may seem like a bad idea, but it'll payoff in the long run. There are already Xbox 360 titles that span multiple discs and the system is only a year old.

None that I play

As far as I recall it's just been that one jRPG that got middling reviews back in October.

 

[Cole]

Stigmata: The BluRay format may seem like a bad idea, but it'll payoff in the long run. There are already Xbox 360 titles that span multiple discs and the system is only a year old.

If Blu-Ray becomes dominant your only giving a hell of a lot more power to Sony. Sony controls the content on the Blu-Ray and reserves that right and yes they do actively exercise that right. Thats why I dislike Blu-Ray and why I am looking forward to HD-DVD. A way to help prevent Blu-Ray would be idk... not supporting the Ps3 which utilizes it?

 

[Vegeta897]

I noticed your comments are much nicer now, Stig <3
I only saw like one sentence where you didn't either say "good point" or "it's matter of opinion"

Well wtf do you want everyone to post. Something like

Omfg Sony ****ed up with the Ps3. But hey it's good at physics!!

It's not what you didn't say, it's what you did. Several people in here said Sony was a COMPLETE failure. I wanted to make sure you all understand how ridiculous it is to say that.

Besides, if there wasn't anyone coming into this thread to debate, it would pretty much be a big circle jerk and very repetitive
Woo Gabe hates the PS3, not much discussion value unless... someone steps in

 

[Core407]

If Blu-Ray becomes dominant your only giving a hell of a lot more power to Sony. Sony controls the content on the Blu-Ray and reserves that right and yes they do actively exercise that right. Thats why I dislike Blu-Ray and why I am looking forward to HD-DVD. A way to help prevent Blu-Ray would be idk... not supporting the Ps3 which utilizes it?

Stigmata: The game was Enchanted Arms and I think Blue Dragon is on multiple discs.

Cole: It'll only last for a couple years before the next medium comes out. I also think the whole movie downloading concept will take off and users will be presented with a lot of options as far as obtaining content.

You may dislike blu-ray for those reasons, but theyre not valid in the videogame world.

Vegeta897: You gotta know by know that "a complete failure" equates to systems not selling out. Them videogamers are a fickle group!

 

[Cole]

It's not what you didn't say, it's what you did. Several people in here said Sony was a COMPLETE failure. I wanted to make sure you all understand how ridiculous it is to say that.

Your right it is ridiculous. But guess what? When someone calls it a complete failure obviously they don't give a shit that it has it's uses. I mean the Ps3 can be used as a heater or can be sold to make a profit.
The point is when someone calls it completely useless, don't get all jumpy about it.... IGNORE IT.

You may dislike blu-ray for those reasons, but theyre not valid in the videogame world.

I disagree.

Besides, if there wasn't anyone coming into this thread to debate, it would pretty much be a big circle jerk and very repetitive

Yes, and I could have done some better Sony bashing text instead of having the urge to respond to you. Something like...

GUESS WHAT SONY?
THE PS3 IS A
COMPLETE
FAILURE​

 

[Core407]

A complete failure of the span of a month.

 

[Stigmata]

The point is when someone calls it completely useless, don't get all jumpy about it.... IGNORE IT.

Well that's kind of what we're trying to avoid here. Fanboys want critics to ignore baseless praise, critics want moderates to ignore unfounded criticism. Both stances help debates get exactly nowhere.

 

[Vegeta897]

You're STILL missing the point. You're still only looking at a single piece of the pie. You say it fails because of sales? How about read what I've said numerous times in this thread, it will hit its prime LATER.

Any console that will reach a good sales period (Just because PS3 didn't at launch doesn't mean it NEVER will) is not a "complete" failure.

 

[Cole]

Well that's kind of what we're trying to avoid here. Fanboys want critics to ignore baseless praise, critics want moderates to ignore unfounded criticism. Both stances help debates get exactly nowhere.

This debate isn't going anywhere because it's nonsense. Of course the Ps3 is not a complete failure, but Vegeta shouldn't make such a big deal out of it. Let the silly thread go as it will.


Vegeta.......

Complete Failure = Ps3
Complete Awesomeness = Wii
Complete Competitiveness = 360+Live
God = Munro
Shopping with girls = Shooting yourself in head and not killing yourself​

 

[Stigmata]

We're almost in an Internet fight over the semantics of the word "complete". I fear for the future.

 

[Cole]

We're almost in an Internet fight over the semantics of the word "complete". I fear for the future.

You haven't been on the internet that long I see. It's always been like this.

 

[Stigmata]

You haven't been on the internet that long I see. It's always been like this.

Nah, I've just been afraid ever since I set foot on the interbutts.

 

[smwScott]

Stigmata, first of all thanks for giving a good response to my post.

The only point we really seem to disagree about is the online. I've used both, and I have to say that while X-BOX Live is better, it's not worth the cost. I have never had a problem with matchmaking, lag, or anything else. The browser works well for watching streaming television shows, which is about all I've used it for. I haven't tried the friends thing but I assume it works fine too. It works as good as it can. There are features missing such as achievements, gamerscore, player rank (or any kind of ladder unless the developer hosts them), but that stuff doesn't really matter much to me. I don't play console games online very much and it's not something I'd be willing to pay extra for ... so for me the difference between the 360 and PS3 is one console lets you play online games and the other doesn't. I'm apparently not the only one who feels this way, as the number of Live subscribers is significantly less than the number of sold consoles ... none of those people get to play games online, everyone with a PS3 can.

However, I guess if you're really into competitive online gaming ... well you should just get a PC. But if not that then a 360 would be your best choice of the consoles.

For the last point about Blu-Ray, apparently Kojima said that there's a lot of things that can be done with sound that easily fill it past the 25GB mark. It's in a 1up broadcast. I also find this hard to believe, but I guess we'll find out. This specifically may be a case of "well it's there, might as well use it", but when you have PS2 games filling up dual layered DVDs you know it's only a matter of time before switching discs becomes the standard on the 360.