Games that everyone loved, and you didn't.

Okay, so Bungie ran out of creativity, and I can relate to that with what Bungie said Halo 2 would be and have and then after release, it didn't have any of what they said. But it does fit as architecture as what the Forerunners will of used. Go to any large company/corperation (this is a slightly difference case as the Forerunners are neither, but a large group of people who did whatever they did) and the places, say shops, will always look the same no matter what. Say the music shop HMV. I have been to at least 20 different HMV music stores and they have all look the same, albiet different sizes of room or whatever. It just fits.

Reading over what I've said, it may make no sense whatsoever, so bleh.

EDIT: Oh yeah, the shotgun and the magnum are beastie weapons. I used them all the time. Well, the magnum more so on things like a posion zombie or a Antlion Guard, same with the secondary fire of the AR2. I didn't use the secondary shotgun fire much, mind.
 
Warbie said:
It's here that my immersion becomes shattered and Gordon transforms into 'generic hero x'. Once that happens atmosphere and detail fail to matter.
Click to expand...

But thats just it. You don't know what you are doing, that is how you are supposed to feel. You are thrown into a world you do not understand, but the characters expect you to understand. That is the key to it. You piece things together as you go, and you start to realise and understand quite what is happening. You are out of the loop - but the characters don't know that.

Also, calling Cubbage a dads army reject is totally uncalled for. :p
 
You can't compare hl2 levels to halo's, in hl2 valve reused a lot of textures and props, in halo, they literally let you walk 30 times in to the exact same room consequtively.
 
Yes, they are very different, but the Citadel is a very repetative place, it just has things thrown onto it to keep you amused. Like you said; props. And yes, it works very well, as I love playing through the Citadel to ride on the caskets to the top. But behind that is a dark, dull material that is all around the place. I have no problem with this, none at all, as like I said: I enjoy both games and both enviroments/areas.

The Citadel had all the reason for those 'props' to be there. It was the Combines 'war factory' of sorts as well as other purposes and all that stuff was there for a reason. The Forerunner rooms are just normal rooms, and the Covenant ship is a battleship, its corridors need to be open, spacey and none-caring for things that make people go ''Oooo! That looks nice!'' Like I said, if you've ever been aboard a real working battleship you'll see for yourself.
 
TheAntipop said:
Yes, they are very different, but the Citadel is a very repetative place, it just has things thrown onto it to keep you amused. Like you said; props. And yes, it works very well, as I love playing through the Citadel to ride on the caskets to the top. But behind that is a dark, dull material that is all around the place. I have no problem with this, none at all, as like I said: I enjoy both games and both enviroments/areas.

The Citadel had all the reason for those 'props' to be there. It was the Combines 'war factory' of sorts as well as other purposes and all that stuff was there for a reason. The Forerunner rooms are just normal rooms, and the Covenant ship is a battleship, its corridors need to be open, spacey and none-caring for things that make people go ''Oooo! That looks nice!'' Like I said, if you've ever been aboard a real working battleship you'll see for yourself.
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Well I'll just trust you on that ;)
 
:| Can we get back on topic?
Kill the HL vs Halo debate. D:
 
Of course. I was just putting my two cents forward.

A game that everyone seems to love but I could never get into is Splinter Cell. I'm all for MGS and its stealth, but I just didn't enjoy SC.

All those old games, too. Like SNES games and stuff. Everyone makes such a deal over them, and I don't mean people that actually grew up with them. Retro gaming is a sudden big fashion now. :|
 
TheAntipop said:
The Forerunner rooms are just normal rooms, and the Covenant ship is a battleship, its corridors need to be open, spacey and none-caring for things that make people go ''Oooo! That looks nice!'' Like I said, if you've ever been aboard a real working battleship you'll see for yourself.
Click to expand...

It's realistic, but it's terrible for a game. Just like realistic gun jamming, getting dust in your eye or tripping in games. It's realistic, but it ruins the game. Halo's level design ruined the game for me.

btw, why are people saying Combine soldiers don't flinch when shot? There is a completely obvious flinch when you shoot them. I even spawned one in Garry's mod just now to make sure I wasn't wrong, he clearly flinched when I shot him.
 
Samon said:
But thats just it. You don't know what you are doing, that is how you are supposed to feel. You are thrown into a world you do not understand, but the characters expect you to understand. That is the key to it. You piece things together as you go, and you start to realise and understand quite what is happening. You are out of the loop - but the characters don't know that.

Also, calling Cubbage a dads army reject is totally uncalled for. :p
Click to expand...

The fact that Gordon can't/doesn't speak only adds fuel to the fire for the lack of immersion for me in this aspect. Yes you're out of the loop and everybody around you has no idea of your interactions with the G-man so they assume you're caught up...but that's when it stops making sense. The player is supposed to feel like Gordon Freeman. The fact that Gordon has no dialogue both lends and takes away from this.

I don't know about you guys...but the first things that would come out of my mouth would be "WTF G-MAN!" and "WTF IS GOING ON?!" It's unnatural to just "go with the flow" when we're supposed to be taking the role of an MIT-grad theoretical physicist turned unexpected hero/soldier...
 
Actually, I think if you listen carefully to certain characters you'll see they know more about your contract with the Gman than they let on.
 
ElFuhrer said:
It's realistic, but it's terrible for a game. Just like realistic gun jamming, getting dust in your eye or tripping in games. It's realistic, but it ruins the game. Halo's level design ruined the game for me.

btw, why are people saying Combine soldiers don't flinch when shot? There is a completely obvious flinch when you shoot them. I even spawned one in Garry's mod just now to make sure I wasn't wrong, he clearly flinched when I shot him.
Click to expand...

This made me laugh out loud, you shouldn't take them literally. It was an hyperbole, but they do certainly believe enemies don't react properly in this game.

TheAntipop said:
http://hmsbelfast.iwm.org.uk/

Zing.
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Several degrees of Awsome
 
I think we're getting confused when it comes to level repetition. Any game is going to have repetition to some degree.

But while the Citadel in HL2 may have been "samey" in its look, it did not repeat massive sections over and over again like, for instance, the Library in Halo 2. Just the same, its ending didn't take you back to the same god damn level you started.

ADDED: I will concede that the Half-Life series is in some serious need of some exposition. I mean, I like speculation. Speculation is fun, especially when you've got such cool material to work with. But it's time for some actual in-game info as opposed to Valve emails, Raising the Bar excerpts, and assumed implications. We know the Combine had a relationship with Xen, but it's unknown to what extent and what exactly it involved. It's pretty much accepted that the death of Nihilanth caused the portal storms, but I've never heard such confirmation in-game.
I trust Valve will address this and other niggling little bits of the plot in the future. But as of now, some real information is required to flesh the whole thing out.
 
Gray Fox said:
This made me laugh out loud, you shouldn't take them literally. It was an hyperbole, but they do certainly believe enemies don't react properly in this game.
Click to expand...

Really?

Enemies don't react to being shot - there's no flinch, no squeal of pain, nothing to indicate bullets are thudding into them - which is a pet hate of mine.
Click to expand...

That's pretty literal, don't you think?
 
Absinthe said:
We know the Combine had a relationship with Xen, but it's unknown to what extent and what exactly it involved. .
.
Click to expand...

Well, I think we know for certain now that the Nihilanth, and all creatures on Xen (which in turn, are not native to Xen) were once slaves to the Combine, fled, found their way to the border world and were pretty much backed up against a wall.
 
Yes, we pretty much know that. But it's all been through collected bits and pieces.

I don't want to be spoonfed the story. But I would like there to be a moment in the series where I can say "Aha! I was right!" and then pat myself on the back like a tool. A moment where there can no longer be any doubt cast on a particular facet of the overarching plot.
 
ElFuhrer said:
That's pretty literal, don't you think?
Click to expand...

Ok, so there's the occasional, and very minor, piece of feedback. The results are still tame, and it still doesn't look or feel as though the enemy are being shot.

The most satisfying kill i've made in a fps was in Perfect Dark - a silenced pistol shot through a tiny window in a door hit a guard right in the face. His head jerked back and smacked into the wall behind as he collapsed in a heap. Seconds later another guard, alerted by the noise, comes running up to the body, kneels down and cries, 'he was my best friend'! A second shot hit him right in the neck. Vainly clutching at the wound and gurgling he slowly slumps out of view and i'm left looking at two tiny bullet holes in the window.

For the time (i'll be the first to admit PD looks very dated now) this was uber empowering stuff. I actually felt a little guilty it was that viscious - how's that for immersion?

And this is an old game - things could/should be so much better in the fps we play today. A healthy mix of hit/death animations, ragdolls, and scripted dialogue would make all the difference.
 
oh, another one, I really hated perfect dark. I think it was because I didn't play it for very long, but I rented it, played around with it and said, "wow this is just a shitty remake of goldeneye" and returned it. I think it might have also been due to the fact that I was like 10 at the time.
 
I did not like Silent Hill. To me it was eh kinda scary but not like piss your self scary. Also I found it was to detailed, like all of the puzzles and everything.
 
Halo - Repeating levels then half way though you go back again backwards.
Doom 3 - I forced myself to play this till i couldn't take the boredom anymore.
Zelda - Just don't like it.
Tomb raiders - Getting really boring and awfull controls
Metel gear solid 3 snake eater - Most of it were movies poor movies at that.
Flight Simulator - I failed to see any fun in that and it seems to easy to fly a plane.
Mario - God damn i hate it save the damn princess once again with a fat plumer.
 
theotherguy said:
oh, another one, I really hated perfect dark. I think it was because I didn't play it for very long, but I rented it, played around with it and said, "wow this is just a shitty remake of goldeneye" and returned it. I think it might have also been due to the fact that I was like 10 at the time.
Click to expand...

D:
 
Warbie said:
Ok, so there's the occasional, and very minor, piece of feedback. The results are still tame, and it still doesn't look or feel as though the enemy are being shot.

The most satisfying kill i've made in a fps was in Perfect Dark - a silenced pistol shot through a tiny window in a door hit a guard right in the face. His head jerked back and smacked into the wall behind as he collapsed in a heap. Seconds later another guard, alerted by the noise, comes running up to the body, kneels down and cries, 'he was my best friend'! A second shot hit him right in the neck. Vainly clutching at the wound and gurgling he slowly slumps out of view and i'm left looking at two tiny bullet holes in the window.

For the time (i'll be the first to admit PD looks very dated now) this was uber empowering stuff. I actually felt a little guilty it was that viscious - how's that for immersion?

And this is an old game - things could/should be so much better in the fps we play today. A healthy mix of hit/death animations, ragdolls, and scripted dialogue would make all the difference.
Click to expand...

Fuppin' A. Perfect Dark had some awesome deaths. Standing behind a wall and peppering it with machine gun fire only to step into the room behind and see a guy on his knees clutching at his neck as blood stained the wall behind him, another guy slumped forward at a desk, blood splattered over the keyboard and screen and another guy lying on the floor, still moving slihgtly before eventually dieing. More games need to have good death animations like Perfect Dark. I think my playing of HL2 would of been even more better had soldiers done stuff like that.
 
The 360 version is horrible, but PD was amazing, even if it was very similar to Goldeneye (Rare even reused some of the animations)
 
OT: Good lord Ennui, WHY oh WHY do you have an Alice in Wonderland quote in your sig while I'm procrastinating on my paper on it. >___<
 
Oblivion. Definately Oblivion. On release day there was a slew of glowing near 100% reviews and Oblivion was being touted as one of the greatest RPGs ever made already. The amount of positive press and feedback was pretty sensational.

Naturally, I bought it the second day. And yes I had a blast at first. Well, for about the first few hours. Until I noticed the existance of scaling loot and monster system. For a game about exploration there sure isn't really reason to explore in Oblivion. Oh, and the combat is garbage. I actually would prefer Morrowind combat, as bad as it is, simply because it is less tedious.

But, yeah, Oblivon = overrated to hell and back. Maybe if less money had been spent on the voice acting and more had been spent on creating a actual content within the game world it would've been better.
 
Leviticus said:
Oblivion. Definately Oblivion. On release day there was a slew of glowing near 100% reviews and Oblivion was being touted as one of the greatest RPGs ever made already. The amount of positive press and feedback was pretty sensational.

Naturally, I bought it the second day. And yes I had a blast at first. Well, for about the first few hours. Until I noticed the existance of scaling loot and monster system. For a game about exploration there sure isn't really reason to explore in Oblivion. Oh, and the combat is garbage. I actually would prefer Morrowind combat, as bad as it is, simply because it is less tedious.

But, yeah, Oblivon = overrated to hell and back. Maybe if less money had been spent on the voice acting and more had been spent on creating a actual content within the game world it would've been better.
Click to expand...

I think everyone agrees with you on that :|

Oblivion and Doom 3 both released with stunning reviews, but after the dust settled we all realized that they were both highly overrated. At last check of all the people I know who had bought Oblivion, very few were still playing.
 
SixThree said:
I think everyone agrees with you on that :|

Oblivion and Doom 3 both released with stunning reviews, but after the dust settled we all realized that they were both highly overrated. At last check of all the people I know who had bought Oblivion, very few were still playing.
Click to expand...

Seconded. I woulnd't say they suck,but after a couple of hours, they er...do.:cheese:
 
Warbie said:
Anyhoo, it doesn't seem that we disagree on much, just that we look for different things in a fps. Oh, the vehicle sections are poo!
Click to expand...

Thats another thing isn't it, I loved them! Perhaps the Airboat more so. Brilliant pacing.

I enjoyed Oblivion, but it certainly didn't deserve the amount of attention and praise it got. I found the world a little too bland, it was simply forests and a couple of ice caps - but nothing inhabiting them, bar the occasional wolf. No areas where I though ohh, better not go down there.
No real interesting place. Nothing out of the ordinary. Which was lame. And besides, you couldn't define your character in any way, shape or form.

Also, Perfect dark 0 is shitty.
 
Samon said:
Thats another thing isn't it, I loved them! Perhaps the Airboat more so. Brilliant pacing.

I enjoyed Oblivion, but it certainly didn't deserve the amount of attention and praise it got. I found the world a little too bland, it was simply forests and a couple of ice caps - but nothing inhabiting them, bar the occasional wolf. No areas where I though ohh, better not go down there.
No real interesting place. Nothing out of the ordinary. Which was lame. And besides, you couldn't define your character in any way, shape or form.

Also, Perfect dark 0 is shitty.
Click to expand...

See I thought the airboat in general would've been a LOT better if it handled like a real airboat and actuall drifted rather than turned on a dime.

Oblivion was very overrated but I still got 60 hours out of it before getting bored. That's fine by me. I disliked it for the same reasons you did. No fun to explore when you can win every fight. No unique environments. Mostly empty wilderness. World-wide scaling is death to an RPG game.

The only reason it got so much attention is it gave most gamers what they have wet dreams about, graphics and open-endedness (even if it's not all it's cracked up to be).
 
For Oblivion, I'm taking a completely new approach to it. Just after I got out of the chargen dungeon, I hacked a lot of equipment, generally traveler's stuff (food, reasonably nice clothing, and basic utilities like knives and forks), and then just wandered the Earth. I don't bother going down into dungeons, whenever I meet an enemy I just hit ~, click on him, and type in "kill", and watch ragdoll create hilarious and improbable death positions.

I'm actually enjoying it. I stopped in Skingrad, and used it as a base to explore the West Weald. I did the Glarthir quest, snooped around, and am now orchestrating an attempt to break into Skingrad Castle to investigate all these rumors about Count Hassildor. (I know he's a vampire, but my CHARACTER doesn't!)

I even met the necrophile alchemist, and bought ingredients from her shop, which I then combined with my leet alchemy skills into a murderous potion. That night I then broke into her house and slew her in her sleep with my poisoned blade. I returned to my own bed at Rosethorn Hall, well pleased that I had rid the world of a filthy pervert, only to be visited by Lucien Lachance. I tried to explain why I murdered that foul bitch but he wouldn't hear of it. I intend to move west to Anvil after I wrap up my affairs here in Skingrad, in the opposite direction of the Inn of Ill Omen.
 
Ennui said:
The 360 version is horrible, but PD was amazing, even if it was very similar to Goldeneye (Rare even reused some of the animations)
Click to expand...

PD was better than Goldeneye in a lot of ways, IMO. But yeah, the 360 version was tripe, even the Co-Op mode sucked.
 
PD did improve on Goldeneye, I agree... it was still mostly a remake though
 
Wowzers, this is my first big thread. :D

Mostly a debate-fest though.
 
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