Gordon Freeman is a bumbling idiot

[lastHOPE_lambda]

Gordon bashers.
He really isn't an idiot cause an idiot couldn't cause the amazing trouble he always seems to cause. I mean gordon is like frickin unstopable. He does what he wants and gets it done, and has anyone thought that gordon, maybe just maybe isn't out there to do what is best for humanity but doing what is best for him. If thats true then hes a frickin genuis for sure!
I mean look he got rid of lazlo, made himself in to a messaianic figure, is consdered a hero amung the people....and so on and so on.

 

[15357]

That guy from GTA3 Chatterbox radio.

Gordon is more of a victim than a crazy nutjob moron George Bush (thinks what he is doing is right but couldn't be more wrong).

Nooo, he is an evil dissidant, threatening the continued prosperity and survival of the entire human race!

 

[Sulkdodds]

Draining the seas, amnesia-water, reproduction suppression, brutal beatings, resource-stripping, stalkerisation and total oppression = prosperity? D:

 

[15357]

Draining the seas, amnesia-water, reproduction suppression, brutal beatings, resource-stripping, stalkerisation and total oppression = prosperity? D:

Theres always some growing pains, you know. :E

 

[Asknoone]

Well put darkside, i bet that if gordon was set up by the gman to help the combine he would still think he would be doing the right thing in killing the rebels, its all in the manner in which the g-man manipulates things.

It is doubtful Gordon would go that far, infact, no, he wouldn't. Gman purposely places Gordon in a situation where he is surrounded by familiar faces, and therefore feels the need to fight alongside them.
Gman couldn't evoke that response from the Combine.

 

[Rizzo]

But wtf! GTA3? yeah right, and a evil dissidant? When the hell do you meet this lazlo guy and let him get chopped by antlions?

 

[Loke]

When the hell do you meet this lazlo guy and let him get chopped by antlions?

After the fight at the lighthouse in the 'Sandtraps'-chapter. You come across Laszlo and his friend that shout "Hey you stay on the rocks! Do not step on the sand! It'll make the Antlions crazy!" (can't remember exactly but something along those lines).

 

[Rizzo]

Ok, now i know. And that guy dies, i lobed a granede at him. Great.

 

[Asknoone]

Yeah, because that'd hurt him anyway...

 

[Rizzo]

No... But he was surounded by antlions and when i blow it up... he flew away.
It was my faoult.

 

[Digamma]

:O :O :O
You blew up Lazlo? You horrible person! He was the finest mind of his generation!!! lol j/k

 

[TheGMan.]

- Manages to put the Combine citadel on full alert, causing a city-wide manhunt that kills numerous rebels and unaffiliated civilians

- Gets Dr. Eli Vance and his daughter captured

- Fails to save Laszlo

- Leads hero-struck resistance members to their deaths

- (Presumably) Kills the one man who could've bartered for humanity's salvation

- Blows up the citadel

Seperate reality from video games, for gods sake. It's not like he wanted to, in HL1 it was either death or work for the G-Man... hmmm. It's not like you can make Gordon Freeman be a combine soldier, or just kill himself (and end the game). Jesus Christ.


Also, Doctor Mossman got Dr. Eli Vance and his daughter caught, not Gordon Freeman


Let myself a big LOL for lack of humour.

 

[Jintor]

Look out for sarcasm, G-man!

 

[Darkside55]

Seperate reality from video games, for gods sake. It's not like he wanted to, in HL1 it was either death or work for the G-Man... hmmm. It's not like you can make Gordon Freeman be a combine soldier, or just kill himself (and end the game). Jesus Christ.

Grow a sense of humor, for God's sake. I really hate when people say, "separate games from reality." Listen, no one here believes the games are real. No one's looking out their windows expecting to see a citadel, no one's checking over their shoulders every paragraph to make sure a headcrab's sneaking up on them, and no one's wearing a tinfoil hat because they think the G-man can hear their thoughts. What, were you under the assumption that I thought Gordon was a living being and is out there causing disaster? You're the one who deserves the big LOL if so.

Listen, you seem to be a relatively new poster here so I'm going to let you in on some helpful advice. First of all, you're in Singleplayer Mythology. This is a place where we discuss everything from Half-Life's characters to weaponry, to headcrab anatomy and bullsquid mating rituals. It can be even worse in rumors and speculation, where people try to make actual sense of things like teleporter technology and just what Xen's atmosphere is made of. If you don't want to hear people discussing a game world as if it were plausible, these are definately NOT the forums you should be visiting. As I said though, no one's believing any of this stuff is real, it's just a fanbase that's interested in the game's universe and some people want to flesh it out and try to make working sense of it all. That's how ALL fanbases for sci-fi or fantasy or...what-have-you genres are. If you don't like it, skip over it, simple as that. As for me, I'm going to continue to poke some lighthearted (but factual!) fun at Half-Life's protagonist.

Also, Doctor Mossman got Dr. Eli Vance and his daughter caught, not Gordon Freeman

Did you happen to read this post in the thread where I stated very clearly how Gordon Freeman was responsible, and also linked to another thread that talks in-depth about how it was Gordon Freeman's fault? Go back and read it again.

And don't dis Laszlo. Laszlo > you.

While you could say that Gordon is fundamentally well-meaning and that it's hard to see what you could do differently in his place, he's also content to sit back and be a pawn of disruption and destruction for what is obviously a very sinister figure. Every time Gordon experiences triumph it seems to bring an even bigger disaster waiting in the wings... Maybe how much of a bumbling idiot Gordon is depends on how conscientious he feels about the bad consequences which arise from his actions.

The problem is that I think he DOES feel compelled to repent for his past actions, which leads to even worse situations. Gordon's initial mistake, pushing the sample into the anti-mass spectrometer, was not really his fault. And yet, he was compelled by his conscience to fix the problem by killing the Nihilanth, which lead to the BIGGER problem of the Combine. Upon arriving in City 17, he sees what his actions have done, and with only a little persuasion from his colleagues he sets out to atone for putting humanity in this state. But to do that...he decides the best thing to do is blow up the citadel, which now leads to the necessary evacuation of City 17. It's a vicious cycle. I think his first course of business should be to STOP KILLING THE END BOSS. He can work on the rest from there.

It is doubtful Gordon would go that far, infact, no, he wouldn't. Gman purposely places Gordon in a situation where he is surrounded by familiar faces, and therefore feels the need to fight alongside them.
Gman couldn't evoke that response from the Combine.

While I'm inclined to agree with you, it's possible that if the G-man were to put him into City 17 on the Combine's side and NOT arrange for him to meet up with his friends (so that he wouldn't even know they were in City 17), he might've gotten Gordon to work for the Combine. As impressionable as Gordon is, and with his aforementioned want to fix his mistakes and help humanity, it'd just be a matter of appealing to him that the Combine is the right way to go. I can see it happening quite easily, actually.

 

[lastHOPE_lambda]

Common now you guys don't really think gordon is that stupid do you!? The minute Gordon saw a citizen being beaten he would have gone against the combine. I mean there is no way I could see gordon turning a blind eye to the beatings, killings, tourturing, and so on.
But then again maybe Gordon has no will. Maybe he was completely brocken after the events of hl. Now he wonders the earth for breif time spans too disturbed to talk or even think for himself, following the whims of the G-Man and killing just to cover the imense pain he has bottled up inside himself. Personally I don't belive this at all but just putting it out there.

 

[Darkside55]

You keep Gordon away from that stuff and he'll work for the Combine. Make it so that he never saw the "real" streets of City 17, put him away somewhere in the citadel or Nova Prospekt to work on the teleporter, and he'd do it.

 

[UltimaApocalypse]

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[_Z_Ryuken]

When I went through HL2, and more recently HL1, I had no idea what was going on so I just listened to what all the characters said. I thought I would do good by following the advice of whom appeared to be my allies.

I think it's the same for Gordon. He's is acting on the will of the people.

 

[Flyingdebris]

The minute Gordon saw a citizen being beaten he would have gone against the combine. I mean there is no way I could see gordon turning a blind eye to the beatings, killings, tourturing, and so on.

Do you take up a crowbar against the entire government the second a cop beats a guy?

For all we know the first guy we see beaten in hl2 may have been provoking the metro.

You know, having just read a whole bunch of warhammer 40k novels i learned something interesting. To survive in a galaxy full of demons, aliens, mutants, and thirsting gods, humanity's Imperium pretty much has to become nasty and oppressive just to survive. Any sort of weakness or leeway on humanity's part almost instantly gets exploited and entire planets die.

It seems like thats the case in hl2. In order to survive, humanity's government has had to become nasty and oppressive in order to survive. So yeah Gordon won a short sighted victory against the those working for the combine. But what happens when the combine tire of these upstart humans? they probably won't even bother trying to enslave us the second time around.

 

[Darkside55]

It seems like thats the case in hl2. In order to survive, humanity's government has had to become nasty and oppressive in order to survive. So yeah Gordon won a short sighted victory against the those working for the combine. But what happens when the combine tire of these upstart humans? they probably won't even bother trying to enslave us the second time around.

Quoted. For. Emphasis.

All throughout this thread I've been thinking, Gordon's drawn the ire of an enemy force that is far too strong. When the Combine decide to do something, and they will, it will be over for us. We don't even have the resources to mount a one-hour war against them.



Although, I'm going to break the Gordon-bashing for a moment, and let me just say I'm thrilling at the prospect of the Combine coming back in full-force, and Gordon Freeman stopping them. I'm hyping myself up here.

 

[Laivasse]

The problem is that I think he DOES feel compelled to repent for his past actions, which leads to even worse situations. Gordon's initial mistake, pushing the sample into the anti-mass spectrometer, was not really his fault. And yet, he was compelled by his conscience to fix the problem by killing the Nihilanth, which lead to the BIGGER problem of the Combine. Upon arriving in City 17, he sees what his actions have done, and with only a little persuasion from his colleagues he sets out to atone for putting humanity in this state. But to do that...he decides the best thing to do is blow up the citadel, which now leads to the necessary evacuation of City 17. It's a vicious cycle.

Hmm, interesting. I've never really thought about him as doing anything other than fighting for enough breathing space to have a nice cup of tea.

Another possibility is that he feels indignant about being at ground zero and being blamed for it all, when in fact he knows he did nothing to bring about the RC. He might have the mindset of a valiant crusader trying to set the world to rights, while he's actually doing the equivalent of hitting a broken TV with a lead pipe until it starts working again.

I think his first course of business should be to STOP KILLING THE END BOSS. He can work on the rest from there.

QFT. Have a shave, dye his hair, take off the glasses so maybe he can move around for 5 minutes without someone shouting "ZOMG FRIEDMAN, SAVE US ALL LOL", and then he can maybe finally get a handle on events.

All throughout this thread I've been thinking, Gordon's drawn the ire of an enemy force that is far too strong. When the Combine decide to do something, and they will, it will be over for us. We don't even have the resources to mount a one-hour war against them.

QFT again - for me it seemed like the Combine still had enough strength left even in C17 alone to flatten us, just that they're slow to fully wake. But this is kind of what I like about Freeman. While there's a lot to be said for the softly softly catchee monky approach, I also admire the type of man who, upon seeing the might of an intergalactic humanity-mincer arrayed against him, starts shooting people in the face.

 

[Jintor]

Last post = +10 1337 5k1llz.

Technically, Freeman has no free will, because he is controlled by the player. But, assuming that all the moves that the player makes is actually what Gordon himself would do, then it is fairly obvious to me that he does not really have free will. I suppose the sort of way which the game is made and directed to become (during production) forces the developers into this sorta position.

So that we empathise more with Freeman, so that we feel like Freeman, they give him no dicernable character beyond what actions that the player makes Freeman better. Because he has no character, he has no free will. Or he does. I don't know. Damnit, i'm rambling. I'll think this through later, when I've stopped watching anime.

 

[lastHOPE_lambda]

Do you take up a crowbar against the entire government the second a cop beats a guy?

For all we know the first guy we see beaten in hl2 may have been provoking the metro.

Maybe the first one but how about the second,third fourth, fifth, sixth.......
and yes I would take a crowbar against my goverment if I saw dead and tourtured corpses everywhere. Expesially when said corpses always seem to turn up in the interogation rooms of the combine!
But I'll try to see this from your perspective. Ok say instead of fighting the good fight where there is a great chance I'll die, but it would be a fast painless death, and being a hero like good old noble Freeman. You want me to be a coward, be striped of my humanity and die a slow and horrible death?

 

[Rizzo]

Gordon is a stone cold killer. He has supressed his fellings to kill more effective. But hes still a good guy. But he dosent realy gives it a second thought when watching some people die.
Hes like Bond.

 

[15357]

Gordon is a stone cold killer. He has supressed his fellings to kill more effective. But hes still a good guy. But he dosent realy gives it a second thought when watching some people die.
Hes like Bond.

I... what?

It is like GTA, in the sense that you kill law enforcement officers who are doing their duty to preserve mankind.

 

[Flyingdebris]

ah but don't you see, the combine have to kill the rebels and oppress the crap out of humanity. Otherwise the combine overlords will just swoop in with their unlimited supply of synths and energy weapons and annihilate us. Its a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. Everyone is either oppressor, oppressed, Gordon Freeman, or dead, in the hl2 setting.

 

[Max35]

I think Gordon is intentionally flawed. hl has avoided cliches thus far, and it won't start with Gordon. He's not some heroic badass that makes all the right decisions all the time. He's a gifted killer, with impaired judgement skills. But the judgement is left to the gman. He approves of what Gordon has done at the end of hl2 it seems "you have accomplished much in a small time span." Gman placed Gordon in C17 for one reason, and one reason only. To eliminate Breen (his power to command, anyway), collasping the administration, he didn't send Gordon there to be an ambassador obviously. Gordon acts on instinct, the gman is supposedly the evolved being steering Gordon in the right direction.

And what if Gordon had let Breen escape into the Combine homeworld?, who knows what would happen.

 

[Rizzo]

Yeah, that G-man sent him to destroy breen is obvious. And i agree with you.
But i realy imagine Gordon to have a rock face most of the time. like on the pictures, head tilt slithly forward. Cool, emotionless expression. But maybee a smile now and then. Like when blowing the crap out of a combine or listening to Alyx talk.

And hes not a fool. Hes Crazy!

 

[Asknoone]

Gman very clearly did not send Gordon to kill Breen.

 

[Rizzo]

No but to destroy the combine citadel... Im just tired and dont want to type so much.

 

[Langolier]

I don't see how Freeman has poor judgement at all.

He is never given much of a choice in his actions; it always winds down to live or die, and he chooses life. He's human, that's what rational humans do.

There's no justification for what Breen is doing. Either way humanity as we know it is going to go extinct. I don't know about you, and I don't know about Freeman, but I'd rather go extinct fighting for self-preservation than 'continue' on as a shambling monstrosity in some dank alien fortress somewhere, robbed of my humanity.

It's obvious the Combine is comitting genocide. They're not using gas chambers or ovens, they're doing it more gradually. Each rebel, citizen, or CP officer killed isn't going to be replaced very easily because no new people are being born. Yet the Combine certainly doesn't hesitate to "Deservice" people.

 

[lastHOPE_lambda]

I agree with langolier. Gordon is'nt wrong at all to want to fight something as oppressive as the combine and we are dieing either way so why not go ahead and fight them? can anyone give a good answer?

 

[TheGMan.]

Darkside555,

free*will adj : VOLUNTARY


Yeah, sadly, that wasn't in HL2. So... how could you possibly say Gordon is a dumbass when he's basically forced to do everything?

 

[Wolfxi]

Wow, talk about a intense HL2 thread...Havent seen something like this since the time there was that huge thread about the G-Man sightings...

 

[Jintor]

Or the Combine were on Xen thread.

 

[Laivasse]

Darkside555,

free*will adj : VOLUNTARY


Yeah, sadly, that wasn't in HL2. So... how could you possibly say Gordon is a dumbass when he's basically forced to do everything?

I don't think some people are really getting this. We ALL KNOW HL2 was a game, and that you're steered and you have to kill the end boss and you have to complete the game.

But transpose HL2 to a real-world situation and imagine that there are other ways it could have gone, and then consider whether or not the course of events that Gordon took in HL2 was the best he could have done, and if it was, whether there was nevertheless anything bad about it.

As for why Gordon wouldn't or shouldn't fight the Combine:
(to reiterate what's already been said for those who want it in biscuit form)
1) You don't know who you're fighting for. The rebels, you say? Humanity, you say? Really? Then who's that mysterious guy in a suit? Looks a lot like Mother Theresa, does he? Really looks like he has everyone's best interests at heart, does he?

2) You don't know what's going to happen if you lose. Well, actually you can get a very good idea of what would happen - mankind would pay in blood for your belligerence. Imagine what happens to the rest of humanity if Gordon dies halfway through HL2. Maybe you say that death is better than life under the Combine, but can one man make that choice for the whole of humanity?

3) You don't know what's going to happen if you 'win'. For a start how can you 'win' in the final sense of the word? One of the very first things you see is a departures board listing a ton of other cities, so can a victory by bullets really be possible against something that's always going to have ten times the manpower you just wiped out? Even if we take it that Gordon 'won' by destroying the reactor, what's going to happen now? A city full of people may well be wiped out. We have no idea if this has significantly affected the Combine's control of earth in any way.


If we're going to get down to brass tacks, of course there was little other that Gordon could do but fight, but it's fun to think about there being shades of grey/recklessness to his actions. Maybe it would have been better to focus more energy on figuring out the why's and wherefores, maybe he should have treated Gman as his target instead of the Combine, etc. Max35 is right (apart from the bit about killing Breen) in that Gordon isn't just some cliched whiter-than-white action hero who can do no wrong.

Here's something else to think about:
Gordon can speak. We know this because he gives commands to rebels, and can initiate 'conversation' with peeps in the beginning of HL1 and 2. If he can speak, what might his motive be for not spilling the beans about Gman to his allies?

I reckon he sees it somehow as something that must be investigated on his own (although he's a pretty poor investigator), due to his personal history in the matter. Maybe he fears ridicule from his friends should he mention some dimension-warping guy in a suit who kidnapped him for 10 years - after all these are stressful times and Gordon's a quiet guy who kills lots of people so it would be only reasonable to assume he's gone f*cking nuts.

Either that or he doesn't fully trust his friends. After all, Gman wakes him up on the other side of the world and then he runs straight into his allies - maybe Gordon suspects they are in collusion somehow, and wants to keep his cards close to his chest.

 

[lastHOPE_lambda]

I don't think some people are really getting this. We ALL KNOW HL2 was a game, and that you're steered and you have to kill the end boss and you have to complete the game.

But transpose HL2 to a real-world situation and imagine that there are other ways it could have gone, and then consider whether or not the course of events that Gordon took in HL2 was the best he could have done, and if it was, whether there was nevertheless anything bad about it.

As for why Gordon wouldn't or shouldn't fight the Combine:
(to reiterate what's already been said for those who want it in biscuit form)
1) You don't know who you're fighting for. The rebels, you say? Humanity, you say? Really? Then who's that mysterious guy in a suit? Looks a lot like Mother Theresa, does he? Really looks like he has everyone's best interests at heart, does he?

2) You don't know what's going to happen if you lose. Well, actually you can get a very good idea of what would happen - mankind would pay in blood for your belligerence. Imagine what happens to the rest of humanity if Gordon dies halfway through HL2. Maybe you say that death is better than life under the Combine, but can one man make that choice for the whole of humanity?

3) You don't know what's going to happen if you 'win'. For a start how can you 'win' in the final sense of the word? One of the very first things you see is a departures board listing a ton of other cities, so can a victory by bullets really be possible against something that's always going to have ten times the manpower you just wiped out? Even if we take it that Gordon 'won' by destroying the reactor, what's going to happen now? A city full of people may well be wiped out. We have no idea if this has significantly affected the Combine's control of earth in any way.


If we're going to get down to brass tacks, of course there was little other that Gordon could do but fight, but it's fun to think about there being shades of grey/recklessness to his actions. Maybe it would have been better to focus more energy on figuring out the why's and wherefores, maybe he should have treated Gman as his target instead of the Combine, etc. Max35 is right (apart from the bit about killing Breen) in that Gordon isn't just some cliched whiter-than-white action hero who can do no wrong.

Here's something else to think about:
Gordon can speak. We know this because he gives commands to rebels, and can initiate 'conversation' with peeps in the beginning of HL1 and 2. If he can speak, what might his motive be for not spilling the beans about Gman to his allies?

I reckon he sees it somehow as something that must be investigated on his own (although he's a pretty poor investigator), due to his personal history in the matter. Maybe he fears ridicule from his friends should he mention some dimension-warping guy in a suit who kidnapped him for 10 years - after all these are stressful times and Gordon's a quiet guy who kills lots of people so it would be only reasonable to assume he's gone f*cking nuts.

Either that or he doesn't fully trust his friends. After all, Gman wakes him up on the other side of the world and then he runs straight into his allies - maybe Gordon suspects they are in collusion somehow, and wants to keep his cards close to his chest.

1) You just have to hope G-man ultimately knows best, and besides if you go against G-man whats gonna happen...he'll stick you in a void for the rest of eternity!
2) Yes one man does have a right to make this choice because its "his choice"! No one had to follow freeman, and if freeman wanted to launch a suscide mission against the combine no one should have even cared because as long as no one helped him the combine would have just punished them the same amount as always. Besides he has the right to pursue happiness because no one has the right to take is freedom.
3)You don't, but that can also be a good thing.

And good point I geuss he can speak but I think the reason he keeps the G-man thing to himself as an advantage. I'll explain this futher if you want but I think most of you will understand.

 

[Jintor]

I think it's more intresting that Gordon is, ahem, 'up for the highest bidder', according to Dr. Breen. And that Alyx and Dr Vance both go 'Don't listen to him Gordon!". The ending conversations are probably the most intresting in the game, yes?

 

[Rizzo]

Intressting... And confusing...

 

[esplin]

I think the reasons for Gordon Freeman to oppose the Combine so strongly is best explained in raising the bar by the G-man.
"Ten years, Mr. Freeman. It won't seem that way to you, of course. But ten years is a long time. Long enough for humanity to swallow its pride and begin to accept a common fate. Long enough for your fellow man to develop callouses against the master's collar. Long enough for the first scars of whiplash to heal. Long enough to forget how things used to be."

"But you won't have forgotten Mr. Freeman. You still remember how the air used to taste. You remember how freedom felt. You remember....the sky."

Now I don't think Freeman's first reaction to City 17 was, "The Combine sucks, so I'm just going to blow up every CP between here and the Citadel." I think at first when he was in Dr. Kleiner's lab he was intending to help the Resistance in a more subtle way. Help with Research, maybe join a strike team.
Even Dr. Vance was under the assumption that Freeman would help him with the teleporter and other projects.
However, its clear when he agrees to help Alyx free her father that Gordon understands that he's the only one who stands a chance against the Combine.