HL : Source (Full Overhaul Modification)

Logic said:
Very nice suggestions Mechagodzilla. I absolutely, totally agree with this. I think Xen's original design should be maintained, rather than turning it into a biomechanical place, which would look entirely different.

Not totally different, really. many of Xen's creatures and technologies do have biomechanical aspects. However, they are not really biomechanical to the point of looking giger-ey, and Xen itself is entirely natural.

I was just playing though Half-Life: Source then, and I'm a fair way into Xen, and I've been noticing that many of the textures seem designed to create the effect that there are veins in\on the walls, as if the whole location is almost a plant-like lifeform, or more likely, a sort of life form that grows and spreads over large rocks. With source's technology, I think it's a good opportunity to take this idea even further, and have actual pumping veins on walls, or wrapped around certain parts of level geometry, to truly make the place feel alive.

That's the stuff I call the spongegrass, since it looks like a closeup of a loofah and covers the ground like grass. I dunno about it being veiney and pumping blood and stuff. It's very solid and can stand up to a grenade. I'd think it's more boney than anything.

I actually think the spongegrass may be one of the most important creatures in Half-Life though, and it's extremely important for anyone remaking Xen to understand it first.

Anyone who's played Starcraft for a while knows about the 'creep' that the Xerg create. It's a thick purple mat of biological material that slowly spreads out from a single point until it coats all the nearby terrain. It is then used as an a base and a source of fuel for the organic Xerg structures.

The spongegrass appear to be very much the same thing, really. You've probably already seen it's basic form but just haven't noticed it. In the later levels of Black Mesa, small flesh-coloured patches start growing on the asphault. I'm totally certain that those are the beginnings of a spongegrass field.
Once the spongegrass has spread out more, it also produces structures. Unlike the xerg though, they are pretty rudimentary. The stabbing tentacle arms, the "launch pads" and the holes in the ground that suddenly toss you hundreds of feet in the air. they're all part of the spongegrass.

The only explanation I've got is that the spongegrass that coats nearly every surface on Xen is actually a huge, mindless and invincible predator. It grows quickly, develops "limbs" and then stabs its prey to death, or tosses it into the air in an effort to break it's legs. Then, it waits for the corpse to decompose and absorbs it as fertiliser.
Since the entire Xen biospere is based on it, it must be the most important enemy in the game. It is Xen. :O

Perhaps the tentacle things (the brown ones that hit you) could be physically simulated to jiggle and sway, and smaller, similar things could hang from ceilings etc. There's really a lot that can be done to make Xen jaw dropping, without deviating from the intended look and feel of the location.

That's really true. If the light-bulb worms were made brighter, and if the purple laser-firing crystals were given more polys, and all sorts of minor changes, Xen would be vastly improved.
The number-one thing though, is the spongegrass. The way it grows, the biggest issue with making Xen work is to make it look like it is being coated in a thin blanket of boney veins. So, nearly the entire part of the geometry has to look like one single interconnected surface. Once that's done, everything else is a piece of cake.

Also, here's part 2 of Gonarch's Lair.
GonarchsLair2K5Part2.jpg


The only way to get this are to make any sense at all is to just generaly concede that the large rock floating in the center of the valley is giving off some sort of field that is repelling the other rocks and therefore holding the three spires aloft, and splitting up the ground beneath it. Spongegrass eventually filled in the smaller cracks, leaving a large pit and several smaller tunnels through the former fault lines.

This level should easily connect to Part 1, and maybe even having them partly visible from each-other would help give a greater sense of scale.

As the Xen levels progress, so does the suckiness of their designs. I didn't chnge much for "Xen" and the first part of Gonarch's Lair, because they are pretty solid designs. But after that, things start getting progressively worse until you reach the credits.

Part 2, one of the main things that needs fixing is the floating shard of rock. I'd bet that almost no-one reading this has ever noticed that rock. I didn't see it until the fifth time I played through the level. the main reason that no-one notices it is that the level itself is too clustered. The three pillars are pratically touching the rock, so it's not distinctive at all, and the level is so confined that the player's frame of vision never really gets up that high.
So, I moved the pillars further away from the rock, and straightened them slightly closer to parallel. Also, since they are the second most distinctive feature of the room, I made them more monolithic.

The third most important is the pit, and it's easy enough to repair. Just give it a good layer of spongegrass, and make the entire sections directly above and below each tunnel out of pure spongegrass. Make the rest stone, and you're set. Also, the pit could stand to be go slightly deeper before hitting space. The graphical crappiness of the underside of the island prevented you from being able to look up and see the island fall away as you fell, but with the graphics of today (or more specifically, of 2005-6 when this mod will be done) that effect would be very possible for every map.

Beside the largest pillar? Is that another ledge protected by invisible walls? 'Fraid so. Get rid of the barriers, I say.

And, since this section has the highest concentration of the spore pod thingys, I might as well say it here. They do have a slight animation where they pulsate a bit, but why not have them 'puff' when shot? That would be sweet.
 
good luck guys, I REALLY REALLY REALLY am looking forward to this.

Take your time, and do it WELL. :D I mean, the new barnacles looked SWEET in HL2, I want the same feeling from the bullsquids, and the gonarch, and the soldiers, etc...make this a GOOD update, not a quick one. :D
 
I have one question...

will I need HL source to play Black Mesa Source?

Since your changing everything, I think we should be able to just load it up so long as we have HL2 installed...make it a HL2 mod...
 
Or a new HL Steam Source-Engine powered mod all together...

But it could end up requiring HL: Source, we'll see...
 
I hope not... :D Unless I can easily upgrade from Bronze to Silver, or buy HL:S seperately...

I already own the back catalouge...LOL
 
There will be a patch version for HL:S owners, and the main mod version for owners of just HL2, don't worry we're very considerate :)
 
jheaddon said:
There will be a patch version for HL:S owners, and the main mod version for owners of just HL2, don't worry we're very considerate :)

WHEEE!!! Thank you thank you thank you!!! :D

Can't wait to see this one. :D
(Having been part of mod teams in the past, I know it's ALOT of work. Just a thanks in advance!)
 
This all looks really promising and could be a huge hit but there is no organization for a Source team (only a Half-Life 1 team).

I'm testing out a website to have a job listing and such, this wouldn't be anywhere near final and a redirection or new host would be nice. Check it out:
http://www.thebradyfamily.net/bms
 
thx - didn't know that was up :) forget my last post then
 
jheaddon said:
There will be a patch version for HL:S owners, and the main mod version for owners of just HL2, don't worry we're very considerate :)
Aw, man! I bought the collector's edition for nothing.
icon9.gif
 
jheaddon said:
There will be a patch version for HL:S owners, and the main mod version for owners of just HL2, don't worry we're very considerate :)
Would Valve be happy for you guys to give people who don't necessarily own Half-Life or Half-Life: Source, a re-make of Half-Life for free? I'm not sure about that, I think you'd be better off making it require Half-Life: Source to run. Contacting Valve and asking is probably the best thing to do, though.
 
Logic said:
Would Valve be happy for you guys to give people who don't necessarily own Half-Life or Half-Life: Source, a re-make of Half-Life for free? I'm not sure about that, I think you'd be better off making it require Half-Life: Source to run. Contacting Valve and asking is probably the best thing to do, though.

Good point
 
I've already considered this fact and researched it, i have also spoken with someone with experience in this area and have contacted Valve in accordance.
 
I would love to help with this, But I have zero exp. I would love to learn whatever is needed(want to get into game development anyways)
 
Really like where you are going with this Xen remake :thumbs:
Make full use of DX9 shaders and higher poly counts and you could end up with something quite beautiful to look at (and cool to shoot up).
I myself have other ideas for a Xen remake ;) Well not exactly. I envisage a truly nightmarish 'trip' into a surreal world. Sort of like Jacob's Ladder, but the 'hell' would be organic like you are tearing your way through internal tissues. Don't want to say too much about it though as my ideas are still under development.
 
Hopefully it will be a mod for HL2, because I'm one of the people who didn't waste his money on HL:Source and is looking forward to this mod.
 
Zeus, we are planning for a free version for HL2 owners, and HL:Source owners.

That is if Valve are cool with things
 
Zeus said:
Hopefully it will be a mod for HL2, because I'm one of the people who didn't waste his money on HL:Source and is looking forward to this mod.


i dont consider the silver pack to be 5 dollars more for HL:s and 5 dollors more for DOD:S, i consider it 10 dollars more for DOD:S and HL:S for free, and thatas a damned good deal in my opinion.
 
ps to those working on this, spend a long time on xen, valve said they never got to do with it what they wanted, so make 'em proud boys
 
here are the rules:

for recreating models:
imagine them in "higher definition" pretend regular half life is blurred, and you are simply bringing it into clearer view. this means DO NOT CHANGE THE BASIC SHAPES OF THINGS, there could be a reason behind something that no on understands yet until half life 3, or even something you just didnt think about.

monsers: same rules apply here

puzzles: leave all the puzzles the same or basically the same




if you are truly doing this for us, th half life fans, you dont want to piss us off, and trust me, half of us will be bitching "OMG WTF THERE ARE 3 HEADCRABS HERE USUALLY ITS 4 LOL" trust me, we have enjoyed this game for 6 years now, and we know it better than we know our own houses. you arent "re-doing": half life, you are just making a nice high-definition pack for it. for the record i completely agree with "logic" on this. please, i implore you, do not **** this up (it wont be easy, but stick to the original)

another hting, do not reuse anything from CS:S or HL2, thats just ****ing lazy. remember, eli and kliener were younger in this one, you WILL need to put in an eli and a kliener model, but dont do the qwhole 4 scis all over the place thing from half life 1, that was a technical limit and not a design choice, see if you can make every sci look different, eli and kliener shouldnt play huge roles, but should be distinguishable.
 
I have some concept art on the Leakfree forums for Anomalous Materials. Should have more up soon. It's under "Concept Art: Anomalous Matrials" (As if you actually need help finding it :p).
 
Wraith said:
another hting, do not reuse anything from CS:S or HL2, thats just ****ing lazy.

I disagree completely.

Why have people totally redo models and textures when totally awesome ones come with HL2?

In the interest of this thing actually coming out before HL3.....why not just plug in HL2 models? For instance just use the crowbar, shotgun, and crossbow models that come with HL2! Boom! Instant update. If a texture used in HL2 (like concrete or wood) looks like it would work in HL1 go ahead and just use the HL2 texture. The headcrabs and the Vortigaunt models look great in HL2, just plug 'em in.

I don't really see what's wrong with using the existing Eli and Kleiner models either. Remember, when making a mod it's very necessary to try and be realistic about what can actaully be accomplished. Sorry, but redoing every single thing in the entire game is just not a realistic goal for an amateur mod team.
 
sin hl2, eli has 1 real leg, he had both legs and a white lab coat in hl1. i do see your point tho, it would be a lot easier to use the same textures and models from hl2.....it seems dumb not to
 
DarkStar said:
I don't really see what's wrong with using the existing Eli and Kleiner models either. Remember, when making a mod it's very necessary to try and be realistic about what can actaully be accomplished. Sorry, but redoing every single thing in the entire game is just not a realistic goal for an amateur mod team.
Kleiner, maybe... but Eli? He lost his leg SINCE the resonance cascade, and he does look a lot older than the black scientist in HL1. Eli HAS to be re-done. It would be forgivable to re-use: barrels, boxes, crowbar, shotgun, headcrabs, barnacles and Vortigaunts, I suppose, but there would be very few re-usable textures (city 17 is a vastly different place to black mesa) and most of the models would have to be re-done. As long as the re-made things are absolutely indistinguishable in style and quality from the re-used HL2 things, you could get away with it. It is still kind of lazy, though :p , it really would be better to have everything made from scratch, for consistancy sake.
 
Well, personally, I think Kliener should have hair (This IS 15 years prior) that way not only does he look younger; he's easier to distinguise from the normal Black Mesa bald scientist. :)

Granted, it doesn't have to be a LOT of hair. :)

A retextured Eli head slapped onto the Kliener's models body would be prefectly find for him. (Again, there should be SOME different between Eli and the rest of the scientists that shared his model in HL1)
 
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Don't worry i've already been through all HL2 material and there isn't alot we can actually use, that which is there will be re-worked and re-textured to our work if we are unable to re-model it ourselves.

None of the textures / materials will be used. Just a few of the probs might be ok to use if re-worked and the high quality versions of the original HL1 music tracks which are in HL2.
 
Surely you can use the new Barnicles though, there so cool, and if your gonna redo the weapons, i hope your gonna use the new HEV hand models, so that everything looks consistant.

On the mapping side, theres some great old concept art for half-life 1, of stuff that never made it into the game, larger outdoor maps, and some stealthy areas with patroling guards and stuff.

Theres also a few aliens that never turned up like a giant purple one eyed animal, kinda like a cross between a Vortigaunt and a pinky demon, then there were the "Friendly" aliens with the big heads that were never used, and the construction workers could be a totally new generic charecter, hope you guys think about those things. :O
 
Also use the HEV MK5 model, but modify it so that it has that control panel on the chest plate
 
Great idea guys, but maybe add a few maps to the original to fully take advantage off the source engine, or play like somebody else at some point for a very short time or something, that way more people would play it if it add new things.

And I think you guys should use the crowbar model from hl2, you know the part where barney trows your crowbar in HL2 he says "I think you dropped this back in Black Mesa" or something.


But heh don't lissen to me, just some suggestions
 
It would be cool if, having found some 1337 3d artists with a passion for HL who remake the HL1 monsters to perfection, you then got them to remake chumtoad, friendly, kingpin etc. This would be cool for mappers. BM:S could take over the worlddddd!!!!!!
 
Thund - we have some extremely skilled 3D artists, Lupus for example is very handy indeed :)

Will have to see how things go as for the chumtoad et cetera, they wouldn't be added to the story (they were left out for a reason). But if one of the modellers is bored or finishes before everyone else then you never know, i'd love to see them again :)

If not ask on the board here, list the left out creatures and see if anyone wants a go. get it news posted maybe for advertisement :)
 
Lobster said:
On the mapping side, theres some great old concept art for half-life 1, of stuff that never made it into the game, larger outdoor maps, and some stealthy areas with patroling guards and stuff.

Theres also a few aliens that never turned up like a giant purple one eyed animal, kinda like a cross between a Vortigaunt and a pinky demon, then there were the "Friendly" aliens with the big heads that were never used, and the construction workers could be a totally new generic charecter, hope you guys think about those things. :O

No, i would hate that idea. I have to agree with Wraith, any hi-def version of Halflife: Source, should be just that and nothing more. Fine, make high res textures, models, etc, but do not change the game or the maps or the puzzles at all, apart from just replacing models and textures.
 
One thing. How long do you guys expect this to take?
I mean, the model for the monorail is neat, but took quite a long time.
So, how long do you guys think this would take? :)
 
In that case Razor, feel free to buy the Silver pack and play HL:S.

Forau, i'm not going to lie and say it'll be soon, cause it won't. Modelling, retexturing and re-mapping takes a considerable amount of time, therefore it's hard to even estimate a timescale.

Will just keep lots of progress posts on our website once its up.
 
jheaddon said:
In that case Razor, feel free to buy the Silver pack and play HL:S.

Forau, i'm not going to lie and say it'll be soon, cause it won't. Modelling, retexturing and re-mapping takes a considerable amount of time, therefore it's hard to even estimate a timescale.

Will just keep lots of progress posts on our website once its up.


I have the gold pack :p, but what i am saying is that if you change the game, it stops being Halflife and starts being something else.
 
We know very well the consequences of if we change vital or even important minor things.

hence why we are releasing our design document and getting the communities feedback every step of the way, so as to keep this minimal and hopefully, atall.
 
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