impressions of london (for americans)

[repiV]

I have a serious question for you people in the United Kingdom..
How the hell have you people been able to survive in such a small space, with so many people? Or do most of them just go to different countries or the USA?

A third of the UK population live in London (add another 10 million commuters on top of that)...and there are plenty more crowded cities than London. I'm sure there's plenty of space in the rest of the country...
Although, there is a lot of emigration nowadays because the country is a shadow of its former self. Me too as soon as I can get me a Hong Kong visa...

 

[el Chi]

london IMO is one of the most multiculteral places in the world.

is that a bad thing.. or a good thing?

YOU decide.

Indeed it is, and as far as I'm concerned it's one of the things I love most about London.
Anyone who thinks differently is wrong.

Isnt London that place where chimney sweeps run around rooftops and everyone says chim chim charoo at least once a day?

That was, funnily enough, how I sepnt a few years of my childhood.

When I think of London, I think of beautifull architecture, rainy, overcast days, beer... lots of beer. Fairly happy people, drinking beer, in beautifully crafted buildings on rainy days. Then stumbling home, drunk, unaware of the zombie infestation later on in the evening... eh wait..

I recently went to Bordeaux and discovered that the best way to get to know a city is as follows:

1. Walk around the main parts of the city (use public transport to gget to those hard-to-reach places) for about 30 mins with a friend.
2. Stop at a bar/pub for a beer.
3. Rinse, repeat.

I think you could do the same with London. Things in the centre of town really aren't as far away as everyone always imagines.

 

[repiV]

Indeed it is, and as far as I'm concerned it's one of the things I love most about London.
Anyone who thinks differently is wrong.

It's wrong to object to our culture being hijacked by people with 11th century mindsets completely incompatible with Western thought who weren't even born here? Many of whom sympathise with terrorism against the West and don't mix with the host culture any more than they have to?

When you move to another country, you adapt to their culture and customs or get the hell out.

 

[Beerdude26]

It's wrong to object to our culture being hijacked by people with 11th century mindsets completely incompatible with Western thought who weren't even born here? Many of whom sympathise with terrorism against the West and don't mix with the host culture any more than they have to?

When you move to another country, you adapt to their culture and customs or get the hell out.

Well, you guys did invite them over a few centuries ago.

Wait, you're talking about islam? I haven't ever heard or seen any influences of that in British culture :|

 

[repiV]

Well, you guys did invite them over a few centuries ago.

Wait, you're talking about islam? I haven't ever heard or seen any influences of that in British culture :|

That's the problem. They don't influence British culture, they bring their own backwards culture over here fully and live alongside us and refuse to assimilate. They want all the benefits of living in a rich country but aren't willing to become part of our society - the society that is responsible for this country being rich in the first place! Within 50 years, it's projected that 30% of the population of Europe will be Muslim. Is this really the future you want for your grandchildren?

There's nothing wrong with INFLUENCES, that's a sign of assimilation. Instead, we have segregation.

 

[theotherguy]

Lol that picture is totally wrong- americans only see the continental US - most people dont know hawaii/alaska exist =p

or better yet, just an image of their state, county or city.

I swear, some people I know can't even outline the United States properly on a map of North America, let alone tell you the states...and forget about other countries.

last year in world history our first assignment was to draw a map of the world from scratch, and it was pretty funny, since most people's papers had 2/3 of the world taken up by the continental US, south america squished near the bottom, and Australia, Antarctica and East Asia completley missing.

I at least was able to get the big countries, but my map failed in the middle of africa, eastern europe and southeast asia (I just labled them by those terms)

 

[DeusExMachina]

I'm not too good at geography myself. I know where the continents are, but I probably couldn't outline them right.

 

[Beerdude26]

That's the problem. They don't influence British culture, they bring their own backwards culture over here fully and live alongside us and refuse to assimilate. They want all the benefits of living in a rich country but aren't willing to become part of our society - the society that is responsible for this country being rich in the first place! Within 50 years, it's projected that 30% of the population of Europe will be Muslim. Is this really the future you want for your grandchildren?

There's nothing wrong with INFLUENCES, that's a sign of assimilation. Instead, we have segregation.

I'm presuming assimiliation = integration for you guys, because in Belgium, assimilation = segregation, lol

But I do concur on the retards that think they can get by with not learning the language in the country they live in and mooch off others. That's why you have to put effort into integrating them into the society. In Belgium, we give cheap language lessons, and immigrants have to go through a language and culture exam if they want to stay here. Every immigrant is accompanied throughout the integration process. If they veer off course, they get put on track again.

It's quite an efficient process, really.

 

[repiV]

I'm presuming assimiliation = integration for you guys, because in Belgium, assimilation = segregation, lol

Ah. Assimilation is like integration, yes. Think the Borg.

But I do concur on the retards that think they can get by with not learning the language in the country they live in and mooch off others. That's why you have to put effort into integrating them into the society. In Belgium, we give cheap language lessons, and immigrants have to go through a language and culture exam if they want to stay here. Every immigrant is accompanied throughout the integration process. If they veer off course, they get put on track again.

It's quite an efficient process, really.

Refugees, asylum seekers and migrant workers get free English lessons here, too. I don't see why that privilege should be extended to migrant workers, as they're perfectly capable of paying for their own lessons - but I digress.
You certainly don't have to take any kind of exam to stay here though - I don't believe you need to even for citizenship.

 

[Beerdude26]

Refugees, asylum seekers and migrant workers get free English lessons here, too. I don't see why that privilege should be extended to migrant workers, as they're perfectly capable of paying for their own lessons - but I digress.

More often than not, these people have absolutely nothing to start with. They want to start off clean and integrate (and if they don't, they get thrown out of the country. Well, that's how it's here in Belgium ). It's a good idea to jump-start them and at least give them the lessons to teach them how to tell that they want to make an honest living.

You certainly don't have to take any kind of exam to stay here though - I don't believe you need to even for citizenship.

Yes, that's what I find strange about England: When you get in, there's no way whatsoever that they can put you off the island again, because you don't even need an identity card. Only if you're a know fugitive they are allowed to arrest you. In Belgium, we have identity cards, and the police can just request them and know where you live and see that you're a legitimate inhabitant of the country. No need for long and confusing procedures

 

[Noobulon]

That's the problem. They don't influence British culture, they bring their own backwards culture over here fully and live alongside us and refuse to assimilate. They want all the benefits of living in a rich country but aren't willing to become part of our society - the society that is responsible for this country being rich in the first place! Within 50 years, it's projected that 30% of the population of Europe will be Muslim. Is this really the future you want for your grandchildren?

There's nothing wrong with INFLUENCES, that's a sign of assimilation. Instead, we have segregation.

This is 50% of the problem

The other 50% is when white Brits' default attitute towards Muslims is to accuse them of being backwards-cultured benefit-stealers.

Really, if someone introduces you to a country with a cry of "INTEGRATE YOU BACKWARD-CULTURED FREELOADER!!", your reaction isn't going to be positive...
I believe the endless bitching in the media is just fuelling the segregation.

 

[repiV]

More often than not, these people have absolutely nothing to start with. They want to start off clean and integrate (and if they don't, they get thrown out of the country. Well, that's how it's here in Belgium ). It's a good idea to jump-start them and at least give them the lessons to teach them how to tell that they want to make an honest living.

It's good that they actually make you integrate there.

Yes, that's what I find strange about England: When you get in, there's no way whatsoever that they can put you off the island again, because you don't even need an identity card. Only if you're a know fugitive they are allowed to arrest you. In Belgium, we have identity cards, and the police can just request them and know where you live and see that you're a legitimate inhabitant of the country. No need for long and confusing procedures

Hell, they wouldn't even deport that crazy nutter with the hook for a hand...

 

[repiV]

This is 50% of the problem

The other 50% is when white Brits' default attitute towards Muslims is to accuse them of being backwards-cultured benefit-stealers.

I doubt there are too many Muslim benefit stealers. No doubt, they work hard - the vast majority in low-skilled jobs that do not warrant the issuance of a visa.

Really, if someone introduces you to a country with a cry of "INTEGRATE YOU BACKWARD-CULTURED FREELOADER!!", your reaction isn't going to be positive...
I believe the endless bitching in the media is just fuelling the segregation.

Islamic culture is very backwards. It's also incompatible with Western culture.
Asian cultures complement Western culture nicely. They also have virtues that we lack. My best friend is Sri Lankan and I love her to bits.
Islam is something altogether different.
However, I see your point about the self-fulfilling prophecy. I judge everybody as an individual, but when you're dealing with societal issues you have to make generalisations.

 

[Beerdude26]

It's good that they actually make you integrate there.

Well, we know how to handle them. We invited them over in the 60's when we didn't have enough people to handle the booming economy. They told their families and friends that it was awesome here, and those people also flocked to here.

Around that time, we were like "Okay that's good, we still have some jobs left, but don't overdo it." Then we had problems with extremistic nubs. They got kicked out, and we started to implement courses to help foreigners integrate. After some time, we had that entire procedure, and it works well.

Currently we've got 1 million foreigners in Belgium. 9% of the entire populace. But you see them a lot in cities, because that's where the work is. According to statistics at Wikipedia, England also has 9% (2001 census) of "non-white" inhabitants.

They're not exactly taking over

 

[repiV]

Well, we know how to handle them. We invited them over in the 60's when we didn't have enough people to handle the booming economy. They told their families and friends that it was awesome here, and those people also flocked to here.

Around that time, we were like "Okay that's good, we still have some jobs left, but don't overdo it." Then we had problems with extremistic nubs. They got kicked out, and we started to implement courses to help foreigners integrate. After some time, we had that entire procedure, and it works well.

Nice.

Currently we've got 1 million foreigners in Belgium. 9% of the entire populace. But you see them a lot in cities, because that's where the work is. According to statistics at Wikipedia, England also has 9% (2001 census) of "non-white" inhabitants.

They're not exactly taking over

Uh-huh. You're neglecting regional statistics. 30% of Londoners were not even born in this country. Take a look at the statistics for my borough.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Borough_of_Harrow

It tells a very different story, eh?

 

[Beerdude26]

Uh-huh. You're neglecting regional statistics. 30% of Londoners were not even born in this country. Take a look at the statistics for my borough.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Borough_of_Harrow

It tells a very different story, eh?

It's a big borough with quite outdated infrastructure. Street crime is high. The populations consists of about 65% foreigners (Including Irish, Jews and Hindus). The borough has a good educational record, and has two of the finest schools in England.

Seems like a borough that, with some renewal of the infrastructure and some effort into integration, is on the way of becoming another good borough of London, to be honest.

 

[repiV]

It's a big borough with quite outdated infrastructure. Street crime is high. The populations consists of about 65% foreigners (Including Irish, Jews and Hindus). The borough has a good educational record, and has two of the finest schools in England.

Seems like a borough that, with some renewal of the infrastructure and some effort into integration, is on the way of becoming another good borough of London, to be honest.

It's a shithole. The only nice areas are Harrow on the Hill, Stanmore (where I'm relatively fortunate to be living), Hatch End and Pinner. Parts of Rayners Lane are nice enough. The rest of it is a depressing, run down dive.
I've lived in this borough my entire life, in many different areas, and I've seen how it's gone downhill. Wherever the Muslims go, delapidation ALWAYS results. It's just the cold, hard truth.
I lived in Harrow town centre for some years, and it used to be really nice. Now it's disgusting. And they're building an enormous great mosque that's going to tower over the skyline.
It is no coincidence that the only remaining nice areas of Harrow are Jewish areas (Stanmore, Hatch End) or otherwise very affluent, exclusive, predominantly white areas (Pinner, Harrow on the Hill).

 

[Beerdude26]

It's a shithole. The only nice areas are Harrow on the Hill, Stanmore (where I'm relatively fortunate to be living), Hatch End and Pinner. Parts of Rayners Lane are nice enough. The rest of it is a depressing, run down dive.
I've lived in this borough my entire life, in many different areas, and I've seen how it's gone downhill. Wherever the Muslims go, delapidation ALWAYS results. It's just the cold, hard truth.
I lived in Harrow town centre for some years, and it used to be really nice. Now it's disgusting. And they're building an enormous great mosque that's going to tower over the skyline.
It is no coincidence that the only remaining nice areas of Harrow are Jewish areas (Stanmore, Hatch End) or otherwise very affluent, exclusive, predominantly white areas (Pinner, Harrow on the Hill).

Then fix it.

Yelling "THIS PLACE ****ING SUCKS!" isn't going to fix it.

EDIT: You can fix it by just kicking them out, which is the easy way out.
After some time, you'll encounter a new spot that isn't really up to par with the standards elsewhere.
Kick those people out as well.
In a few years, you will have kicked every 'bad' person out of the country.
After some more time, new 'bad' persons will be distilled from the populace, and the cycle can be repeated.

Sure, that's an option. But do you want to be the one kicked out?

 

[repiV]

Then fix it.

Yelling "THIS PLACE ****ING SUCKS!" isn't going to fix it.

EDIT: You can fix it by just kicking them out, which is the easy way out.
After some time, you'll encounter a new spot that isn't really up to par with the standards elsewhere.
Kick those people out as well.
In a few years, you will have kicked every 'bad' person out of the country.
After some more time, new 'bad' persons will be distilled from the populace, and the cycle can be repeated.

Sure, that's an option. But do you want to be the one kicked out?

I'm British, why would I be kicked out of Britain? In any event, that's not really an issue, as I'm emigrating to Hong Kong as soon as I am able to.

 

[Beerdude26]

I'm British, why would I be kicked out of Britain? In any event, that's not really an issue, as I'm emigrating to Hong Kong as soon as I am able to.

After some time, when all the others are gone, British people will be the only people to kick out. And don't you think British criminals will be allowed to stay in Britain; they're as much scum as foreign criminals are.

And when they are kicked out, the view will focus on the less-than-efficient citizens: Handicapped people, elderly, homosexuals ("Hey, we want to REPRODUCE, not have bumsex."). And when those are all gone, I think it's safe to say that we kick out the lazier workers aswell. We can give the jobs to better qualified people.

 

[repiV]

After some time, when all the others are gone, British people will be the only people to kick out. And don't you think British criminals will be allowed to stay in Britain; they're as much scum as foreign criminals are.

And when they are kicked out, the view will focus on the less-than-efficient citizens: Handicapped people, elderly, homosexuals ("Hey, we want to REPRODUCE, not have bumsex."). And when those are all gone, I think it's safe to say that we kick out the lazier workers aswell. We can give the jobs to better qualified people.

You are operating under the false premise that everyone has an equal right to live in a particular country. British criminals are Britain's problem. Iranian criminals are...Iran's problem.

 

[kirovman]

Just a question repiV... since you're planning on emigrating to Hong Kong (which is a high population density area), are you planning on integrating into Chinese culture?

I realise that it's pretty similar to British culture ATM, having been administered by us for most of the 20th Century, but as time goes on, it will assimilate more and more into Mainland China culture, and some of the things you take for granted (like Universal Sufferage, freedom of the media) may become eroded.
Also, do you have your sights set on learning Cantonese or Mandarin?


I say this because of the irony I find with British who complain that immigrants fail to integrate... who then go on to become Expats all over the world, but the eat British food, drink English beer, hang out in English bars with British people, don't learn the local language, thinking that they're superior to the locals.

The only real reason we have a lot of freedom to travel all over the world, with a lot wealth relative to the world's population - an extremely privillaged position (whereas people from countries such as China cannot get visas so easily) is because we are riding the after-surf from a now defunct empire. And there's not much we can do to stop the inevitable decline, even if we banned immigration or whatever. I would argue that the only way to stop that decline would be to have a greater deal of mutual cooperation and trust with Europe - and that's only if the Europeans sat up and worked hard in the face of Globalisation.

 

[repiV]

Just a question repiV... since you're planning on emigrating to Hong Kong (which is a high population density area), are you planning on integrating into Chinese culture?

Yes. I hear it's very difficult to do, because the Chinese are so vastly different from us. Also, since Cantonese is such a hard language, almost no foreigners ever manage to learn to speak it properly, and they prefer to speak English with you than listen to your badly pronounced Canto (although most apparently assume you don't speak it at all anyway). And of course, since it's a tonal language, if you can't say it in just the right tone of voice, what you said means something completely different.
Still, that's the goal.

I realise that it's pretty similar to British culture ATM, having been administered by us for most of the 20th Century, but as time goes on, it will assimilate more and more into Mainland China culture, and some of the things you take for granted (like Universal Sufferage, freedom of the media) may become eroded.

Hong Kong doesn't have universal suffrage. The Chief Executive is elected by a board of 800 business and industry leaders. There's a huge movement to change that though. I don't see Hong Kongers would let that happen. The worst racism in Hong Kong is against mainland Chinese.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_politics

Also, do you have your sights set on learning Cantonese or Mandarin?

Hai, mm goi.

I say this because of the irony I find with British who complain that immigrants fail to integrate... who then go on to become Expats all over the world, but the eat British food, drink English beer, hang out in English bars with British people, don't learn the local language, thinking that they're superior to the locals.

Yes. That is definitely true. Of course I'll still have my expat meetings and so on, but it's certainly not my intention to act like that.

The only real reason we have a lot of freedom to travel all over the world, with a lot wealth relative to the world's population - an extremely privillaged position (whereas people from countries such as China cannot get visas so easily) is because we are riding the after-surf from a now defunct empire. And there's not much we can do to stop the inevitable decline, even if we banned immigration or whatever. I would argue that the only way to stop that decline would be to have a greater deal of mutual cooperation and trust with Europe - and that's only if the Europeans sat up and worked hard in the face of Globalisation.

Yeah, the balance of power is definitely in our favour...
We need radical action to stop this decline. Britain has a reputation for being the world's dumping ground. People go to New York to be Americans. People come to London to be themselves.

 

[kirovman]

Ah well, good luck

I'm planning on moving out to China or Singapore or that general region once I have enough career experience under my belt.

 

[repiV]

Ah well, good luck

I'm planning on moving out to China or Singapore or that general region once I have enough career experience under my belt.

Cheers.
Shanghai or Hong Kong is where it's at, man. You'd never catch me living in Singapore...police state. Shanghai has almost as much allure as Hong Kong - more in some ways. I almost went there to teach English for a couple of years, but then I found a career with prospects and I'm not about to give it up. Go for it.

 

[Solaris]

I almost called Repriv a racist 10 posts ago, now I'm pretty certain.

 

[repiV]

I almost called Repriv a racist 10 posts ago, now I'm pretty certain.

Racism is based on ignorance, young Padawan. Pointing out the truth based on observable facts is not racism.

 

[Solaris]

Wherever the Muslims go, delapidation ALWAYS results. It's just the cold, hard truth.

Gtfo.

 

[repiV]

Gtfo.

It's the truth, you don't have to like it. If you weren't so deranged, you'd be more pissed about Muslims who live among us declaring Jihad on the West and blowing up tube stations and airliners than about the native population who get pissed off at how they **** up our society.
But go ahead, sit there smugly and call people racists. Soon you'll have all the Muslims you can handle, plus plenty more.

 

[Krynn72]

Pointing out the truth based on observable facts is not racism.

Show us these facts please. And "just look at such and such place" wont cut it.

 

[cherry]

It's the truth, you don't have to like it. If you weren't so deranged, you'd be more pissed about Muslims who live among us declaring Jihad on the West and blowing up tube stations and airliners than about the native population who get pissed off at how they **** up our society.
But go ahead, sit there smugly and call people racists. Soon you'll have all the Muslims you can handle, plus plenty more.

solaris is right, it's people like you that make the world a bad place to live in. there are some fantastic muslim communities that live in london that really contribute. if anything it's the white gangs of binge drinkers that cause the problems.

 

[repiV]

Show us these facts please. And "just look at such and such place" wont cut it.

Well, it will cut it, because that's the most effective way of drawing conclusions - seeing it for yourself.

 

[repiV]

solaris is right, it's people like you that make the world a bad place to live in. there are some fantastic muslim communities that live in london that really contribute. if anything it's the white gangs of binge drinkers that cause the problems.

Blind leading the blind.
Only a sheer fool would direct more hostility towards an apparent "racist" than to terrorists and cultures who want the benefits of living in our society but refuse to be a part of it.
I don't see any white gangs of binge drinkers blowing up tube stations and calling for Sharia law in their local community, do you?
Neither do I see them blowing up embassies and threatening people not to display "offensive" cartoons.

 

[Solaris]

Blind leading the blind.
Only a sheer fool would direct more hostility towards an apparent "racist" than to terrorists and cultures who want the benefits of living in our society but refuse to be a part of it.
I don't see any white gangs of binge drinkers blowing up tube stations and calling for Sharia law in their local community, do you?
Neither do I see them blowing up embassies and threatening people not to display "offensive" cartoons.

I see groups of white drunken men going round stabbing asian fellows in Burnley.

 

[repiV]

I see groups of white drunken men going round stabbing asian fellows in Burnley.

So you compare murder under diminished responsibility to acts of war?

 

[Beerdude26]

Well, it will cut it, because that's the most effective way of drawing conclusions - seeing it for yourself.

Now, you see, that is the worst thing someone could ever, ever, EVER do.

EVER.

Because the foreigners in THAT location are bad, does it mean that ALL the foreigners are bad? No. It just means that in THAT location, they are complete asshats, and should be dealt with. But it doesn't mean that every muslim community is secretely scheming to blow up Parliament.

If people think like you, they become you. Let me elaborate:
-You generalize far too much. Thus, you act in a negative way to absolute and complete strangers that fit in the box of 'muslim', or 'paki', or any other foreign entity.
-These people are appalled that they are treated this way by utter and complete strangers, even when they have done nothing against them. All they want to do is start a fair and square life.

Now, they can either:
-Realize that not all the British people are like that;
-Or generalize, and think that every British person is weary of them and does not like them.

Now, which of the two options above do you think would be the most logical?

 

[repiV]

Now, you see, that is the worst thing someone could ever, ever, EVER do.

EVER.

Because the foreigners in THAT location are bad, does it mean that ALL the foreigners are bad? No. It just means that in THAT location, they are complete asshats, and should be dealt with. But it doesn't mean that every muslim community is secretely scheming to blow up Parliament.

Where did I say anything about foreigners? I was talking about Muslims. They don't even have to be foreign. The ones responsible for the tube bombings were born here.

If people think like you, they become you. Let me elaborate:
-You generalize far too much. Thus, you act in a negative way to absolute and complete strangers that fit in the box of 'muslim', or 'paki', or any other foreign entity.
-These people are appalled that they are treated this way by utter and complete strangers, even when they have done nothing against them. All they want to do is start a fair and square life.

Now, they can either:
-Realize that not all the British people are like that;
-Or generalize, and think that every British person is weary of them and does not like them.

Now, which of the two options above do you think would be the most logical?

It's impossible to deal with immigration policy on an "individual scale" to tackle this problem. It's a basic cultural incompatibility. And even if the individual you pass through is ok, what about their kids? Seduced by the messages of the mullahs.
Furthermore, why should we waste resources on dealing with a problem of our own creation which will never be solved by such pussified means? We could just avoid the problem in the first place. Wouldn't that be simple?
You know they locked all the Japanese in the country up in the USA during World War II, right? But you don't hear people whining about how inhumane that was, do you?
You talk as if it's our duty to let people come here and stay here. This is war, in case you hadn't noticed.

 

[Solaris]

You know they locked all the Japanese in the country up in the USA during World War II, right? But you don't hear people whining about how inhumane that was, do you?

Yes, it was ****ing distgusting.

 

[repiV]

Yes, it was ****ing distgusting.

Not as disgusting as this.

War is a disgusting business, boy. And you don't win it by putting political correctness ahead of security.

 

[Solaris]

Not as disgusting as this.

War is a disgusting business, boy. And you don't win it by putting political correctness ahead of security.

Oh **** off with your ageist supremacy