LOST: Destiny Found

[Sheepo]

It's obvious that Jacob and MIB grew in their spiritual connection and powers from the island (well that's just Jacob) and grew to understand the people, phenomenon, and rules of the island. But what you're asking for is the answer within the answer, the unattainable 'real answer', which neither exists nor needs to. And as for Jacob leaving the island, there's no reason he shouldn't be able to, it's merely a matter of how he got from point A to point B (trivial).

 

[Yorick]

If not for the Scientist Purge, the Dharma Initiative may very well have found out how the Island worked.

I have some confusions still, though.

As far as Jacob being able to leave the Island, I'm wondering more and more if that's what happened. We saw Jacob appear after death as both as a child and an adult to the Candidates. I don't think it would be entirely impossible for him to "project himself" across the world.

And, I don't know, I feel like some things were learned about in those thousands of years. I'm sort of curious how The Man in Black's "I want to leave" turned into Jacob saying, "Hey since we have all eternity, let's bring people here against their will to test what kind of people they are." What the hell was that supposed to prove? Ironic, at least, that the Man in Black had the same philosophy as his mother - who was the reason he was still on the Island.

The Man in Black could communicate with the dead, like Hurley can. Miles couldn't, but he could know their final thoughts. I was kind of hoping that would mean something. I was really hoping that Hurley being able to see dead people would mean that Dave was more than just him being crazy and actually had some significance.

And then, you know, things like Jacob's Lighthouse. How exactly do you think that came into being? It has hieroglyphics on it as well. But the etchings and names and such suggest that he had some power that extended beyond the Island itself. What about the Lamp Post? It was set up specifically for being able to find the Island, over a similar pocket of energy. If the Light is on the Island, why is it also in LA?

What I'm curious about is this. Across the Sea supposedly happens roughly 2000 years prior to the events of Lost. The Egyptian society that was there before would have had to be there at least 3000 years BEFORE THAT. This group of people, they built the statue, they built the temple. Based on the locations of their hieroglyphics and what they say, they were even inside the Heart of the Island, and the area that would later become the frozen donkey wheel chamber. It's that Egyptian society I'm really curious about, mostly what happened to them, and why they left.

During their time there, they even encountered the Smoke Monster, which implies that the Man in Black wasn't the only one. Hell, what does being the Smoke Monster even entail? When John Locke first encountered it, he remarked that, "I looked into the eye of this Island, and what I saw... was beautiful." He even described it to Eko as a beautiful bright light. Hell, John Locke DREW the Smoke Monster when he was 5. What the hell sense does that make.

The Smoke is referred to prior to Season 6 as being a Security System. For some reason, Sonar Fences (How the hell did someone figure that out) and Ash can stop it, but it can turn into people, or even creatures, such as the Medusa Spider. It also seems to have a way of scanning people, perhaps to absorb their memories. But why? It scans Eko without killing him in Season 2. And if entering the Source is what made the Man in Black into one, why didn't Desmond become one? Or Jack? Even Hurley and Ben went pretty far into the cave.

It also doesn't come up, by why exactly was Desmond's purpose? I mean, the only thing he seemed able to do was to sink the Island, and there's no saying what would have happened in this case, but it seems odd that Jacob would protect the Island for 2,000 years and then create the perfect weapon for his opponent. What was Desmond really supposed to do?

AND WTF IS WITH JACOB'S CABIN.

 

[Rizzo]

So Yorick, it seems to me, that you are asking the same ****ing question we did. Can it be that you simply don't understand the show? And should go watch Gossip girl if you want answers instead?

 

[Tyguy]

Yorick, those are very good questions.

I'll try not to rehash what I've said previously but those of you defending the finale seem to be impudently trivializing aspects of the show which many of us find important to the story. You might be perfectly content with the "choose your own adventure" type of allegory they left us with and that's fine; there's plenty of shows that operate the same way and are successful but LOST, in my opinion, deserved a more intricate conclusion. Also, it's getting increasingly aggravating to be told our understanding of the show is somehow inferior based solely on differing opinions...get real.

I don't feel as if I'm being overly critical of the show because the writers were responsible for introducing these unknowns while placing undeserved emphasis on them to garner enthusiasm and bump ratings. We know the writers didn't have a clue where they were taking this show past the first couple of seasons and although it's rarely the case that sitcom writers have their story set in stone, it's important to take this into consideration. They had to fill in the blanks within a given time frame and they ultimately chose the path of least resistance.

Cuse and Lindelof vehemently denied the island was purgatory once those kind of theories started pouring in towards the beginning of the series. I took them at their word and continued to view the show through the lens of pseudo science. It's their show and they can do what they want with it, but I felt swindled.

I don't know, I feel like I'm shitting on myself because I really did like the show but I can't overlook the idea that LOST cast a baited hook into the water only to reel in seaweed and a toilet seat (with a dharma logo).

 

[Raziaar]

If not for the Scientist Purge, the Dharma Initiative may very well have found out how the Island worked.

I have some confusions still, though.

As far as Jacob being able to leave the Island, I'm wondering more and more if that's what happened. We saw Jacob appear after death as both as a child and an adult to the Candidates. I don't think it would be entirely impossible for him to "project himself" across the world.

And, I don't know, I feel like some things were learned about in those thousands of years. I'm sort of curious how The Man in Black's "I want to leave" turned into Jacob saying, "Hey since we have all eternity, let's bring people here against their will to test what kind of people they are." What the hell was that supposed to prove? Ironic, at least, that the Man in Black had the same philosophy as his mother - who was the reason he was still on the Island.

The Man in Black could communicate with the dead, like Hurley can. Miles couldn't, but he could know their final thoughts. I was kind of hoping that would mean something. I was really hoping that Hurley being able to see dead people would mean that Dave was more than just him being crazy and actually had some significance.

And then, you know, things like Jacob's Lighthouse. How exactly do you think that came into being? It has hieroglyphics on it as well. But the etchings and names and such suggest that he had some power that extended beyond the Island itself. What about the Lamp Post? It was set up specifically for being able to find the Island, over a similar pocket of energy. If the Light is on the Island, why is it also in LA?

What I'm curious about is this. Across the Sea supposedly happens roughly 2000 years prior to the events of Lost. The Egyptian society that was there before would have had to be there at least 3000 years BEFORE THAT. This group of people, they built the statue, they built the temple. Based on the locations of their hieroglyphics and what they say, they were even inside the Heart of the Island, and the area that would later become the frozen donkey wheel chamber. It's that Egyptian society I'm really curious about, mostly what happened to them, and why they left.

During their time there, they even encountered the Smoke Monster, which implies that the Man in Black wasn't the only one. Hell, what does being the Smoke Monster even entail? When John Locke first encountered it, he remarked that, "I looked into the eye of this Island, and what I saw... was beautiful." He even described it to Eko as a beautiful bright light. Hell, John Locke DREW the Smoke Monster when he was 5. What the hell sense does that make.

The Smoke is referred to prior to Season 6 as being a Security System. For some reason, Sonar Fences (How the hell did someone figure that out) and Ash can stop it, but it can turn into people, or even creatures, such as the Medusa Spider. It also seems to have a way of scanning people, perhaps to absorb their memories. But why? It scans Eko without killing him in Season 2. And if entering the Source is what made the Man in Black into one, why didn't Desmond become one? Or Jack? Even Hurley and Ben went pretty far into the cave.

It also doesn't come up, by why exactly was Desmond's purpose? I mean, the only thing he seemed able to do was to sink the Island, and there's no saying what would have happened in this case, but it seems odd that Jacob would protect the Island for 2,000 years and then create the perfect weapon for his opponent. What was Desmond really supposed to do?

AND WTF IS WITH JACOB'S CABIN.

None of those mysteries matter. The lighthouse only mattered so that we could see Jack get angry and break the mirror. It's only about the characters... none of the mystery and mythical intrigue in the show mattered, ever.

YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE SHOW! Clearly the show just used the Mysterious Tropical Island as a setting to avoid it just being another typical soap opera.

 

[ríomhaire]

I'm thinking the Smoke monster wasn't really the MiB but some personification of his inner demons or something phrased a little less cornily. Why? When the light engulfs Jack he gets teleported somewhere else on the island and dies. When the MiB gets thrown in the light the smoke monster comes out and Jacob finds the MiB's body somewhere else. So the MiB also got teleported out and died. Jack didn't get turned into a smoke monster because he was at peace or some crap. There could also have been other smoke monsters before from other impure people walking into the light.

 

[Yorick]

So Yorick, it seems to me, that you are asking the same ****ing question we did. Can it be that you simply don't understand the show? And should go watch Gossip girl if you want answers instead?

Being curious about things relevant in our character's lives is not the same thing as hating the ending for where it brought those lives.

I'm thinking the Smoke monster wasn't really the MiB but some personification of his inner demons or something phrased a little less cornily. Why? When the light engulfs Jack he gets teleported somewhere else on the island and dies. When the MiB gets thrown in the light the smoke monster comes out and Jacob finds the MiB's body somewhere else. So the MiB also got teleported out and died. Jack didn't get turned into a smoke monster because he was at peace or some crap. There could also have been other smoke monsters before from other impure people walking into the light.

Jack dies because The Smoke Monster stabbed him in the gut, and there was something said about the light would kill him as well. I'd be inclined to agree about the Smoke Monster being unique to MIB, except that
a) He doesn't SEEM to be an evil person when he becomes the smoke monster. He's confused and determined because he's been lied to his entire life. His mother commits mass murder, he only kills her. In different circumstances he'd be a hero.
b) We see from the hieroglyphics that there were other smoke monsters.

 

[Tyguy]

We see from the hieroglyphics that there were other smoke monsters.

You have the screen caps of that? I missed it...

 

[Sheepo]

So Yorick, it seems to me, that you are asking the same ****ing question we did. Can it be that you simply don't understand the show? And should go watch Gossip girl if you want answers instead?

Being curious about some of the mysteries the show left us with =/= Raging because the finale wasn't 2.5 hours of forced and disappointing answers to questions that didn't need answering

Cuse and Lindelof vehemently denied the island was purgatory once those kind of theories started pouring in towards the beginning of the series. I took them at their word and continued to view the show through the lens of pseudo science. It's their show and they can do what they want with it, but I felt swindled.

Am I missing something? The island still isn't purgatory.

None of those mysteries matter. The lighthouse only mattered so that we could see Jack get angry and break the mirror. It's only about the characters... none of the mystery and mythical intrigue in the show mattered, ever.

YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE SHOW! Clearly the show just used the Mysterious Tropical Island as a setting to avoid it just being another typical soap opera.

My sympathy for you is rapidly fading, you're borderline hysterical. The island provides for a mysterious setting that can allow impossible things to happen and develop the plot in ways that wouldn't work if you just tried to ram 40+ random people together in everyday life. It serves as a metaphor for dozens of things, and provides a pretty backdrop.

AND WTF IS WITH JACOB'S CABIN.

This bothers me more than anything as well.

 

[Yorick]

You have the screen caps of that? I missed it...

I don't. I'll get them just for you though.

In 5x12, Dead is Dead. Underneath the temple wall, when Ben goes in to get "judged" by the smoke monster, just before he gets reamed out by Alex (who is really the Smoke Monster), we see this.

 

[Krynn72]

As far as Jacob being able to leave the Island, I'm wondering more and more if that's what happened. We saw Jacob appear after death as both as a child and an adult to the Candidates. I don't think it would be entirely impossible for him to "project himself" across the world.

Wasn't it Jacob's rule that nobody could leave? Seems plausible that he might make an exception for himself.

 

[Sheepo]

Being Jacob's rule just means that it's not really a rule at all, and can simply be broken. So unless the island dictated that only Jacob (and MIB obviously) are unable to leave the island, the only problem that leaves is the matter of transportation. Yorick's theory covers that, but I've never been a huge fan of the "projection" idea.

 

[Yorick]

Wasn't it Jacob's rule that nobody could leave? Seems plausible that he might make an exception for himself.

It was his "mother"'s rule. If she spent her life saying "No you guys stay here", and killed the Man in Black's entire crew over it, I think it might have rubbed off on Jacob that she was serious. I'm not sure why he'd listen to her about keeping MIB there, but break the rule about himself. It feels very contradictory to me.

the only problem that leaves is the matter of transportation. Yorick's theory covers that, but I've never been a huge fan of the "projection" idea.

Well, there are certainly boats.

 

[Raziaar]

My sympathy for you is rapidly fading, you're borderline hysterical. The island provides for a mysterious setting that can allow impossible things to happen and develop the plot in ways that wouldn't work if you just tried to ram 40+ random people together in everyday life. It serves as a metaphor for dozens of things, and provides a pretty backdrop.

God Sheepo, that was obviously over the top sarcasm.

It's just a product of being told by people such as yourself constantly that we don't understand the show simply because we didn't like the character development revelations of certain characters, or feeling gypped with the finale.


And you saying that Jacob's cabin bothers you, shows that you feel exactly the same way that I do about something, except you feel the need to turn around and say I don't understand the show because I feel bothered about a fair number more things than you, and perhaps with an elevated intensity.

Being Jacob's rule just means that it's not really a rule at all, and can simply be broken. So unless the island dictated that only Jacob (and MIB obviously) are unable to leave the island, the only problem that leaves is the matter of transportation. Yorick's theory covers that, but I've never been a huge fan of the "projection" idea.

Well, there are certainly boats.

The projection idea makes way more sense than him using a boat. I mean, if he has all the powers that are attributed to him, including his rules and stuff, then projection doesn't seem implausible at all.



On a side note... I enjoyed the smoke monster John more than any other character in the last season. He was refreshingly honest. The chilling honesty made me grin widely many times.

 

[Tyguy]

Am I missing something? The island still isn't purgatory.

Right, but the motif is still used regardless. It's like The Six Sense writers making the statement "he's not NOT dead...."

It's a crafty deception

 

[Sheepo]

God Sheepo, that was obviously over the top sarcasm.

It's just a product of being told by people such as yourself constantly that we don't understand the show simply because we didn't like the character development revelations of certain characters, or feeling gypped with the finale.


And you saying that Jacob's cabin bothers you, shows that you feel exactly the same way that I do about something, except you feel the need to turn around and say I don't understand the show because I feel bothered about a fair number more things than you, and perhaps with an elevated intensity.

Well yes, if I hadn't realized it was sarcasm I probably wouldn't have said anything...?

Also, is it false accusation hour? No, I never told you you didn't understand the show, nor did I mention the first alleged cause. Hell, I can't say I liked the finale all that much. The only thing I've really said is that it's sort of unreasonable for you to be upset at a show because it spent the finale resolving its primary plot rather than explaining every detail of the background and mystery of the island that you were remotely interested in.

And yes, I was left with unanswered questions (real questions, not 'Why is the island magic durr hurr') about how the island works. I'm annoyed by them, and I'm left to speculate, but I'm not about to whine my ass off because I can't swallow the premise of the show.

The projection idea makes way more sense than him using a boat. I mean, if he has all the powers that are attributed to him, including his rules and stuff, then projection doesn't seem implausible at all.



On a side note... I enjoyed the smoke monster John more than any other character in the last season. He was refreshingly honest. The chilling honesty made me grin widely many times.

Yeah, that's why I don't like the boat idea because it's actually far less plausible than the alternative.

And yeah, kind of a tie between MIB and Jack for the past season, disregarding the Alts.

Right, but the motif is still used regardless. It's like The Six Sense writers making the statement "he's not NOT dead...."

It's a crafty deception

Not sure I understand, the Six Sense thing, but the island is symbolic of dozens of themes for all the characters. Judgement, yes, but also punishment, exile, salvation, purpose, redemption, life, death. And everything there ties so well back into the real world that we know that the island really is just an actual island.

 

[Tyguy]

And everything there ties so well back into the real world that we know that the island really is just an actual island.

Based on what I saw the island is anything but just an island.

Anyway, this was a fun thread but i feel it's surpassed futility. Some of us liked the finale and some of us have high school diplomas

 

[Sheepo]

You know what I mean. Based on that post I'm guessing you're on the 'Dislike' side?

 

[Raziaar]

Well yes, if I hadn't realized it was sarcasm I probably wouldn't have said anything...?

No, the point wasn't that it was sarcasm, it was that it was WAY OVER THE TOP sarcasm. Intentionally overblown.

And yes, I was left with unanswered questions (real questions, not 'Why is the island magic durr hurr') about how the island works. I'm annoyed by them, and I'm left to speculate, but I'm not about to whine my ass off because I can't swallow the premise of the show.Yeah, that's why I don't like the boat idea because it's actually far less plausible than the alternative.

Why is the island magic? Yeah... I didn't see anybody ask something so pointlessly simple. The questions about the Island involve all the complexities and depth of the mysteries presented us in seemingly very important ways.. not a simple stupid question like your straw man there.

 

[Sheepo]

Well at least I directed it towards the naysayers as a whole rather than just making some shit up about you personally, like you did to me. No, looks like you're in the 'Give me the entire history of the island in 5 words or less!' club, which has the same problem, just replace 'Why is the island magic?' with 'When was everything on the island made and who made it and why'd they make it and where did they come from?'. If that's not what you're into, then I don't know what you're into. The only thing I see mentioned in the last page or two by you is the statue and the lighthouse.

 

[Raziaar]

Well at least I directed it towards the naysayers as a whole rather than just making some shit up about you personally, like you did to me. No, looks like you're in the 'Give me the entire history of the island in 5 words or less!' club, which has the same problem, just replace 'Why is the island magic?' with 'When was everything on the island made and who made it and why'd they make it and where did they come from?'. If that's not what you're into, then I don't know what you're into. The only thing I see mentioned in the last page or two by you is the statue and the lighthouse.

Where did I make shit up about you? If I did any such thing I apologize, but I don't remember doing anything of the sort.



I don't give a damn about the entire history of the Island. I give a damn about the major elements, the fabric of the Island that has been presented to us countless times to spur interest that goes beyond any sort of character development.

I mean, you can't honestly tell me that the numbers weren't presented in such a way that begged you to ask deeper questions about them... only to have them never really explored to any satisfactory depth.

 

[Sheepo]

The part where you accuse me of claiming all naysayers don't 'understand the show' and that you're unjustly griping, simply because you didn't like the ending. I generalized your vaguely negative group and put you in it, but you did the same to me with the positive group.

And yeah, I'll concede that the numbers was one of the things that could've used more elaboration.

 

[Blackthorn]

Well the numbers weren't exactly planned. They received a positive response from the fanbase so they were repeated throughout the show. It's more of the shows own inside joke than a for srs theme.

 

[Raziaar]

The part where you accuse me of claiming all naysayers don't 'understand the show' and that you're unjustly griping, simply because you didn't like the ending. I generalized your vaguely negative group and put you in it, but you did the same to me with the positive group.

And yeah, I'll concede that the numbers was one of the things that could've used more elaboration.

Well, I apologize for that. I seem to have mistaken you and Warped earlier. I thought it was you(not at the time, but later on in the thread progression) who said we don't understand the show.

But it was Warped and Samon and some others.

Well the numbers weren't exactly planned. They received a positive response from the fanbase so they were repeated throughout the show. It's more of the shows own inside joke than a for srs theme.

Well... perhaps. I didn't know any of that.

However, they were so heavily saturated within the show that I figured they might lead to some juicy stuff eventually.

 

[Sheepo]

Yeah, I kind of got the impression of that Blackthorn, but it was still somewhat silly how much importance it had with Hurley and then it just seems to disappear.

 

[Raziaar]

I didn't quite understand Hurley's Purgatory. I mean... from what I remember, he didn't seem to have any obstacles to overcome, other than the fact that he had the best of luck all of the time which may mean he overcame his bad luck which was one of the things that really plagued him and he had so much difficulty with.

Everybody else seemed to have to work out their problems, whereas Hurley seemingly had no problems to work out, other than the possibility that it all happened off screen like I said.

It could also be the fact that he was most at peace when it came to being a protector of the Island, though we never saw what trials and tribulations he and Ben had to endure. I mean, he was a protector of the Island, and maybe that has something to do with it. Supernatural powers in the afterlife! Jacob also had powers after he technically died, though confined to the real world.

 

[Blackthorn]

Maybe Hurley was such a good guy there were no problems to work out. In his pre-island days, all his issues were down to external factors, not flaws within himself (though a skinny Hurley in the flashsideways would be ****ing fantastic). And given his duty in the post-Jacob years, chances are he earned it entirely.

Edit: Actually, Hurley had a problem with the ladies. I remember an episode's flashbacks were dedicated to it. This was resolved with him finally getting that kiss with Libby.

Edit edit: Was I the only one that found Libby a hell of a lot hotter than I remembered her being?

 

[Raziaar]

Maybe Hurley was such a good guy there were no problems to work out. In his pre-island days, all his issues were down to external factors, not flaws within himself (though a skinny Hurley in the flashsideways would be ****ing fantastic). And given his duty in the post-Jacob years, chances are he earned it entirely.

Edit: Actually, Hurley had a problem with the ladies. I remember an episode's flashbacks were dedicated to it. This was resolved with him finally getting that kiss with Libby.

Edit edit: Was I the only one that found Libby a hell of a lot hotter than I remembered her being?

Oh, that's right he had the thing with Libby in the Purgatory world. I forgot about that. And he mentioned his problems with women.

 

[Blackthorn]

I thought there were hieroglyphs on the cork, turns out it's a little older than that:

The plug in the Source has markings on it, the clearest of which is some cuneiform script - a form of writing used for a very long time by different civilizations in the area that is now Iraq, notably Akkadian/Sumerian language groups C5000-1000BC.

Interesting stuff. I had a theory after Across the Sea that the light was some form of collective conscience for mankind, formed when humans transitioned into creatures of a higher consciousness. Given Cuneiform appeared during a period of great advancement for humans across the globe (for example, the wheel), I may have been onto something.

Edit: Holy balls! I discovered these things called Cuneiform cones. Type it into Google images, you get some amazing stuff:

I've gotta find out about these things, this is too similar.

 

[Sheepo]

This is exciting, but not as exciting as your PM led me to believe. I honestly thought I was going to have to put out an internet fire or something. Almost identical, yeah. What culture does it come from?

 

[Blackthorn]

Well maybe when you were a child you didn't dream about being Indiana Jones like I did.

From what little information the internet is giving me, they're Sumerian. They're called foundation cones and they're placed in the foundations of or inside temples. The inscriptions give a history of how/why it was built. The internet is shitty for information on ancient history, this looks like a library job.

Edit: Worth noting the Sumerians are the oldest known civilization, which supports my theory above.

Edit edit: Oh, Wikipedia has an article about them. That would've made my life easier.

 

[Sheepo]

I certainly did, but that doesn't change the fact that I alerted all emergency service providers and told them to converge on this thread. And yeah, I know all about Sumer (I play Age of Empires).

 

[Yorick]

And yeah, I know all about Sumer (I play Age of Empires).

Might be one of the funniest things I've ever read in this forum.

 

[brad92]

I've watched 'The End' several times now, and I have extremely little negativity for the way it all turned out. A few scenes became retrospectively cheesy. The Sawyer/Juliet reunion is a bit hard to stomach. But I was more disappointed - though only very marginally - with Richard's role in the events that transpired. I thought his character received as perfect a closure as he could have reasonably gotten; finally aging and living a normal life free of the internal and external conflict that had plagued him for so long. But he just did so very, very little. Half the season was him just running around like a maniac trying to blow a plane up.

I got the whole concept of humanizing Richard and abolishing that overly enigmatic image he had garnered over the years - giving him a past, personal conflict, and motives that one could relate to and understand - but I don't think it was a good idea to just make him, you know, so ultimately useless. He was built up as this character who was so intertwined with the struggles taking place on the Island over so many years, and supposedly 'knowing what to do next' and all that, but he did nothing that could be considered even remotely significant. His 'victory' in 'The End' feels sort of hollow as a consequence because he did very little to get to that point, when it was sort of established that he should have done so much more.

 

[ríomhaire]

I've been glancing at this thread but I haven't read all of it so forgive me if some came up with this already. Here's my take on the light and the sickness:
The light is inside everyone and that's apparently a very good thing and if the light goes out we're all ****ed. I think the sickness that Claire, Sayid and the French people got is the light going out. I don't think the light is goodness and the light going out makes you evil. I think Yorik was asking a while back why Sayid was able to be good in the end when his light was supposed to be gone out. I think the light is just what gives you feeling and happiness and that. Sayid says "I don't feel anything any more." I think that's what the light is. He was still Sayid and he could still do good. He decided to be good but couldn't feel any happiness over it because his light had gone out. That's why the light was good and the magic rock needed to stay in the magic evil-blocking pool of water.

 

[Sheepo]

I've watched 'The End' several times now, and I have extremely little negativity for the way it all turned out. A few scenes became retrospectively cheesy. The Sawyer/Juliet reunion is a bit hard to stomach. But I was more disappointed - though only very marginally - with Richard's role in the events that transpired. I thought his character received as perfect a closure as he could have reasonably gotten; finally aging and living a normal life free of the internal and external conflict that had plagued him for so long. But he just did so very, very little. Half the season was him just running around like a maniac trying to blow a plane up.

I got the whole concept of humanizing Richard and abolishing that overly enigmatic image he had garnered over the years - giving him a past, personal conflict, and motives that one could relate to and understand - but I don't think it was a good idea to just make him, you know, so ultimately useless. He was built up as this character who was so intertwined with the struggles taking place on the Island over so many years, and supposedly 'knowing what to do next' and all that, but he did nothing that could be considered even remotely significant. His 'victory' in 'The End' feels sort of hollow as a consequence because he did very little to get to that point, when it was sort of established that he should have done so much more.

I think after watching it, I come out about 50% satisfied. All of that 50% is in the Alternate.

 

[Yorick]

A few days ago I started watching the entire series over from the beginning, which I advise all of you to do as well. If you're in America, I'm pretty sure that ABC.com still has every single episode available online.

Anyway, here's a few things that I noticed in the first half of Season 1.

- The first person that Jack saves is with the help of John Locke.

- Phrases like Charlie saying to Jack, "No offense mate, but if there was one person on this island I would put my absolute faith in to save us all, it would be John Locke." have become unbearably heartbreaking.

- At one point in Season 6, The Man in Black tells Jack that he lead him to the caves, that everything he's ever done was to help them. I noticed that he DOES in fact lead them to the caves, but only after trying to get Jack to chase him off of a cliff (where he's saved by none other than John Locke)

- In "Hearts and Minds", John Locke gives Boone something to make him trip balls and get over his incest-is-best relationship with Shannon. So, you know, in this vision that Boone has, Shannon dies, and he finds her body in the same place the Man in Blacks is after he becomes the Smoke Monster, the same place Jack's is. You don't notice it in this episode because the cave isn't emitting the light, but it's the same place.

 

[knut]

i'm watching the entire thing with some friends at uni. this is the only way to get them to ever sit down and watch all of the wire with me, so i thought what the **** - if anything, after this shite they'll finally see how bad it is and then i'll have more people to be snobby with about the wire.

anyway, all that said it's good fun, if just for watching my good friends gasp at the cliffhangers and developments, then try to keep quiet as best i can when they go on to speculate and predict the next few episodes. last saturday we powered through ten episodes till 7 in the morning with the help of lots of crisps, curry and weed. was good fun, i can't wait to move into our new house so it'll be a lot comfier than university halls. we're half way through season 3 right now.

 

[brad92]

- In "Hearts and Minds", John Locke gives Boone something to make him trip balls and get over his incest-is-best relationship with Shannon. So, you know, in this vision that Boone has, Shannon dies, and he finds her body in the same place the Man in Blacks is after he becomes the Smoke Monster, the same place Jack's is. You don't notice it in this episode because the cave isn't emitting the light, but it's the same place.

Interesting! What's the significance of this, you think?

 

[Rizzo]

They used the same location when filming.