LOST: Destiny Found

[Warped]

I don't understand your logic. We should stop questioning the quality and satisfaction as well as many of the plot points of what was presented to us... so that we may shed ourselves of destructive fanboyism?

Right.

No thats not what I'm saying, but when you obsess over the small stuff you're going to get stressed over trivial things. Just let it go and enjoy the show for what it was, a really good drama that held your interest

 

[StardogChampion]

No thats not what I'm saying, but when you obsess over the small stuff you're going to get stressed over trivial things. Just let it go and enjoy the show for what it was, a really good drama that held your interest

... because we were so invested that giving up would've been a pain in the ass. We thought the interesting things answered.

 

[Raziaar]

No thats not what I'm saying, but when you obsess over the small stuff you're going to get stressed over trivial things. Just let it go and enjoy the show for what it was, a really good drama that held your interest

It's not small stuff. I don't know how you see it as small stuff. I mean what the heck... the history and mysteries of the Island are small stuff to you? I mean, even if you didn't care about them personally, I don't see how you can dismiss them as small stuff.

The entire series is about the characters... and about the mysterious island. The entirety of the series have been them surviving on the Island and... dealing with and trying to figure out the mysteries of the Island. Small stuff? Not in the slightest.

I do enjoy the show for what it was... a really good drama... that happened to disappoint me in some very profound ways concerning all the mysteries that were thrown at us left completely unsolved. The biggest of the big, the smallest of the small. I find it ridiculous that people can just sit there and say the characters are all that matter. I mean, have they been watching the whole show? I'm highly capable of a multi dimensional focus when watching a series, and when they TOLD us we'd be getting some answers to things, I kind of half hoped they would actually be truthful about doing just that.


I personally find the whole "the characters stories, those are the things we really care about" is a weak way of saying, "We already knew what we had... so we're going to go with that instead of also including things we're entirely incapable of answering in a well written way, since we know as shit little as you do because we made it all up along the way"

 

[Warped]

It's not small stuff. I don't know how you see it as small stuff. I mean what the heck... the history and mysteries of the Island are small stuff to you? I mean, even if you didn't care about them personally, I don't see how you can dismiss them as small stuff.

The entire series is about the characters... and about the mysterious island. The entirety of the series have been them surviving on the Island and... dealing with and trying to figure out the mysteries of the Island. Small stuff? Not in the slightest.

I do enjoy the show for what it was... a really good drama... that happened to disappoint me in some very profound ways concerning all the mysteries that were thrown at us left completely unsolved. The biggest of the big, the smallest of the small. I find it ridiculous that people can just sit there and say the characters are all that matter. I mean, have they been watching the whole show? I'm highly capable of a multi dimensional focus when watching a series, and when they TOLD us we'd be getting some answers to things, I kind of half hoped they would actually be truthful about doing just that.



I personally find the whole "the characters stories, those are the things we really care about" is a weak way of saying, "We already knew what we had... so we're going to go with that instead of also including things we're entirely incapable of answering in a well written way, since we know as shit little as you do because we made it all up along the way"

They're in an alternate universe, they're in purgatory, what more has to make sense. I'm pretty sure the creator of the alt universe had to cut corners to make the place seem real all this time. Imagine trying to help dozens of people get on the same page in life, but they keep struggling with their old life. we watched 6 seasons of a fantasy world, something out of the ordinary, and it does not shock me in the least that half the puzzle wasn't solved. what matters is that the major question: why were we here on that island was answered. To me, the series creators/writers gave me just that and I myself am fine with it.

and your wrong, the biggest mystery was answered, it was a island that fixed them all. it resolved most of their problems and all accepted it for what its worth. some did it early, others just at the last minute

 

[Raziaar]

Sorry but the Island didn't fix them all. Not... even... close. Do you forget all the characters and their tragic fates? Dead prematurely and in many cases horrendously without any beneficial merit, especially not to themselves. They didn't right the wrongs in their lives before they were cut short.

 

[Warped]

Sorry but the Island didn't fix them all. Not... even... close. Do you forget all the characters and their tragic fates? Dead prematurely and in many cases horrendously without any beneficial merit, especially not to themselves. They didn't right the wrongs in their lives before they were cut short.

who Echo?? Anna Lucia?? maybe some others?? they probably went to hell. but for the people you grew mostly attached to, they were easily something you could grab onto. all the others were prime examples of what not to do

 

[Yorick]

Sorry but the Island didn't fix them all. Not... even... close. Do you forget all the characters and their tragic fates? Dead prematurely and in many cases horrendously without any beneficial merit, especially not to themselves. They didn't right the wrongs in their lives before they were cut short.

That's kinda how life works.

 

[Blackthorn]

Sorry but the Island didn't fix them all. Not... even... close. Do you forget all the characters and their tragic fates? Dead prematurely and in many cases horrendously without any beneficial merit, especially not to themselves. They didn't right the wrongs in their lives before they were cut short.

You know Smokey had a lot of involvement in that, probably more than we know. That's the history of things: Jacob brings people to the island, Smokey tests/corrupts/kills them, in the process proving to Jacob the flaws of humans whilst also furthering his plan to escape. It's safe to assume Smokey got Ben to purge Dharma, for example, wiping out a significant number of potential candidates and showing the evil Ben was capable of. And remember Jacob took a hands-off approach, he didn't believe had should have to help people make the right decisions. It's quite a dilemma in real life too, bad people are likely to manipulate and exploit to achieve what they want, while good people won't, giving an unfortunate advantage to the former.

 

[Asknoone]

they're in purgatory

No, they're not.

 

[brad92]

No, they're not.

Are you so sure you want to just, you know, dismiss that so unconditionally?

I don't think that's fair. I wasn't exactly aware that there was a right or wrong here.

The show - despite it's many layers - never gave any explicit indication that they weren't in purgatory. You said earlier that labeling it as such might be a disservice. I don't exactly disagree. But I don't think that anyone should be told that they are wrong for believing or interpreting it as such. That is their choice, and they are more than entitled to have it.

 

[Yorick]

I'd argue that Christian Shephard himself discounts it as being Purgatory.

Christian: "Well there is no now, here."
Jack: "Where are we, dad?"
Christian: "This is a place that you, that you all made together, so that you could find one another. The most important part of your life was the time that you spent with these people. That's why all of you are here."

I don't think it's purgatory. It might sound a bit silly, but I feel like the Island did it. I've been racking my brain trying to figure out why the Island would be sunk in that timeline / reality / existence / whatever, and I couldn't get anything to click, until Ross said "It sank itself for them". And I think that's incredibly true. I think The Island, and their connection with it, is created that place for them.

Purgatory implies judgment, it implies something that (most) everyone goes through when they die, to get them ready for Heaven. I don't think that's the case here. I like to think that this was special for these people, for the sacrifices they made.

 

[brad92]

Which could be entirely true. And I love that idea. But it is, once again, simply an interpretation (a good one, at that) based off of something that is, when all is said and done, quite vague.

I'm not personally a proponent of the purgatory angle. But I won't discount it.

I mean, we know that a bit of the light is 'within every man'. It's not exactly limited to just the Island and those who have had direct experiences with it. I don't think it's a stretch to say that any human being in the world can create their own sort of afterlife in the way the flash-sideways was, where they can reunite with those who meant the most to them during the most important parts of their lives.

There's also the whole thing with Ben and not being able to go with the rest of the group which sort of complicates the matter.

Purgatory implies judgment, it implies something that (most) everyone goes through when they die, to get them ready for Heaven. I don't think that's the case here.

What I extrapolated from the whole sideways scenario was that each of these characters had to judge themselves before they could 'move on'. You know, letting go. Ben, I think, is the most overt example of this. He obviously 'wasn't ready yet', to use Hawking's words. These characters not only had to find each other, but they had to, in large part, figure themselves out definitively before they were ready to go into the Church. For John, it was letting go of his bitterness and casting aside the wheelchair. For Jack, it involved getting over his father issues (through his son, David), receiving the pride he always wanted from his father, fixing and shaking hands with John, the man who ultimately convinced him to do what he was destined to do, and hugging Boone, the man he couldn't save.

 

[hot564231]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10fbQh4gZ8k

 

[Sheepo]

We'll never know... and... no. All that stuff was in there so we could enjoy the "character development" of Sayid asking why it only has four toes... and whatever other quips were made about it.

When I first saw the statue foot and the four toes, I was intrigued as shit... and when they said things would be answered about it... I was excited. But to realize nothing was told about it, and we simply discovered it was a place for Jacob to call home... I am pissed!

I genuinely see where the 'disappointed with lack of answers' camp is coming from (things like Hawking's borderline omniscience and the infertility thing still bother me), but it's this absurdity that keep me from taking most of you seriously. The huge mystery of the statue. Look here, I'll answer it for you:

"A real long time ago a whole bunch of ancient people, probably Egyptians, built a big ****ing statue on the island."

Wanting things explained, I see that. Wanting to see every detail of the entire history of the island just because you think the show has some obligation to do it, I don't see that.

 

[Ravioli]

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291

This.

Although a few of those questions could be answered by just thinking a bit.

 

[hot564231]

What's an oil spill have to do with lost?

 

[Ravioli]

**** wrong video, hold on let me get the right link.

EDIT:

here

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291

 

[Raziaar]

I genuinely see where the 'disappointed with lack of answers' camp is coming from (things like Hawking's borderline omniscience and the infertility thing still bother me), but it's this absurdity that keep me from taking most of you seriously. The huge mystery of the statue. Look here, I'll answer it for you:

"A real long time ago a whole bunch of ancient people, probably Egyptians, built a big ****ing statue on the island."

Wanting things explained, I see that. Wanting to see every detail of the entire history of the island just because you think the show has some obligation to do it, I don't see that.

You just don't understand what the Statue represents to most people. It doesn't represent just a statue. It represents a possibility of peolpe who have ****ing answers. In addition to that, it represents a depth of those answers... cool things, mysterious things like why the light exists, and why and how it turns people into smoke monsters or whatever the hell... why it can control fate, why people stay stuck on it after they die and cannot leave.

From everything we've been shown, nobody has any real answers. Not Jacob's psycho mom, not Jacob, not the Man in Black, not Jack, not anybody else. They only have what they believe, and some extra stuff they've been given, like Jacob and the Man in Black. But beyond that, they know shit.

Surely at some point in time, maybe back when the statue was made, people knew what the **** was going on... people had some real answers.

I mean, unless the Island is from time immemorial and nobody ever knew shit, which would just bug the hell out of me.


The statue doesn't represent me just wanting to know about the statue... the statue is a major piece in my feelings about the mythology of the island... a mythology that obviously vastly predates Jacob and everybody else we've seen.





Discontented Fans: What about this, what about that... why were no big, important questions answered?
Lost Writers: What?


True to Lost spirit.

 

[Asknoone]

You just don't understand what the Statue represents to most people. It doesn't represent just a statue. It represents a possibility of peolpe who have ****ing answers. In addition to that, it represents a depth of those answers... cool things, mysterious things like why the light exists, and why and how it turns people into smoke monsters or whatever the hell... why it can control fate, why people stay stuck on it after they die and cannot leave.

"Cool things"

I think you've misunderstood the show. Indeed, I think you've misunderstood a lot of things -- I don't think you actually get it. By that, I mean you don't understand the nature or workings of mystery: an integral part of the show and its storytelling apparatus.

The questions you have asked require no explanation to further elucidate the show. Why does the Light exists? It just does. It's really like asking why the universe exists. It isn't something you can even begin to answer succinctly. The meaning and nature of the Light is a metaphysical property of the Island, reaching out to the overarching network of the show. The Mother describes it as "Life, death, rebirth", themes that resonate at the core of Lost. It does not matter 'why' and 'how' it turned the Man in Black into the Smoke Monster; there's enough evidence there to extrapolate that his bitter soul, so infused with hatred, reacted in some way with that light, creating a kind of duality. To demand a ****ing flowchart on the process is worthless. The show does not need to hark back to day 1.0 for the Island. It's enough that we see and understand that this Island is important, because there's all these things happening that we have no logical basis for. You ask why it can control fate, yet what even is fate to be controlled? That's a bit of a circulatory question, don't you think?

The show is asking you to think about it.

Surely at some point in time, maybe back when the statue was made, people knew what the **** was going on... people had some real answers.

What is a Real Answer *tm?

The questions you're asking are questions that do not need to be answered.

 

[Solaris]

Samon, I don't think you're being completely honest here.

We're all aware and recognise the beauty in the show, the themes, the characters and the way the island was a tool to allow this story to be told.

However, you can't pretend that the intracasies and story behind the Island and why it was there were secondary details to the show. It's what kept people watching, almost every episode deliberately ended with a hatch being unveiled, a statue appearing, micheals son being taken. These things were the main things of the show to a lot of people, and given that the show used this mystery and endlessly strung the viewers along by unveiling deeper mysteries the writers knew this too.

With the whole story of the light and the happy Christian ending, I and others feel a bit let down. It feels like a lame cop out, they created so many mysteries that in the end they had to make some bullshit explanation to solve it all.

 

[Blackthorn]

happy Christian ending

What exactly was Christian about it? The afterlife? Because that's a feature of just about every single religion/mythology throughout human history. It was a happy spiritual ending, but not Christian. I thought the stained glass window depicting symbols from many faiths would help deflect the inevitable Christianity backlash.

 

[dfc05]

After having time to think, I feel ok with the ending in general, but I didn't quite like how they dealt with the light. All this time everybody's saying how The Light is supposed to be completely important (as in, putting out the light destroys all the goodness in humanity -- lol). But from its representation in the show, it didn't even seem that important. For one, the mother made it sound like once you put out the light, it was gone forever. But in reality, you just needed to put the cork back on, which didn't appear to be all that difficult (heck, taking off the cork was insanely more difficult than putting it back on). Secondly, nothing particularly bad seemed to happen once the light went out. I was expecting all kinds of crazy horrible crap, kinda like a Pandora's Box maybe, but honestly it just looked like a volcano.

So yeah, everything's fine and dandy character-wise, but I still find the mythical backdrop to be a little silly, for lack of a better word.

 

[brad92]

With the whole story of the light and the happy Christian ending, I and others feel a bit let down. It feels like a lame cop out, they created so many mysteries that in the end they had to make some bullshit explanation to solve it all.

I think you've absolutely missed his entire point.

I thought the stained glass window depicting symbols from many faiths would help deflect the inevitable Christianity backlash.

Not for those viewers who are, dare I say, moronic?

 

[Raziaar]

"Cool things"

I think you've misunderstood the show. Indeed, I think you've misunderstood a lot of things -- I don't think you actually get it. By that, I mean you don't understand the nature or workings of mystery: an integral part of the show and its storytelling apparatus.

The questions you have asked require no explanation to further elucidate the show. Why does the Light exists? It just does. It's really like asking why the universe exists. It isn't something you can even begin to answer succinctly. The meaning and nature of the Light is a metaphysical property of the Island, reaching out to the overarching network of the show. The Mother describes it as "Life, death, rebirth", themes that resonate at the core of Lost. It does not matter 'why' and 'how' it turned the Man in Black into the Smoke Monster; there's enough evidence there to extrapolate that his bitter soul, so infused with hatred, reacted in some way with that light, creating a kind of duality. To demand a ****ing flowchart on the process is worthless. The show does not need to hark back to day 1.0 for the Island. It's enough that we see and understand that this Island is important, because there's all these things happening that we have no logical basis for. You ask why it can control fate, yet what even is fate to be controlled? That's a bit of a circulatory question, don't you think?

The show is asking you to think about it.



What is a Real Answer *tm?

The questions you're asking are questions that do not need to be answered.

"You don't understand anything because you didn't like the ending or the direction of lack of revelation of anything... I understand everything because I was fine with the ending."

Yeah okay... I get it already. That's been elucidated ad nauseam.

Sorry... but the Man In Black is a weak character. His "bitter soul". I mean... in my opinion they completely ruined the character when they aired the episode where they were kids on the Island. Okay maybe "ruined" is a bit strong of a word... but they made him entirely less interesting. The revelation of why he's so bitter and who he is was actually worse than what one could have provided with their own imagination.

In light of that... maybe it's best they didn't reveal anything about any of the stuff... because their poor efforts may have numbed their previous storytelling grandeur.

 

[xcellerate]

I do feel a little let down by the show, and basically what it comes down to is having way too many episodes to tell such a simple story.

I put up with a lot of annoying characters and dialog and the end just didn't pay off. I haven't seen any of the earlier episodes in years but I remember see this conversation like 4x an episodes:
Character A: Hey where'd you go/what'd he say/what happened?
Character B: Don't worry about it.

And when they finally met the dharma people, nobody wanted to be civil, "hey sorry, we don't want to be here but can we just talk for a second." Instead they're all waving guns, keeping secrets and attacking everybody. Great strategy.

 

[Sheepo]

"You don't understand anything because you didn't like the ending or the direction of lack of revelation of anything... I understand everything because I was fine with the ending."

Yeah okay... I get it already. That's been elucidated ad nauseam.

Sorry... but the Man In Black is a weak character. His "bitter soul". I mean... in my opinion they completely ruined the character when they aired the episode where they were kids on the Island. Okay maybe "ruined" is a bit strong of a word... but they made him entirely less interesting. The revelation of why he's so bitter and who he is was actually worse than what one could have provided with their own imagination.

In light of that... maybe it's best they didn't reveal anything about any of the stuff... because their poor efforts may have numbed their previous storytelling grandeur.

Bizarre post. I hesitate to call this a concession, but it certainly seems to be. I can see how 'Across the Sea' might have put a bad taste in your mouth (though in terms of characterizing MIB, I thought it was great), but in a way that proves my point. 'The Light', was never a necessary aspect of the island to create or show us. Any vague hint at a core or power source of the island was suitable, but people wanted a concrete thing to look at and say 'That's why the island does incredible stuff' but instead they're asking 'What is the light and why the **** does it cause the island to do incredible stuff?'. With anything that has a premise based in science fiction or fantasy, at a certain point you have to accept 'This is the way the world works', you have to have given information to accept if you want to enjoy the show. No one knows the 'real answers', not the writers, not the actors, not the audience, because it's a concept that represents giving a real world explanation to phenomenon that cannot exist in the real world.

 

[Raziaar]

Bizarre post. I hesitate to call this a concession, but it certainly seems to be. I can see how 'Across the Sea' might have put a bad taste in your mouth (though in terms of characterizing MIB, I thought it was great), but in a way that proves my point. 'The Light', was never a necessary aspect of the island to create or show us. Any vague hint at a core or power source of the island was suitable, but people wanted a concrete thing to look at and say 'That's why the island does incredible stuff' but instead they're asking 'What is the light and why the **** does it cause the island to do incredible stuff?'. With anything that has a premise based in science fiction or fantasy, at a certain point you have to accept 'This is the way the world works', you have to have given information to accept if you want to enjoy the show. No one knows the 'real answers', not the writers, not the actors, not the audience, because it's a concept that represents giving a real world explanation to phenomenon that cannot exist in the real world.

You know... honestly, I didn't like the light either. I rolled my eyes at it. And it was frustrating to have them introduce something like that and really have no further explanation other than the silly displays we've been shown(cork and all). I could have done without all of the stuff from that episode, concerning Jacob, concerning the Man in Black, concerning the heart of the island.

If that episode didn't exist at all, I would probably be more content about how the series ended(albeit adjusted for lacking the elements of that episode).

I'm more hurt by the aspects that I feel were ruined about the show, particularly the Man in Black and Jacob... than I was about lack of explanations about certain things.

 

[knut]

WORST PART OF THE FINALE WAS THAT KATE DIDN'T ****ING DIE

JESUS CHRIST

edit: i mean on the island or whenever

 

[Krynn72]

Just watched the finale (and the episode before it) since I couldn't watch them any time up 'til now. I obviously avoided this thread until I saw it, and I came here afterwards to see what kind of discussions were going on about it. I managed to read up to page 22 (40 posts per page) and I started raging so hard.

The ending was great. Not perfect, but still great. I'm so glad they ended it the right way, by not explaining all the little mysterious things (that none of the characters in the show ever knew anything about either) and they focused on ending the show by resolving the characters' stories.

I don't really want to start another Adrik style argument over this, but after reading the shitfest most of you guys made up to this point in the thread, I need to say this.

NONE OF THE CHARACTERS KNOW JACK SHIT ABOUT THE ISLAND. NOT ANY OF THEM. NOT EVEN THE MINOR CHARACTERS. How could you have possibly expected shit like the Egyptian architecture, or the light to be explained when nobody, NOT ANYONE, in the show was around from the beginning? The oldest person we ever saw on the Island was Jacob's fake mother. And she obviously wasn't there for long either (relatively speaking). Like Adrik was saying, the show is about the characters we met on the first episode. Not only is the back-story of the Island irrelevant, but any method of explaining it would actually be a cop-out. The finale as it is was NOT a cop out by any stretch, and is exactly how the show should have ended. If they invented some character, and some far-fetched reason for them to exist in a relationship with the characters with whom this story revolves, THAT would have been a cop out.

You guys are ridiculous, and ruined my night.

 

[Yorick]

The oldest person we ever saw on the Island was Jacob's fake mother. And she obviously wasn't there for long either (relatively speaking).

Well, we don't necessarily know that. She could have been there for thousands of years for all we know. Like the rest of the Protectors, she never seemed to age.

I have a lot of trouble believing anything she says, though, since the entire episode portrays her as a murderer, a cynic, and a psychopath. So when she talks about the light being inside everyone, I kind of have to raise an eyebrow.

I think you're right, though, in that I don't think she knew all that much either.

 

[Raziaar]

Just watched the finale (and the episode before it) since I couldn't watch them any time up 'til now. I obviously avoided this thread until I saw it, and I came here afterwards to see what kind of discussions were going on about it. I managed to read up to page 22 (40 posts per page) and I started raging so hard.

The ending was great. Not perfect, but still great. I'm so glad they ended it the right way, by not explaining all the little mysterious things (that none of the characters in the show ever knew anything about either) and they focused on ending the show by resolving the characters' stories.

I don't really want to start another Adrik style argument over this, but after reading the shitfest most of you guys made up to this point in the thread, I need to say this.

NONE OF THE CHARACTERS KNOW JACK SHIT ABOUT THE ISLAND. NOT ANY OF THEM. NOT EVEN THE MINOR CHARACTERS. How could you have possibly expected shit like the Egyptian architecture, or the light to be explained when nobody, NOT ANYONE, in the show was around from the beginning? The oldest person we ever saw on the Island was Jacob's fake mother. And she obviously wasn't there for long either (relatively speaking). Like Adrik was saying, the show is about the characters we met on the first episode. Not only is the back-story of the Island irrelevant, but any method of explaining it would actually be a cop-out. The finale as it is was NOT a cop out by any stretch, and is exactly how the show should have ended. If they invented some character, and some far-fetched reason for them to exist in a relationship with the characters with whom this story revolves, THAT would have been a cop out.

You guys are ridiculous, and ruined my night.

It wouldn't have been that way if they didn't make Jacob and the Man in Black a pair of clueless brats. Hmph!

 

[Krynn72]

It wouldn't have been that way if they didn't make Jacob and the Man in Black a pair of clueless brats. Hmph!

Thats what makes them both great characters. They aren't gods. They're flawed characters, no different than the other survivors. Their lack of understanding and guidance is what put the whole story on its tragic course. Jacob's immaturity led him to make a tragic mistake, one he realizes soon after he did it, and the entire show is about what happens as he tried to correct his mistake. Its the same for all the survivors, each character spends the entire show trying to correct the mistakes they made in their lives, Jacob and MIB are no different. Its ****ing brilliant if you ask me.

 

[Raziaar]

Thats what makes them both great characters. They aren't gods. They're flawed characters, no different than the other survivors. Their lack of understanding and guidance is what put the whole story on its tragic course. Jacob's immaturity led him to make a tragic mistake, one he realizes soon after he did it, and the entire show is about what happens as he tried to correct his mistake. Its the same for all the survivors, each character spends the entire show trying to correct the mistakes they made in their lives, Jacob and MIB are no different. Its ****ing brilliant if you ask me.

I just... I just wish they could have been done in a better way. I didn't find any depth to their character development during that episode, just as I didn't find any during the episode where Jacob was first revealed... as he was out in the world touching everybody and giving them candy bars and paying for their lunch pails.

It just all came across as very weak to me, and I didn't feel any further attachment to Jacob or the Man in Black due to their story in that episode, only a detachment. Maybe if they wrote something more interesting than another "The Others" story that they've done before.

I felt a true sense of disillusionment after the Man in Black, after leaving for the others and saying she wasn't their mom... and being so bitter about it... later on in the episode, and much later in life, having no issue at all calling her his mother, without any other indications or emotional development to show why he still felt that way.


And one of the things we never really saw in regards to Jacob is character development on why he was treated like some sort of all powerful being and so truly beloved. I mean, he seemed like he could be the type to place himself in high regard and want all sort of lavishment upon him, but we saw none of that. And as a result it makes some things a little confusing, like the brainwashing chamber on hydra island where it kept saying Jacob Loves You, as if Jacob thought of himself as a sort of deity and they reacted to this in such bizarre ways, or if it was just the others wild imaginations after they heard word of Jacob from Richard.

After having such vast importance in the later seasons, and for the series being all about the characters development, Jacob had surprisingly little interesting character development outside of the myth and mysteries originally surrounding him. Unless that is the entire point... that he was an entirely uninteresting dude who just so happened to be the protector. I don't really buy that that was how it was intended to be however.

 

[No Limit]

...

But how do you live on an island for centuries (possibly thousands of years) and not figure out anything more than the people that landed there a few years ago. Total disappointment.

 

[Blackthorn]

And one of the things we never really saw in regards to Jacob is character development on why he was treated like some sort of all powerful being and so truly beloved. I mean, he seemed like he could be the type to place himself in high regard and want all sort of lavishment upon him, but we saw none of that.

Pretty traditional mother issues if you ask me. His mother didn't give him as much attention as his brother, or seem to love him as much. Later in life he deifies himself (tempting, given the powers he has) so that he can receive the love and attention from his followers that he didn't receive from his mother.

****ed up mother raises children than become ****ed up. It's one of the most basic tenets of psychology.

 

[Krynn72]

But how do you live on an island for centuries (possibly thousands of years) and not figure out anything more than the people that landed there a few years ago. Total disappointment.

Are you kidding? Did you not see all the lies and made up bullshit that people were making up about the island the whole time? How could anyone learn anything when nobody around knows whats real or fake?

 

[No Limit]

Are you kidding? Did you not see all the lies and made up bullshit that people were making up about the island the whole time? How could anyone learn anything when nobody around knows whats real or fake?

If you have hundreds or even thousands of years to figure it all out I would assume you atleast learn something more than "this chick told me this so it must be true".


And they did learn things that the others didn't know about. Jacob could leave the island any time, he could bring people to it. But none of this was explained. The MIB knew he needed Ben to kill Jacob, how he got that knowledge also wasn't explained. So in one sense the writers were trying to make Jacob and the MIB seem like these godly creatures earlier in the season, then later in the season they made them out to be these clueless brothers that just ended up on the island one day. To me this is a cop out as I've said before.

But if you liked the way it ended that's your opinion and that's fine, I don't want to get in to a pissing match about this again.

 

[Sheepo]

Yeah, well that kind of reinforces the whole 'You can only know so much, this is a matter of faith' thing. Perhaps there's a magical room deep in a cavern in the island that explains how everything works with magical equations, but that would be stupid and defeat the purpose.

...

Yeah, the whole point is that they seem to know what they're doing and how things work, but it's all really a combination of luck, manipulation, and hoping it works. Being portrayed as all powerful and simultaneously simple characters and then learning they're only slightly more knowledgeable and in control than everyone else is what makes them so interesting. The MIB manipulated people, and he played his hand well, that doesn't make him godlike.

 

[No Limit]

You say interesting, I say cop out (they were there for hundreds maybe even thousands of years). But again, matter of opinion .

 

[Blackthorn]

There was no one else on the island except for people Jacob brought to the island. How exactly would they have learned anything over those hundreds of years?