|---Marijuana vs. Alcohol---|

[The Mullinator]

Marijuana, now matter how many people think it is harmless, can still cause a lot of problems with memory loss, it can still cause cancer, it is a major cause of dementia and mental problems. It is bad for you and yes, it is addictive as well.

Read the articles that I posted up, its not a sure thing that any of that is completely true, it seems to be more associated with temporary memory problems but then the brain returns to normal after a few days of absitance from hardcore marijuana smoking.

 

[pat_thetic]

Conversely, if and when drugs are legalized, their price will collapse and so will the sundry drug-related motivations to commit crime. Consumers will no longer need to steal to support their habits. A packet of cocaine will be as tempting to grab from its owner as a pack of cigarettes is today. Drug dealers will be pushed out of the retail market by known drugstore retailers. When was the last time we saw employees of Rite Aid pharmacies shoot it out with Thrift Drugs for a corner storefront? When drugs become legal, we will be able to sleep in our homes and walk the streets more safely. As one letter-writer to the Philadelphia Inquirer put it, "law-abiding citizens will be able to enjoy not living in fear of assault and burglary."


Crap, I lost the quote tag.. I'm to lzy to go back. Anways, everything before this part of the article proves this part wrong. Legalizing drugs isn't going to make crime go down.... That makes no sence at all. And yes I read the article... But it seems to be uber biased... I wish we could get a source that wasn't biased. That will never happen though.

 

[pat_thetic]

Now make a list about what bad things it would cause... I'll be back later, it's time to go do some camp stuff, I wanna go home

 

[Pogrom]

I also am a bit skeptical that all of the problems will disappear just like that *snaps fingers*

I do have a few things to say though:

1) If drugs were legalised, would the price be standardised and controlled?
And if so, where will drug abusers get the money for these new, cheaper drugs. They are not exactly reknowned for being productive citizens

2) In regards to legalised drugs being safer, and the spread of AIDS; there are alternate means of accomplishing this. The city of Sydney in Australia has been running a government sanctioned Heroin Injecting Room for over a year now. It provides sterilised needles and disposes of them safely. It also has trained medical staff on hand 24 hours a day. It also doubles as a methadone clinic.

Since they started it, instances of drug overdoses and dangerous injections (ie not real heroin) have dropped dramatically. The streets are cleaner, less needles around. Also some heroin addicts have been successfully weened onto methadone.

Street crime has also decreased.

All without the legalisation of Heroin. I believe the message is "It is still illegal, but if you are going to do it, do it safely."

More details can be found here: linky

 

[The Mullinator]

I really don't see how legalizing marijuana won't reduce crime, people are arrested for possesing marijuana, if it is no longer illegal then they won't be arrested. Will it lead to harder drugs? I don't think so, when you smoke marijuana its not like people start saying "Oh man! Suddenly I have to start sniffing cocain!!". Its not like that at all, and yes, I smoked marijuana once 2 years ago and never felt the urge to try it again or try any harder drugs as a result of the marijuana or from "peer-pressure". The reason people often go from smoking marijuana to harder drugs is because of the atmosphere that they live in, the way society views people who smoke it, the kind of people that they smoke marijuana with. However if you make marijuana legal then I don't think anyone can deny that the kind of people who you are with, and the way society will view you will change. If that changes then why is it so hard to understand that maybe it will change so that people won't feel the desire to move on to harder drugs?

So if people don't move on to harder drugs then where is all of this extra crime going to come from?

 

[Pogrom]

I really don't see how legalizing marijuana won't reduce crime, people are arrested for possesing marijuana, if it is no longer illegal then they won't be arrested. Will it lead to harder drugs? I don't think so, when you smoke marijuana its not like people start saying "Oh man! Suddenly I have to start sniffing cocain!!". Its not like that at all, and yes, I smoked marijuana once 2 years ago and never felt the urge to try it again or try any harder drugs as a result of the marijuana or from "peer-pressure". The reason people often go from smoking marijuana to harder drugs is because of the atmosphere that they live in, the way society views people who smoke it, the kind of people that they smoke marijuana with. However if you make marijuana legal then I don't think anyone can deny that the kind of people who you are with, and the way society will view you will change. If that changes then why is it so hard to understand that maybe it will change so that people won't feel the desire to move on to harder drugs?

So if people don't move on to harder drugs then where is all of this extra crime going to come from?

Your definition of reducing crime is just redefining something so it is not a crime anymore.

"Okay! Now stealing cars is not illegal!"
"Wow! Car related crimes just dropped dramatically!"

If marijuana is made legal, will it be accorded the same status as alcohol? i.e. you can't make your own (like moonshine), it can only be bought in stores with the appropriate ID?

 

[Obby]

The fact that you yourself didn't want to start other drugs is something that you chose not to do, but others aren't the same and it may affect them differently. No, Marijuana shouldn't be made legal, there's no type of medical use for it to be made legal. There's so many negative points to it and none that are positive. As for alcohol, a person who takes a drink every few months is just as likely to become an alcoholic than a person who drinks it daily. Everyone is at risk of having a dependence to it, and no one is 'immune' to a dependence.

 

[Raziaar]

It's known fact that as someone becomes more resistant to the effect of a drug, they may seek something new that gives them that same high that they once achieved when they first started the drug they are now more resistant to. It's as simple as that.

 

[AmishSlayer]

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Your basically saying that I'm being conceited if I say that I don't need to be intoxicated or high to have fun? Oh, I didn't know that. Apparently I'll have to go experiment with some drugs and alcohol to see what I've been missing all these years.

The reason I say it is because when I've heard it before, the people have been insulting anyone that drinks just because they think that drinkers drink because it's their only means of having fun or something...

Someone actually said that to me yesterday (in the intention that drinkers are bums sorta tone) and when I posted the message I was annoyed.

 

[Kadayi]

The effects of a drug whether it be legal or illegal are secondary to the acts that people perform whilst under their influence. Some fool twatted on Vodka driving a car is as dangerous as some fool bonged out of his eyeballs driving a car. Neither drug is better than the other if abused, and both have their negatives.

 

[Warbie]

Read the articles that I posted up, its not a sure thing that any of that is completely true, it seems to be more associated with temporary memory problems but then the brain returns to normal after a few days of absitance from hardcore marijuana smoking.

I know many people, including myself, who still have a worse memory due to cannabis use. Maybe its just a freaky coincidence - but I doubt it.

There were some good articles in that link. However, i'm always dubious when reading papers that seem to contradict so much with real life experience. How do they get these stats? how to they choose the test subjects? Do they represent the 'average users'? (I doubt they do tbh, as there is no such thing)

So much of drug use depends on your culture, where you live, peers, parents etc. As a result, many of these articles are of very little value imo e.g. i've read a report on dutch smokers in Amsterdamn (in my experience the dutch use cannabis quite sensibly, smoking occasionally and not using strong weed - despite it being freely available) This report would have little value if comparing it to the situation in say Coventry/Birmingham (many kids start smoking at 12-13 years old, use regularly and heavily, smoke strong weed, think it's 'cool')

Smoke weed heavily for a long time and you will be very lucky to not develop problems of some kind. I'm certain of this.

 

[Sai]

Smoke weed heavily for a long time and you will be very lucky to not develop problems of some kind. I'm certain of this.

well, that statement can easily be turned around and apply to alcohol as well, drinking alcoholic beverages for a long time and it's insured that you will develop problems of some kind

 

[Warbie]

Sure, I was just comenting on that quote, and a few of the articles from the link that The Mullinator put up (not a bad read btw)

There are other reasons, that I mentioned in a previous post, which address which drug I believe to be worst.

 

[The Mullinator]

Your definition of reducing crime is just redefining something so it is not a crime anymore.

"Okay! Now stealing cars is not illegal!"
"Wow! Car related crimes just dropped dramatically!"

If marijuana is made legal, will it be accorded the same status as alcohol? i.e. you can't make your own (like moonshine), it can only be bought in stores with the appropriate ID?

It is a crime in China to say something bad about the government in public (im assuming here), so lets say in the future that China decides to repeal that law then isn't it the same as "redefining something so it is not a crime anymore."

If marijuana is made legal then I don't see why it can't be given the same legal status as alcohal (obviously things will be different since marijuana is not alcholal), I mean it would most certainly be government controlled.

On another note maybe everyone knows this but I will say it anyway. I don't think there is a "drinking and driving" law there is a "driving under the influence" law (of course it differes from place to place). Right now anything that will have an effect on the brain while driving be it alcohal, marijuana, sleeping pills, or any other legal substance that will effect the brain is treated the same way as alcohal when someone is driving. You will be arrested and treated just as harshly for driving under the influence of alcohal as if you had taken some other form of legal perscription drug that has a negative effect on your brain that will effect your driving skills. So really no laws would have to be changed when it comes to controlling people who drive under the influence of marijuana.

 

[Alig]

I know... you're more likely to get cancer a lot faster with pot... but my point was that you can get cancer, not how fast.

No actually, weed clears your lungs out, the fags in the joint dont do you any good.

I say legalize it, it isnt addictive...ive smoked it, i think its shit..it doesnt cut it.

Booze makes you angry/up-for-a-fight with anyone who looks at you with alot of people - Weed makes you relaxed/laid back and dont give a shit.

The only problems it would cause is school lessons (people will be too stoned to care) / more people will be doing weed + alchohol = more people in hospital getting their stomach's pumped / more people sleeping in public on saturday and sunday mornings fully dressed. I did weed + alchohol about 3 weeks ago when i was on holiday and it isnt funny after about 30 minutes...i could'nt stand up if i wanted to..i was totally wasted.

 

[Tulli]

guyz ur so funny......being addicted from ganja because of smoking one or two times? lol thats really funny....for Your knowledge, marijuana is "light" drug, and in many cultures its used as a medicine. You can be addicted for heroine or LSD from using it one, two times, but not marijuana. IMHO your opinion is probably taken from fear made by media about all the drugs. Please, read something about this before taking part in discussion.

For proof, I smoked ganja last vacations something about 10-12 times and I wasn't smokiing it till now (12 months). I never thought about smoking it one more time....so I'm addicted? LOL

Greetz, Tulli.

 

[Warbie]

That's not what the topic is about Tulli.

Also, of course you're not going to get addicted after smoking weed so few times (People can take much harder drugs 10-12 times without becoming addicted))

 

[ComradeBadger]

guyz ur so funny......being addicted from ganja because of smoking one or two times? lol thats really funny....for Your knowledge, marijuana is "light" drug, and in many cultures its used as a medicine. You can be addicted for heroine or LSD from using it one, two times, but not marijuana. IMHO your opinion is probably taken from fear made by media about all the drugs. Please, read something about this before taking part in discussion.

For proof, I smoked ganja last vacations something about 10-12 times and I wasn't smokiing it till now (12 months). I never thought about smoking it one more time....so I'm addicted? LOL

Greetz, Tulli.

My views are based on my experiences!

 

[Raziaar]

Booze makes you angry/up-for-a-fight with anyone who looks at you with alot of people - Weed makes you relaxed/laid back and dont give a shit.

ONCE again, alcohol has different effects on one's brain, just like marijuana does. There are happy drunks, silly drunks, stupid drunks, ANGRY drunks. It effects everyone differently, and its exactly the same as marijuana. DOn't kid yourself thinking otherwise... and don't kid yourself thinking marijuana is safe because it may clear out your throat.

While it would normally cause lung problems, the THC dilates your bronchial tubes and cleans out your lungs. However, it doesn't clean your throat and mouth in any manner, and throat and mouth cancer may be a very real problem if you smoke marijuana very heavily.

 

[The Mullinator]

ONCE again, alcohol has different effects on one's brain, just like marijuana does. There are happy drunks, silly drunks, stupid drunks, ANGRY drunks. It effects everyone differently, and its exactly the same as marijuana. DOn't kid yourself thinking otherwise... and don't kid yourself thinking marijuana is safe because it may clear out your throat.

While it would normally cause lung problems, the THC dilates your bronchial tubes and cleans out your lungs. However, it doesn't clean your throat and mouth in any manner, and throat and mouth cancer may be a very real problem if you smoke marijuana very heavily.

I think that the comment you were refering to is from a person who was disputing someone saying that marijuana causes people to be violent.

 

[Raziaar]

I think that the comment you were refering to is from a person who was disputing someone saying that marijuana causes people to be violent.

No, it was from another person who thinks marijuana only causes you to be mellow. That's part of the 'hype' of the drug anyways. Marijuana as many drugs can alter your personality drastically when under its effect towards any direction.

 

[OoGoff]

Its stupid to say pots bad for you because so called experts with no references or background say it is. If you believe pot is bad because school or so and so, doesnt matter who, told you so then you're ignorant and cannot think for yourself. If you have smoked pot or have firsthand experiance with it and know for yourself that is it bad then I have respect for your opinion.

 

[Raziaar]

Its stupid to say pots bad for you because so called experts with no references or background say it is. If you believe pot is bad because school or so and so, doesnt matter who, told you so then you're ignorant and cannot think for yourself. If you have smoked pot or have firsthand experiance with it and know for yourself that is it bad then I have respect for your opinion.

You don't have to smoke something to know it is bad. There are COUNTLESS studies out there proving how pot causes dementia, paranoia, mouth and lung cancer. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this stuff out.

Fine. i'm going to be REALLY rude here. If you wanna smoke pot and believe you will become so damn healthy because of it, then don't come crying to me when one day you're diagnosed with terminal cancer and other mental effects with marijuana being the cause.

 

[Letters]

That's rude?

...

OoGoff, that's like saying you have had to have been an embecile for at least part of your life in order for me to respect what you have to say.

Does pot **** people up? No question there...

 

[OoGoff]

Hahaha, okay here lemme give you an exmaple of what i am saying. Lets say you and your sibling or friend are talking about guns. Your friend tells you about counter-strike and how realistic those guns in that game are. Later someone else asks how a gun fires and what it feels like and what you think about it. You cannot give a real answer because all your knowledge is from a videogame which no matter how realistic is not the real thing. You know how the gun fires and what to expect when you pull the trigger, but its what someone elses perception of what a gun is like, not your own. So in the same way someone cannot say pot is bad. They have no experiance with it, just what others have seen and statistics of it. So if you where to say a gun will fire if you pull the trigger is an obvious fact such as smoking pot will get you high, but you have not done it for yourself so the opinion of it is not yours it is only your opinion based off others opinions.

If your not following, all I am saying is.....You should not base an opinion on an opinion.
Scientist A says Carrots are bad, you agree givin certain facts. You will never know the truth if you don't do it for yourself. For all you know carrots could be good for you. If you let fear get in the way of the thought process then you let youself be tamed to think a certain way.

So later Scientist A comes along and says, cars are bad. He was right about carrots, even though no one tested for themselves and goes unchecked. Once again you take his word for it. Whats to stop him from other wild allogations.

Think for yourself.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Hahaha, okay here lemme give you an exmaple of what i am saying. Lets say you and your sibling or friend are talking about guns. Your friend tells you about counter-strike and how realistic those guns in that game are. Later someone else asks how a gun fires and what it feels like and what you think about it. You cannot give a real answer because all your knowledge is from a videogame which no matter how realistic is not the real thing. You know how the gun fires and what to expect when you pull the trigger but its gun what someone elses perception of what a gun is, not your own. So in the same way someone cannot say pot is bad. They have no experiance with it, just what others have seen and statistics of it. So if you where to say a gun will fire if you pull the trigger is an obvious fact such as smoking pot will get you high, but you have not done it for yourself so the opinion of it is not yours it is only your opinion based off others opinions.

I'd rather not increase my likelyhood of cancer so I can say "Yep, it did"

It can be replicated through scientific experiments with control groups.

 

[OoGoff]

I'd rather not increase my likelyhood of cancer so I can say "Yep, it did"

It can be replicated through scientific experiments with control groups.

Re read, it was updated.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Re read, it was updated.

It's not wild allegations. It's been proven countless times.. and the data is not just 'opinions' - you can view all the studies yourself. Scientist A doesn't just say it is without presenting a study with a control group, and being able to replicate the results. And there's scientist A - ZZZ, countless studies, all arriving at the same conclusion. I'm not going to smoke pot just so I can say it's not good for you; that's already known and proven.

The example you gave is so far fetched that it doesn't even match at all.

 

[Letters]

fact such as smoking pot will get you high

Yes, fact, not opinion.

 

[OoGoff]

Lol, my post has nothing to do with pot and if i am pro or not, the point is.

THE ONLY REAL WAY TO FIND OUT IS TO GATHER YOUR OWN FACTS ABOUT IT. IF YOU LET PEOPLE DO IT FOR YOU THEY CAN BRAIN WASH YOU INTO THEIR OPINION EASILY LATER!

Thats all. Dont be mean.

I want you letters Lol, your Avatar makes me think ur a hot chick. :naughty:

 

[Asus]

Lol, my post has nothing to do with pot and if i am pro or not, the point is.

THE ONLY REAL WAY TO FIND OUT IS TO GATHER YOUR OWN FACTS ABOUT IT. IF YOU LET PEOPLE DO IT FOR YOU THEY CAN BRAIN WASH YOU INTO THEIR OPINION EASILY LATER!

Thats all. Dont be mean.

"Jumping off a cliff is bad, says study A"
really?
let me test this for myself since I can't possibly know it to be true otherwise!

Seriously...

 

[Scotchy]

Look to the example of cigarettes: The actual cost of a pack of $5.00 cigarettes is more like $0.50 before taxes. The government make a friggin MINT on smokers. Do you think that they tax it as an incentive to make people quit!?! It's a GUARANTEED source of income.

MArijuana on the other hand, has no physical addiction attached to it. Legalization wouldn't necessarily provide that much money to the government, BUt alot more people would buy legal pot just to be on the safe side. There is plenty of room for money making.

The obvious negatives of pot: 1. Carcinogenic, 2. Will most likely reduce your motivation, 3. It will get you into trouble with the LAW.

The positives (in coparoson to other drugs and negative things): 1. Not Physicaly addictive, 2. Has benefit as a medicine, 3. Has TREMENDOUS industrial uses, 4. Guaranteed source of governmental income (we need this now more than ever).

Weigh it. Are you comfortable making decisions for everyone else?

To me the medical and industrial benefits FAR outweigh it's negatives. I'm all for legalization... or at least some form of decrimilaization like in canada.

As for alcohol, we all know it's positives and negatives... it's a non-issue.

If you're looking for mind expansion, check out Salvia Divinorum. It's legal, non habit forming, and not bad for you, u no... like in a health kind of way. Or dont.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Lol, my post has nothing to do with pot and if i am pro or not, the point is.

THE ONLY REAL WAY TO FIND OUT IS TO GATHER YOUR OWN FACTS ABOUT IT. IF YOU LET PEOPLE DO IT FOR YOU THEY CAN BRAIN WASH YOU INTO THEIR OPINION EASILY LATER!

Thats all. Dont be mean.

I want you letters Lol, your Avatar makes me think ur a hot chick. :naughty:

Considering I've SEEN what it does to people, and it happens almost every time. Kids who I grew up with, did good in elementary school, got into the 'pot' scene in middle school, and are now stoned losers who's use of the drug pretty much screwed them up. They'll be living a crappy life in the future, dropped out of school because it "took too much time out of the day" or they couldn't smoke dope during the school day without it being hard to not get caught.

I don't need to do it myself to see that it's visibly bad.

 

[Scotchy]

"Jumping off a cliff is bad, says study A"
really?
let me test this for myself since I can't possibly know it to be true otherwise!

Seriously...

Now dont be a tard

You dont need to jump off of that cliff to tell if it's going to kill you and you know that.

This man's logic is really unassailable on this issue. It applies to everything. You can't ever take someone else 100% for their word. Yuo never know what kind of agenda they have, of what they were smoking at the time. You see it all the time... from NBC nightly news slanting you against the repiblicans, to FOX news slanting you against the liberals.

Just trust yourself and do the work yourself; no shortcuts to knowledge.

 

[Neutrino]

"Jumping off a cliff is bad, says study A"
really?
let me test this for myself since I can't possibly know it to be true otherwise!

Seriously...

Sshhhhh....

You're trying to use logic and common sense now. You know that's not going to work.

Edit: As demonstrated nicely by the post above.

 

[Neutrino]

Now dont be a tard

You dont need to jump off of that cliff to tell if it's going to kill you and you know that.

This man's logic is really unassailable on this issue. It applies to everything. You can't ever take someone else 100% for their word. Yuo never know what kind of agenda they have, of what they were smoking at the time. You see it all the time... from NBC nightly news slanting you against the repiblicans, to FOX news slanting you against the liberals.

Just trust yourself and do the work yourself; no shortcuts to knowledge.

I'm assuming that you don't read textbooks then right? Since that would be a shortcut of course. You wouldn't want to be influenced by all those "experts" in physics and math and such. It's best to just stick with counting with your fingers to "do the work yourself". Makes perfect sense.

 

[OoGoff]

"Jumping off a cliff is bad, says study A"
really?
let me test this for myself since I can't possibly know it to be true otherwise!

Seriously...

Dont bother to antagonize, gather the facts for yourself, no where did i say do it yourself you stupid ****. hahaha Go shoot yourself before anyone else has the mispleasure of meeting you. :angel:

 

[Raziaar]

It's best to just stick with counting with your fingers to "do the work yourself". Makes perfect sense.

In the words of Otto the school bus driver of The Simpsons, heavy user of weed, "Wow, my fingers are awesome!" lol <shakes his head and walks away> Its so hard to read this forum without chiming in... I swear.

Dont bother to antagonize, gather the facts for yourself, no where did i say do it yourself you stupid ****. hahaha Go shoot yourself before anyone else has the mispleasure of meeting you.

Why do we need to gather the facts ourselves? We're not all expert chemists and researchers on the subject, but there are people out there who are which have overwhelming evidence. What you're saying, whether you like it or not, is to try the drug to judge it yourself. Quit trying to peer pressure me! I don't need to try it to know its unhealthy for me. lol

 

[KagePrototype]

Dont bother to antagonize, gather the facts for yourself, no where did i say do it yourself you stupid ****. hahaha Go shoot yourself before anyone else has the mispleasure of meeting you. :angel:

Well, it took eight pages, but we finally got to the flames...

It's a known fact that marijuana can harm you. You say find the facts for yourself, well if you listen to some people on here, they will tell you that they have witnessed many negative effects of pot first hand, and not from some study by "so called experts with no references or background ".

 

[OoGoff]

The point was, dont believe everything you read etc etc. Whats so hard or evil about that. If you always take someone elses word for it your at their mercy on the subject. Just drop it already.

You know what, screw it. Dont think for yourselves, let people tell you what to think and how to act. Its a lot simpler that way.