|---Marijuana vs. Alcohol---|

[KagePrototype]

The point was, dont believe everything you read etc etc. Whats so hard or evil about that. If you always take someone elses word for it your at their mercy on the subject. Just drop it already.

You know what, screw it. Dont think for yourselves, let people tell you what to think and how to act. Its a lot simpler that way.

ok



I find it funny that you want to drop the subject, yet you follow this with that sarcastic comment -- which actually raises the subject again. Make your mind up!

 

[ailevation]

:naughty: Marijuana all the WAAAAY!!!!

 

[Bad^Hat]

I don't condone the use of either but I'm all for legalising marijuana. In the words of Bill Hicks - "It grows naturally upon the Earth. Doesn't making nature against the law seem a little paranoid? It's like saying God made a mistake."

 

[Need-For-Weed]

as my name suggests, i am one of those potheads as refered too, or at least i used to be. I used a lot kinds of drugs when i was younger and studied them as well. But the fact that i used a lot does not mean i am 100% pro-dope.
I just want to give some of my statements because i read a lot of people are really naïve on the subject, but pro as contra.
Weed does different damage to the body then tabacco and alcohol, which does not mean it is either better or worse. Alcohol for instance kills way more braincells and does damage to your liver, but it does not inflict damage on your lungs.
tabacco on the other hand does damage to your lungs but people forget to mention the nicotine which it contains as well. Nicotine is one of the strongest poisons on earth and the only reason you do not die, is because only a fraction will be consumed by your body.
Weed does no damage to your liver and also does not contain nicotine, BUT it does damage to your lungs, even more then regular tabacco (which most people believe not to). But the biggest problem with weed is the psychological damage it can do too, this too recent studies in the Netherlands (=where i come from and the question of legalizing is always hot. In NL weed is NOT legal what most people think, but it's allowed to use. Sounds strange? It is. But at least we are taking the subject seriously)

So to finish this threath i would like to make my statement on the most important topics:

They both do damage, which is worse depends on every specific person, do you have a strong liver, lungs, are you having psychological problems and so on.

I believe it should be legalized. Like alcohol, everybody should be allowed to make his own choices, choose what damage he does to his body, as long as no other people are inflicted. Besides what is the point of keeping it illegal? People who want to use it, will use it anyway and throwing somebody in jail for it is absurd. Government has better things to spend its resources on. By making it legal the government will be able to distribute it, give true information (no propaganda) and take care of a decent quality. This way young people who want to experiment with drugs will not autamatically come in contact with more serious drug like cocaïne (which sucks anyway) or XTC (which can be quite cool in my opinion).

Anyway to be short: Legalise it, simply because keeping it illegal has no point and only costs money to the entire community.

If anyone wants to contact me about this subject any further, feel free to do so:
[email protected]

PS: Sorry about my crappy English, has never been my best subject at school.

 

[Need-For-Weed]

Considering I've SEEN what it does to people, and it happens almost every time. Kids who I grew up with, did good in elementary school, got into the 'pot' scene in middle school, and are now stoned losers who's use of the drug pretty much screwed them up. They'll be living a crappy life in the future, dropped out of school because it "took too much time out of the day" or they couldn't smoke dope during the school day without it being hard to not get caught.

I don't need to do it myself to see that it's visibly bad.

Listen mate, the fact that you saw some smokers who in your eyes have become total losers (who are you to judge anyway) do not represent every single weed smoker in the world.
I used to smoke weed since i was 13 years old and on a daily basis since i was 14. At the moment i am finishing my second university study and i have a very bright future in the way that i can choose what kind of job i want and that i can earn a shitlote of money.

BUT: Smoking weed gave me some insights, which showed me that money (which you probably find a important thing) is not everything. Dumb materialistic people just try to make everyone believe it is important.
I learnt that having a relaxed live is way more important to me, i am a postman and i intent to stay it as well, no mather how many degrees i have.
Everybody is entitled to live his life his own way and they are not suddely loosers because you in your ignorant mind think they are. They may be poorer on their bankaccount, but are probably way richer in a spiritual way.

My advice to you: TRY IT ONCE, you will not die from trying it once and you will also not get addicted!!!

(by the way i do not smoke anymore, because i get bored from it now. It has given me all the insights it could, so i quite)

 

[CrazyHarij]

Listen mate, the fact that you saw some smokers who in your eyes have become total losers (who are you to judge anyway) do not represent every single weed smoker in the world.
I used to smoke weed since i was 13 years old and on a daily basis since i was 14. At the moment i am finishing my second university study and i have a very bright future in the way that i can choose what kind of job i want and that i can earn a shitlote of money.

BUT: Smoking weed gave me some insights, which showed me that money (which you probably find a important thing) is not everything. Dumb materialistic people just try to make everyone believe it is important.
I learnt that having a relaxed live is way more important to me, i am a postman and i intent to stay it as well, no mather how many degrees i have.
Everybody is entitled to live his life his own way and they are not suddely loosers because you in your ignorant mind think they are. They may be poorer on their bankaccount, but are probably way richer in a spiritual way.

My advice to you: TRY IT ONCE, you will not die from trying it once and you will also not get addicted!!!

(by the way i do not smoke anymore, because i get bored from it now. It has given me all the insights it could, so i quite)

What part of the drug gave you that success in school?

 

[Need-For-Weed]

What part of the drug gave you that success in school?

Drug was not responsible for the succus. I just told that illustrate that the use of drugs does not mean that you become "a dumb stoner".
You can use drugs AND be succesful, as long as you know what you are doing and do not take drugs to "solve your problems". Instead use drugs, enjoy and LEARN from it. But the most important thing is: Know what you use. Read some information before using drugs, that way you will use it with more care and also skip those kind of drugs, which you think are no good for you. People will probably react now like: all drugs are not for me!!!.
Forgetting that they probably use different kind of drugs each single day. Think for instance of: Caffeine, taurine, nicotine and so on....

 

[CrazyHarij]

Is everything that makes the brain produce dopamine a drug? If yes, then why not legalise Heorine, Cocaine, Crack, LSD and Extacy aswell and doom mankind to self destruction?
I'm not pro any kind of the general meaning of drug, I consider general nicotine cigarettes and alcohol being as dangerous as the illegal drugs, but greed and the huge money income from these will keep them legal.

There are better ways of escaping reality, if that is your goal.

 

[The Mullinator]

Just another thing I would like to point out, just because you see kids in school doing pot and they do bad doesn't really mean its the drug forcing them to do bad, at my school we have two different kinds of pot smokers, the hardcore ones and the people who have done it once or maybe only every once in awhile. The hardcore smokers usually do bad at school but I guarantee that it is not because they are addicted to marijuana and its affecting their brains, they choose not to come to class, they choose not to care about school. The people who do it only every once in a while or only once are not affected at all, and that is based on my own personal experience.

I have a few friends that are hard core pot smokers, I have a few friends that have only done it once or occasionally, but most of my friends have never done it before. I have all sides of this argument and I can tell you that it isn't as bad as what many people in here say, the hardcore pot smokers are not as affected by the drug as many people think, they act stupid but 99% of the time all the decisions they make are based on bad judgment that they would have whether they did pot or not.

Oh ya, all of this is based on my own personal experience as well.

 

[The Mullinator]

Is everything that makes the brain produce dopamine a drug? If yes, then why not legalise Heorine, Cocaine, Crack, LSD and Extacy aswell and doom mankind to self destruction?
I'm not pro any kind of the general meaning of drug, I consider general nicotine cigarettes and alcohol being as dangerous as the illegal drugs, but greed and the huge money income from these will keep them legal.

There are better ways of escaping reality, if that is your goal.

Im not sure but I wouldn't be surprised if caffeine produces dopamine as well, plus it isn't so much greed when it comes to tobacco and alcohal as it is that because we have had these drugs so freely in our civilization and so many people for so long have been doing them that its really quite impossible to force everyone to quit cold turkey. It was after all tried in the US to make everyone completely quit alcohal and we all know how that worked out.

Greed of the companies that make them do come into play, but its really more of a problem of so many people having the habit not really caring one way or another that keeps these drugs going.

 

[CrazyHarij]

Im not sure but I wouldn't be surprised if caffeine produces dopamine as well, plus it isn't so much greed when it comes to tobacco and alcohal as it is that because we have had these drugs so freely in our civilization and so many people for so long have been doing them that its really quite impossible to force everyone to quit cold turkey. It was after all tried in the US to make everyone completely quit alcohal and we all know how that worked out.

Greed of the companies that make them do come into play, but its really more of a problem of so many people having the habit not really caring one way or another that keeps these drugs going.

Yes, dumb traditions, laziness and fear of letting go of something pleasurable is playing a major part in this aswell.

 

[The Mullinator]

Yes, dumb traditions, laziness and fear of letting go of something pleasurable is playing a major part in this aswell.

Seeing that made me think, why do humans enjoy these things? We know that they hurt us, we know that its nothing but simple pleasure, so why do we do them? Well its probably the same reason we ride roller coasters, it serves no purpose, it feels dangerous, its only a simple pleasure. We play video games, they serve no purpose, medicaly they could have some negative effects on us, and socially they can have negative effects on us. Yet we still do these things, we are human beings, we are hypocritical, we are illogical, we are always biased, and as human beings we aren't very good at making connections between things in our lives.

Its just something to think about, why do people enjoy drinking with friends and getting drunk? Why do people enjoy smoking marijuana and getting high? Why do people ride roller coasters to feel excitement? Why do we enjoy playing video games? The answer for all of them is the same, for the simple pleasure of it. Most of us don't care about the potential dangers of these things and the reason is almost always the same in human beings, pleasure trumps everything else. After all, most people can't even see a reason for living if they don't have any pleasure in their lives.

 

[Need-For-Weed]

Yes, dumb traditions, laziness and fear of letting go of something pleasurable is playing a major part in this aswell.

Hey mate,
I know what you are saying. I see you want best for civilisation, but people should be allowed to make their own choices on this matter, since it does primarely affect their own lifes. That it is bad for them is their problem. The government should not interfere. Otherwise the government might just as well make people stop eating fries and hamburgers, because they are not healthy, people will get heart deceases etc. Or imagine the government would start making everyone run 10 miles a day because that is healthier.
I believe your health is your own responsibility, therefore the government should not interfere.

 

[CrazyHarij]

Seeing that made me think, why do humans enjoy these things? We know that they hurt us, we know that its nothing but simple pleasure, so why do we do them? Well its probably the same reason we ride roller coasters, it serves no purpose, it feels dangerous, its only a simple pleasure. We play video games, they serve no purpose, medicaly they could have some negative effects on us, and socially they can have negative effects on us. Yet we still do these things, we are human beings, we are hypocritical, we are illogical, we are always biased, and as human beings we aren't very good at making connections between things in our lives.

Its just something to think about, why do people enjoy drinking with friends and getting drunk? Why do people enjoy smoking marijuana and getting high? Why do people ride roller coasters to feel excitement? Why do we enjoy playing video games? The answer for all of them is the same, for the simple pleasure of it. Most of us don't care about the potential dangers of these things and the reason is almost always the same in human beings, pleasure trumps everything else. After all, most people can't even see a reason for living if they don't have any pleasure in their lives.

A short moment of insight is better than a lifetime of scientific studies.

We are simple beings in general, we do dumb things if the brain rewards us for it. When you play a game and defeat the enemy, your brain rewards you with dopamine, you get a short sense of well-being. You want to experience that as much as possible.
Drugs like heroine gives you a hangover with terrible headaches and such, and you are forced to consume more to get that sense of well-being again which leads you into a "bad circle".

 

[Onions]

Alcohol is physically addictive, cannabis is not. If you get addicted to pot you have deeper problems, whether you accept it or not. I'm all for both drugs, great fun. The problems begin to appear when the person using them is ****ed up in some way, leading to road accidents, fights, death. Oh and never mix the two, stomach just doesnt like it

 

[CptStern]

the majority of you here will get extremely drunk at one time or another in your lives. You'll have a bad hangover, you'll probably vomit repeatedly and regret the previous night's drinking binge, vowing never again to drink. But you'll get better and the following weekend you'll do the same thing. But this is all acceptable behaviour. Society almost encourages it: "the happy drunk", "tailgate parties", "happy hour". All perfectly acceptable. Maybe during one of these binges you'll have a lapse in judgement, drive a car, not use a condom, do something you'll regret. Marijuana has none of these effects. About the worst sensation you will experience is hunger, sleepyness or boredom. Long term effects of chronic use are not as severe as chronic use of alcohol. I used to work as a bartender, and two of my "regulars" died of complications following years of alcohol abuse, I've never seen anyone die from chronic pot use.

 

[Pogrom]

the majority of you here will get extremely drunk at one time or another in your lives. You'll have a bad hangover, you'll probably vomit repeatedly and regret the previous night's drinking binge, vowing never again to drink. But you'll get better and the following weekend you'll do the same thing. But this is all acceptable behaviour. Society almost encourages it: "the happy drunk", "tailgate parties", "happy hour". All perfectly acceptable. Maybe during one of these binges you'll have a lapse in judgement, drive a car, not use a condom, do something you'll regret. Marijuana has none of these effects. About the worst sensation you will experience is hunger, sleepyness or boredom. Long term effects of chronic use are not as severe as chronic use of alcohol. I used to work as a bartender, and two of my "regulars" died of complications following years of alcohol abuse, I've never seen anyone die from chronic pot use.

All of the lapses in judgement you listed could occur using marijuana as well. Both are mind-altering drugs.

Marijuana can also have more effects than those you listed. It depends upon the unique brain chemistry of the person.

 

[CptStern]

true, it could happen, but it's not the same thing. If I drink 9 beers I'll have a hard time standing. I could smoke 20 joints (I defy anyone to smoke more than 2 in one shot) and it wouldnt have the same effect on me as drinking 9 beers. I could still talk to people (albeit slowly) I could still do pretty much everything I could do while sober (although I wouldnt drive because there is some delay in reaction time)

 

[Mr. Redundant]

Im no weed advocate
however I would rather Weed be legalized over alcahol anyday.

then again I grew up in an alcaholic home.. with a ton of abuse, sleepless nights etc.
so thats why I probably despise alcahol and dont touch the stuff.... cant even stand being near someone who is drunk... makes me smash things.

 

[Warbie]

Im no weed advocate
however I would rather Weed be legalized over alcahol anyday.

then again I grew up in an alcaholic home.. with a ton of abuse, sleepless nights etc.
so thats why I probably despise alcahol and dont touch the stuff.... cant even stand being near someone who is drunk... makes me smash things.

Try growing up in a home of weed smokers. Living with their apathy and carelessness. It's no picnic.

What people don't see is that weed makes you mean (sure, this isn't the case with occasional smokers), i've seen it in nearly everyone I know (including myself, having smoked heavily for around 15 years)

It's understandable when you say this, 'cant even stand being near someone who is drunk... makes me smash things' Mr Redundant. I've the same reaction to weed (the smell makes me feel phsically ill now) The annoying thing is there's no escape :/ my girlfriend smokes every day, as do all my friends and their families.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Listen mate, the fact that you saw some smokers who in your eyes have become total losers (who are you to judge anyway) do not represent every single weed smoker in the world.

It represents almost every single pot smoker I have come in contact with in real life anyway. They are always short on food due to being short on money, and that's their fault for not working, it's not as if they went through a hard time during layoffs or anything.

I used to smoke weed since i was 13 years old and on a daily basis since i was 14. At the moment i am finishing my second university study and i have a very bright future in the way that i can choose what kind of job i want and that i can earn a shitlote of money.

BUT: Smoking weed gave me some insights, which showed me that money (which you probably find a important thing) is not everything. Dumb materialistic people just try to make everyone believe it is important.
I learnt that having a relaxed live is way more important to me, i am a postman and i intent to stay it as well, no mather how many degrees i have.
Everybody is entitled to live his life his own way and they are not suddely loosers because you in your ignorant mind think they are. They may be poorer on their bankaccount, but are probably way richer in a spiritual way.

My advice to you: TRY IT ONCE, you will not die from trying it once and you will also not get addicted!!!

(by the way i do not smoke anymore, because i get bored from it now. It has given me all the insights it could, so i quite)

It probably didn't affect you as badly as it did them. I am not a materialistic person, but I think anybody who ends up needing to borrow money for basic necessities and bills because they don't want to get a job is a loser, and most people would agree with that so it's not just me. The people I talk about are probably, in fact, MORE materialistic than me. When they get some money they don't save it or use it for bills, etc. They'll spend it on the new big stereo and use the elftover money to buy more pot plants and seeds ;/

 

[The Terminator]

All of the lapses in judgement you listed could occur using marijuana as well. Both are mind-altering drugs.

Marijuana can also have more effects than those you listed. It depends upon the unique brain chemistry of the person.

Please enlighten us.

 

[CptStern]

It represents almost every single pot smoker I have come in contact with in real life anyway. They are always short on food due to being short on money, and that's their fault for not working, it's not as if they went through a hard time during layoffs or anything.

please....I know a handful of lawyers that snort more coke in a day than a pothead smokes in a month and these are professionals with high profile careers. It's such a stereotype that all potheads are lazy hippies. The Beatles were potheads and it doesnt seem like it affected their career.

 

[x84D80Yx]

As far as legalizing it...
Should they legalize jumping off a cliff or a mountain?

err. i might be wrong on this. but how would they take your dead body to jail if it's illegal

but i think i have seen it before on discovery channel or somthin, jumping into giant caves or cliffs with parachutes, dunno if it was legal or not.

 

[Warbie]

please....I know a handful of lawyers that snort more coke in a day than a pothead smokes in a month and these are professionals with high profile careers. It's such a stereotype that all potheads are lazy hippies. The Beatles were potheads and it doesnt seem like it affected their career.

lol - they must be great lawyers :/

And they snort more coke in a day than a pothead smokes in a month? Say the average pot users smokes 1/2 an ounce a week, which is about 2 ounces a month. Wow - these layers can snort 60 grams of coke in a day. That puts Ozzy to shame

(if what you say is anywhere near the thruth, these guys won't be lawyers for very long longer)

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

please....I know a handful of lawyers that snort more coke in a day than a pothead smokes in a month and these are professionals with high profile careers. It's such a stereotype that all potheads are lazy hippies. The Beatles were potheads and it doesnt seem like it affected their career.

If you know those lawyers you should report them, that's a danger to the public as they're representing the accused, they'll have their licenses revoked.

And you can fly down to Kingman if you'd like. The potheads I know aren't hippies.. they wear normal clothes and don't really know anything about current events. They ARE tanked out losers however, anyone who can't afford food because they're too lazy to get a job (Some people can't because of bad situations, but with these people.. it's because they won't get one) is a serious loser.

 

[CptStern]

If you know those lawyers you should report them, that's a danger to the public as they're representing the accused, they'll have their licenses revoked.

And you can fly down to Kingman if you'd like. The potheads I know aren't hippies.. they wear normal clothes and don't really know anything about current events. They ARE tanked out losers however, anyone who can't afford food because they're too lazy to get a job (Some people can't because of bad situations, but with these people.. it's because they won't get one) is a serious loser.

If I had to turn in every lawyer that does it there'd be no lawyers left or stock brokers, musicians, people in public office ect. Weed is for the poor, the rich do coke.

 

[Warbie]

If I had to turn in ever lawyer that does it there'd be no lawyers left or stock brokers, musicians, people in public office ect. Weed is for the poor, the rich do coke.

oh come on - that's just bollox.

 

[CptStern]

really? my sister in law is a lawyer

 

[Warbie]

oh - u must be correct then

 

[CptStern]

well I do admit i'm exagerrating just a bit...maybe not all of them. But my sister in law says that after every win the partners in the firm threw parties where it was freely available. People with high paying high stress work often use coke on a daily basis. I've been to parties where it is abundant as the $75 a bottle wine they like to serve.

 

[Foxtrot]

Hmm, I should have read a bit more....

 

[CptStern]

didnt i say i wouldnt drive when high because it would slow my reaction time...same thing. Still it's not the same as drinking

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

If I had to turn in every lawyer that does it there'd be no lawyers left or stock brokers, musicians, people in public office ect. Weed is for the poor, the rich do coke.

Yes, there would be lawyers left. The bad ones would just be gone. If it's true that you do know lawyers who do cocaine, you have an obligation to report them.

 

[CptStern]

Yes, there would be lawyers left. The bad ones would just be gone. If it's true that you do know lawyers who do cocaine, you have an obligation to report them.

oh come on...should I report that cop I saw smoking a joint off duty? or how about that priest I saw jaywalking the other day. If they want to use it who am I to say they cant?

 

[Foxtrot]

You aren't the one who decides they can't, the law is.

 

[CptStern]

so answer my question...if I see someone jaywalking I should report them? how about the off-duty police officer?

 

[Foxtrot]

I don't know what the penalty is for jaywalking but no you should not report them, there would be no way to prove that it happened and the offense and penalty are both so small no one would bother to start an investigation. The officer smoking pot you should report, there are many things wrong with that including a coruption in the police force.

 

[CptStern]

a law is a law, why should I disregard one and not the other? he's smoking off duty ...I dont like cops as much as the next guy but I wouldnt turn him unless I actually saw him smoking on duty

 

[Foxtrot]

You should disregard it because there is no way to prove he did it, you could have told the person he was breaking the law because he may not have known but there is no way you could turn him in for doing...I suppose you could and a police officer might(highly doubt it though) tell the person not to do it again.