my teacher told me a conspiracy theory about 9/11

seinfeldrules said:
So you're comparing Bush to Hitler, why dont you just come out and say it?
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..... you're the only one who said that.



He had quotes from loadsa people in there.... Plato.... George Washington....




Personally I see very few similarities between them. Maybe a few very slight ones... lol.


But what do you think! :p
 
I was noticing all the quotes from Goerring mixed along side his questionable intro.
 
seinfeldrules said:
So you're comparing Bush to Hitler, why dont you just come out and say it?
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I bolded the ones that seemed most appropriate to the discussion of conspiracy theories. My hatred of the inner workings of our government is not contained in a single group, as yours seems to be (liberal bad, conservative good). I think more along the lines of what Noam Chomsky talks about. Basically, the whole system is ****ed. Both "sides" are really run by people from the same ultra-upper-class that can actually afford to run for higher positions. For example, Bush and Kerry (who are made out to be polar opposites) were both born to wealthy families with a lot of influence, both went to the same elitist school, both joined the same secret society, both are funded by similar concentrations of private power, etc. The vast majority of the successful politicians in our system are the same. In a Gallup poll less than 10% said that they chose who to vote for based on the issues... and when asked about them a good chunk of that 10% (or less) couldn't answer correctly. Whether you like it or not, we don't have the best democracy. We don't have the best media system. In other democratic countries (like Brazil) a person that is unlucky enough to be born into a poor family and spent most of his life as a steel worker can still get elected to the highest office because their election is based on the issues. The US government and the systems through which we get information regarding it need major reform but it will/can not happen over night. You have to keep voting for the lesser of the two evils to keep them from getting out of control.

seinfeldrules said:
I was noticing all the quotes from Goerring mixed along side his questionable intro.
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You mean the one quote of Hermann Goering? There were several from Joseph Goebbels because he was the head of Nazi propaganda... and (as you should know by now) I hate the media.
 
You mean the one quote of Hermann Goering? There were several from Joseph Goebbels because he was the head of Nazi propaganda... and (as you should know by now) I hate the media.
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Typo on my part. It seems you were attacking the current administration instead of the media. If you were implying a corrolation between Bush and Hitler I find it quite insulting, if not, my apologies.
 
The quote from him was very relevant, even moreso because he was a leading figure in a regime that abused its trust amongst its people.
 
... ? ^ Tommorrow, a forest fire will rain down Teddy Bears and Arafats, because I, am a Protestant!
 
seinfeldrules said:
Typo on my part. It seems you were attacking the current administration instead of the media. If you were implying a corrolation between Bush and Hitler I find it quite insulting, if not, my apologies.
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Without a media system that is willing to go along with it (well, mostly, because there will always be some dissenting voices no matter how hard you try to push them down) there could be no propaganda. The media should be there to keep the government in check... not to help it get out of control. The blame is shared equally by the people that want to control the population and the people in the media that let them. I am not attacking the current administration. I am attacking decades of administrations. This stuff doesn't happen in the span of four or eight years.
 
shadow6899 said:
what you said contradicts all those peoples arguements then about that the gov't gets thousands of threats and that they can only act on some. well... then obviously something is wrong w/ that arguement... people keep saying that the gov't didn't do anything to stop it b/c of that... well if they tried the plane drills, then obviously they knew... and obviously they knew it was happening, or else they wouldn't alarm thousands of people that a plane could crash into the building that they frequently visit or work at everyday.
.
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They recieved many direct threats from OBL prior to 9/11. The reason I rush to fill the factual void of your argument with this point is that the government hid this fact. They did not want to seem incapable of acting on threats, as clearly, drills or no drills, many thousands of people died. They failed in their job to protect their country from threats.

They recieve many threats from anonomous people, and just as many vague, un directed threats. The reason they could act on this one was
a) They were told it would be done with a plane
b) OBL is a known terrorist, and had good reason to believe he would carry out the threat
c) They had an idea of where the plane might be directed, although nothing too specific.

They can act on such intelligence to an extent. Hence the drills, hence the fact they covered up their prior knowledge when they failed to prevent it.

The government lies on pretty much a regular basis, far more than moore. Or, should I say, like moore, they distort fact.
Look at what the media tell you about things. In Britain at the moment we are being bombarded with horror stories about immigrants. "They are taking over the country" "They are taking all our benefits" "They are driving around unlicensed and seem to be killing lots of people" "They are taking all our jobs". It's a load of crap, we need these immigrants in our society. A third of our Nation Health Service is made up of foreigners. The law states that they cannot get a job in the first six months of arriving, hence the required benefits. And of course some are t**ts, some might even kill people, but it is hardly fair to only report these incidents in the paper, especially at a higher ratio to the rest of the killings in the country.

That is just a small example, international-wise, but demonstrates how easily the government with help from the media can change people's beliefs about the world. Many people will recite the crap printed about immigrants, and some act upon it.

Bush, Saddam and 9/11 and Saddam and WMDs are a more significant example. Get rid of the crap you find shot at you by the news and search for facts yourself. Soon a more sinister picture immerges, although rarely fully - since this could be a disaster for the government, although many people would be too stubborn to believe anything against their government (though very few people on this forum I'm glad to say). When such ideas become mainstream, the government simply denies it, or laughs it off saying it was 'bad intelligence' or 'just one bad guy in an otherwise great system'. Someone is fired at the world feels better.

"Never underestimate the power of denial"
Weird guy off American Beauty

We can deny things too. Like the question of - why would our government fit rockets to 747s before crashing them into the WTC? Why would our government use two planes to attack the WTC, then use a rocket for the pentegon?

Why would we invade Iraq over WMDs they knew he didn't have?
Why would we leave Afghanistan underdefended to allow Al-Quaeda to regroup?

"Remember, half the fun of life is the not knowing. Believe what you like, and spend your days affirming that belief. You will die happy."
 
If you conspiracy theory freaks want more fun, the date of birth of the big bad guy from "Enemy of the State" was 9/11/40.

Heh heh. The movie is about conspiracy.
 
seinfeldrules said:
I was noticing all the quotes from Goerring mixed along side his questionable intro.
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How is an accurate intro questionable? Another thing go take a gander at that new anti freedom intel. bill that just went through you will see how freedom based the relgious patriot Dubya is (let alone the patriot act bush pushed through). And yes there are many very relevent quotes from nazi germany that compare to today, to say there arent is to be ignorant of reality. But there will be another attack and it will be exploited (if not planed) for more power. But just give it a year and we wil have the Universal Patriotic Service back in place.. If you put the word partiot in somthing you cant dissent against it without being called unpatriotic or un-American.
:angry:
=We need another great leader of men. To bad the great leaders are slain and the bad live on and linger.=
 
alexius said:
WARNING

IF YOU ARE DESTRESSED ABOUT TALKING ABOUT 9/11 DO NOT READ

IF YOU DO NOT LIKE BAD SPELLING DONT READ



hello im from england and i dont really no much about politics but i was told this shocking conspiracy theory by my teacher.

he said that 9/11 was conducted by someone in the U.S.A he said that they needed to got to irac to get oil because it was running out every wer else, but to invade irac they needed a reason so they made it look like they fluw the plain into the Twin towers. and they needed a big shocking event otherwise no one would go along with it.now i was shocked at this theory .said it was all about getting power and money through oil. He also said they had to assasination of presedent kenady because he wanted to pull the army out of vietnam because to many ppl were getting killed to get the oil.

so that what i was told and i was quite shocked and it made me feel small ;(
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This is false on so many levels.. if we were going to go to war with Iraq for any reason at all, we wouldnt need to attack ourselves to do it.. we wouldve skipped afghanistan and just gone to Iraq and set up shop. this kills me...

I think your teacher needs teh liscense suspended for teaching false information. Not only is it false but there is no proof.. ever. And its just plain stupidity to think that 9/11 was to get oil... the cost of the attacks and war against terrorism is far greater than any supply of oil could ever pay off.. that is not strategic at all. Your teacher has no strategic inclination to even believe that kind of crap, let alone teach it..

There's only one conclusion i can come to about this.. hes just Anti-American and thats all there is to it.
 
SirWence said:
How is an accurate intro questionable? Another thing go take a gander at that new anti freedom intel. bill that just went through you will see how freedom based the relgious patriot Dubya is (let alone the patriot act bush pushed through). And yes there are many very relevent quotes from nazi germany that compare to today, to say there arent is to be ignorant of reality. But there will be another attack and it will be exploited (if not planed) for more power. But just give it a year and we wil have the Universal Patriotic Service back in place.. If you put the word partiot in somthing you cant dissent against it without being called unpatriotic or un-American.
:angry:
=We need another great leader of men. To bad the great leaders are slain and the bad live on and linger.=
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Yes, you're right, America is just the rising Third (wait thats used) Fourth Reich. I got a question for ya...
 
As for the missile crashing into the Pentagon, you still have not accounted for the people on the plane that 'presumably' crashed. If it was in fact a missile, then there would be no passengers. However, there were passengers on the plane, and they did dissappear. Now assuming they aren't on a crashed plane, where are they?

Here's pictures and evidence:
http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm

Note, the outlet whole is indeed round because the front of the plane IS round. Only the cockpit pieces made it through. Also, due to the short distance between takeoff and crash, the planes wings would contain trememdous amounts of fuel. Also, you seem unaware that a planes wings are not strong at all. Upon impact the fuel would have ignited and destroyed them instantly, and they would NOT enter the building. You can see the burn marks quite clearly in this photo:
http://members.shaw.ca/freedomsix/pics/marker.jpg

From this site:
http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/pentagon.htm

Note that a missile does not cause a wide burn pattern at its entrance point. Like a bullet, it causes a small entry hole then detonates outward. The only way the wide burn marks could be explained is that the missile exploded outside the building, in which case there would have been no exit hole on the other side. The (pro conspiracy) site does make some good points, but fails to consider the fuel-laden wings, and goes on to say that the dust-covered debris wheel isn't the same color as a normal, working wheel. Duh.

Here's a bit more evidence:
http://www.big-boys.com/articles/concreteplane.html

It shows a fighter plane hitting a concrete wall at 500 mph. There is almost no damage to the wall, and the plane is vaporized. The wings don't penetrate at all.

While there is a possibility of a missile impact, there is still overwhelming evidence that it was a plane, namely the missing passengers, exit hole, and wide burn marks.
 
shadow6899 said:
i cant tell if your speaking against me burner or agreeing... and conspiracy, why dont ou read the rest of the thread first. it's funny how people keep talking about the cost of the war, yet forget how much bush and cheneys buisnesses are profiting, and how little is being spent on the troops and their supplies. why dont u re read my post that says that troops are being under supplied, and not just a little, enough to have them ask rumsfeld himself when he visited the troops at fort drum this tahnksgiving.
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Bush and Cheney have no such business thats supposedly raking in all this cash.. thats just stupid.

Do you have any idea how much we spend on defense?

334 Billion Dollars a year (figures per 2003).. thats the largest military budget in the world!

This is how defense spending works:
The government collects taxes, of course. However much they collect is distributed according to budget spending.. everything from Education to Governmental programs to Infrastructure to Defense.. taxes pay for all of it. When the Military requests a new weapon or in this case, more armor, money is spent by the government in order to pay contractors to develop whatever the necessity may be. Development takes time. The Pentagon has no control over how long it takes for new military developments to be completed. You must consider design, engineering, testing and production.. this doesnt happen overnite.

I know for a fact that getting armor to the guys on the ground is not a matter of 'if' but definately 'when'. I read not to long ago that we are going to buy armor plates from Israel which are outfitted on tanks and other armored vehicles. These armor plates are capable of detonating IEDs before they can do any sort of damage, which are Ideal for what were facing in Iraq. This is not to say were not handing out deals to our own contractors to solve this problem.

Just because we dont have the armor RIGHT NOW does not mean were working on getting it out there..
 
Double post, but it's a separate topic. While it may not be illegal, it is wrong for a teacher to state his or her specific views as fact during a course. They would normally be fired in the US. This has become a big thing at my college (which is highly liberal), and several investigations have been held concerning expressing one-sided political views in class. Now if the teacher expressed it as 'one theory', it would have been fine, but if he said, 'this is what happened', then it's not.
 
You fail to grasp simple concepts of inertia. A much larger projectile can have more force than a small, tougher projectile. Also, the plane was travelling slower, and thus would have exert less force per area, keeping it from disintegrating, however, the force integrated over area would be plenty to knock the wall out of the way. Also, the piece that made it all the way through may not have been very big at all. Think bullet exit wound. Also, a missile would not have left scorch marks on the outside unless it exploded outside or right inside the building. An explosion is going to create much smaller fragments than an impact, and there is very little chance that a piece would make it completely through the building in a straight line.

Also, the fuel filled wings would have exploded on impact, but the fuselage would not have. Fighters have less wing area and therefore contain fuel throughout the fuselage as well, hence the complete plane explodes at once. Ditto a missile, which is fronted by high-explosive (and thus all vaporizes at once).
 
and if it were a missle, half the dman builidng would be gone. those thinkgs make big booms
 
DSDchemE said:
As for the missile crashing into the Pentagon, you still have not accounted for the people on the plane that 'presumably' crashed. If it was in fact a missile, then there would be no passengers. However, there were passengers on the plane, and they did dissappear. Now assuming they aren't on a crashed plane, where are they?

Here's pictures and evidence:
http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm

Note, the outlet whole is indeed round because the front of the plane IS round. Only the cockpit pieces made it through. Also, due to the short distance between takeoff and crash, the planes wings would contain trememdous amounts of fuel. Also, you seem unaware that a planes wings are not strong at all. Upon impact the fuel would have ignited and destroyed them instantly, and they would NOT enter the building. You can see the burn marks quite clearly in this photo:
http://members.shaw.ca/freedomsix/pics/marker.jpg

From this site:
http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/pentagon.htm

Note that a missile does not cause a wide burn pattern at its entrance point. Like a bullet, it causes a small entry hole then detonates outward. The only way the wide burn marks could be explained is that the missile exploded outside the building, in which case there would have been no exit hole on the other side. The (pro conspiracy) site does make some good points, but fails to consider the fuel-laden wings, and goes on to say that the dust-covered debris wheel isn't the same color as a normal, working wheel. Duh.

Here's a bit more evidence:
http://www.big-boys.com/articles/concreteplane.html

It shows a fighter plane hitting a concrete wall at 500 mph. There is almost no damage to the wall, and the plane is vaporized. The wings don't penetrate at all.

While there is a possibility of a missile impact, there is still overwhelming evidence that it was a plane, namely the missing passengers, exit hole, and wide burn marks.
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That plane left the radar now i know of military planes that can go dark not jumbo jets. you can also account of the people saying the plane was destroyed or crashed at a another location. And also the pentagon isnt exactly a brick house.. its a bit strong with a bit of renforced con.. And as it went over I 395? there were no cases of a blast wave from a massive jet supposedly flying more or less 2-10 ft above them heh.

Oh and bullsquid get educated on missles before you make a retarded comment like that.
 
seinfeldrules said:
You can fly below radars you know, thats probably why it went off.
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Yeah, I mean... come on. It was flying less than the height of the Pentagon for a while. Unless they wanted to track the movement of cars, bridges, trees, and buildings they wouldn't have pointed the RADAR systems that low. Even if they did point the RADAR at the ground it still stops when it hits an object... and there are plenty of objects that could have gotten in the way.
 
OCybrManO said:
Yeah, I mean... come on. It was flying less than the height of the Pentagon for a while. Unless they wanted to track the movement of cars, bridges, trees, and buildings they wouldn't have pointed the RADAR systems that low. Even if they did point the RADAR at the ground it still stops when it hits an object... and there are plenty of objects that could have gotten in the way.
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Sarcasm? Or do we agree on something :eek:
 
OCybrManO said:
Yeah, I mean... come on. It was flying less than the height of the Pentagon for a while. Unless they wanted to track the movement of cars, bridges, trees, and buildings they wouldn't have pointed the RADAR systems that low. Even if they did point the RADAR at the ground it still stops when it hits an object... and there are plenty of objects that could have gotten in the way.
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Does your brain fail to comprehend the size of the aircraft in question its a bit larger then a prop plane i dont know of any 767's and 757's that can fly below NORAD's watchful radar. you cant track a jumbo jet aircraft that low because it doesnt exsist anymore. unless you can fly tree level with it and manage not the crash seeing as you may you know have a few objects in the way like i dunno other buildings trees houses etc. Which i dont think horribly trained muslim fanatics could do. let alone even the military. And jsut to let you know we are talking flying under the radar for 45 minutes not "for a while".
 
Yes, I know how large the plane is... do you? The only video evidence available suggests that the plane was flying that low and was in relatively level flight at least for a few seconds before the impact. Whoever or whatever was flying it was obviously not horribly trained if they were that accurate. Also, if you know you are going to die you are more willing to do something that is very dangerous (like flying much lower than most other people would dare). I'm not saying it was. I'm saying it's possible... however improbable it may seem.

I also read somewhere that the one that they were initially tracking that went below the radar was the wrong flight... or even a helicopter. I'm not sure if it's true.
 
yes i do know the size my neighbor is a pilot for AA he flys 737 out of LI. even he says its quite impossible for a plane of that size to fly below radar for 45 minutes. These planes dont turn on a dime. You can buy the story if you want. But to say a 757 can fly under radar for 45 minutes.. and people interviewed for the school were they 'learned to fly' all said they were terrible pilots. CommenSense dictates that cover story to be full of shit.
 
I'm not trying to say I trust either the "cover story" or the conspiracy theory. Both are equally sketchy.
 
most people "in the business" dont believe that cover story heh 45 minutes under radar 757 .. rightttt :p but yes check out that new anti freedom intel bill that gives HLS the right to enforce a NATIONAL ID. (granted is almost 3000 pages long)
 
Some of them openly admit that they didn't bother reading it... much less the whole thing.
 
C-O-N-Spiracy said:
This is false on so many levels.. if we were going to go to war with Iraq for any reason at all, we wouldnt need to attack ourselves to do it.. we wouldve skipped afghanistan and just gone to Iraq and set up shop. this kills me...

I think your teacher needs teh liscense suspended for teaching false information. Not only is it false but there is no proof.. ever. And its just plain stupidity to think that 9/11 was to get oil... the cost of the attacks and war against terrorism is far greater than any supply of oil could ever pay off.. that is not strategic at all. Your teacher has no strategic inclination to even believe that kind of crap, let alone teach it..

There's only one conclusion i can come to about this.. hes just Anti-American and thats all there is to it.
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IMO, and I hope the majorities, 9/11 was done by the people who said they did it. OBL crew. They took responsibility and gave reason for it. Hence we invaded Afghanistan straight after.

Tho to say we rushed it, would be an understatment. Notice the speed we moved from Afghanistan to Iraq, leaving the area poorly defended. Bush seemed keen on invading Iraq from the start, pressing his people to attempt to find a link with 9/11 and Saddam. Hence if you look at data collected in 2003 about Saddam, a good number of people thought he had direct involvment with 9/11, despite it being a lie passed out by the media.
Bush knew Saddam didn't have WMDs, and it seems clear that he really DIDN'T have any. You can say he hid them, but I find it unlikely that just before his country is attacked he'd hide his best weapons away, making them useless.

I'm not stupid enough to think the whole war is about Oil, although I can't find many other reasons which fit in with fact. Unless of course you believe your president is so incapable he can start a war with a country based on false information. Ooopsy, hey? And with the oil reserves shooting down they will quite easily double the money spent on this war if they get to control Iraqs supplies.
 
Originally Posted by C-O-N-Spiracy
This is false on so many levels.. if we were going to go to war with Iraq for any reason at all, we wouldnt need to attack ourselves to do it.. we wouldve skipped afghanistan and just gone to Iraq and set up shop. this kills me...

I think your teacher needs teh liscense suspended for teaching false information. Not only is it false but there is no proof.. ever. And its just plain stupidity to think that 9/11 was to get oil... the cost of the attacks and war against terrorism is far greater than any supply of oil could ever pay off.. that is not strategic at all. Your teacher has no strategic inclination to even believe that kind of crap, let alone teach it..

There's only one conclusion i can come to about this.. hes just Anti-American and thats all there is to it.
------------------------------------------------------------

You seem to miss the point its not the country who profits its the companys the ones who are rebuilding you know the non bid contracts but your to slow to understand that i guess. And by the way your Anti-American anyone who says garbage like "I think your teacher needs teh liscense suspended for teaching false information. Not only is it false but there is no proof.." ill be frank there is no Proof for either said of this issue just some facts but nothing that is truly a 'smokeing gun' but you oviously cant tolerate anyone who doesnt fallow the cover story. All i can get out of 9/11 is Loss of endless amounts of freedom because of the weak willed keep me safe people. Freedoms we will never get back. Once the Gov. takes something you dont get it back. Ben Franklin was right. "There's only one conclusion i can come to about this.. hes just Anti-American and thats all there is to it." i agree only im aiming it at you. :flame:
 
^^ Well said.

I love it when people say they support things for freedom, when infact its the reverse (see post above) - the only reason they see it as freedom is because the papers say it is.

Yeah, introduce compulsory ID cards, keep us free and safe and happy. Hey the news said that Saddam is linked to 9/11, he is trying to end our freedom, let's sign up and attack him to preserve this great sense of freedom the government so kindly tells me I have. :rolleyes:
 
Or pass a patriot act that takes away your 4th amendment rights.. Sigh name it patriot and anyone who stands up against it is un-American. so when bush brings the draft back it will be called somthing like Universal Patriotic Defence Service so you cant stand against somthing like that cause its 'Patriotic Service' blah its all BS. After the next terrorist attack dont act on emotions use Logic, use your brain and dont let it be blinded by nationalism because that gives the gov. a blank check to do as they please and weve seen our freedoms being striped because of blind nationalism and people wanting to be 'safe'. You may disagree with me but the only ones keeping people like conspiracy semi free or whats even left of it in this once mighty free and great nation. are those who challege the 'cover story' those who dissent and those who demand better to bad they are out numbered by the ignorant or cowardly. unless people wake up your freedoms will be gone for good.
 
You're forgetting that everything Bush does is OK becuz he sed he believes God speaks thru him. Praise the Lord, who now appears to want to strip rights of his followers, torture innocent Iraqis, start wars with one premise and come out with another, marginalise homosexuals, draw out more terrorists through greedy profiteering strategies etc etc.

Welcome to the Holy Land of Freedom. Britian will be going down the same route soon, though Blair can expect a lot of protest about it.
 
BTW not all missles explode on impact there are many different types.
 
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