New poll reveals 52% americans favour military strikes on Iran

Yeah, I doubt I'm the only one here who actually has heard of weather modification projects too, but they've historically been fairly crude affairs such as cloud seeding and attempts to mitigate the impact of hurricanes.
 
OTCEscape said:
If they can modify the weather to be sunny, and a nice 70 degrees all year round with a nice breeze. I say, all for it!
Click to expand...

But that doesn't beneficial anything to Pentagon. What they need is a weapon to kill, so you see tornado and hurricane. Katrina and Rita.

The cyclone which killed 100,000 people, with great opportunity, was created by Pentagon. US has ability and motive to commit the crime. They have done it on its own citizens, in Katrina and in false flag attack 911 bombing, so what for Burma.

Quote, "Navy Research Paper: 'Disrupt Economies' with Man-Made 'Floods,' 'Droughts' |
February 11, 2008
By Noah Shachtman

Hurricane_andrew A recently-unearthed U.S. Navy research project calls for creating mad-made floods and droughts to "disrupt [the] economy" of an enemy state.

"Weather modification was used successfully in Viet Nam to (among other things) hinder and impede the movement of personnel and material from North Viet Nam to South Viet Nam," notes a Naval Air Warfare Weapons Division - China Lake research proposal, released last month through the Freedom of Information Act. But "since that time military research on Weather Modification has dwindled in the United States."

The proposal suggests a study of the latest weather manipulation techniques, to "give the U.S. military a viable, state-of-the-art weather modification capability again." With that in hand, American forces would be able...

To impede or deny the movement of personnel and material because of rains-floods, snow-blizzards, etc.

(2) To disrupt economy due to the effect of floods, droughts, etc.

The proposal is undated. But it's pretty clearly from the Cold War. Not only is "the Soviet-Union (Russia)" mentioned. The money is also relatively small, by today's standards -- less than a half-million dollars, over two years.

A military in-house newspaper calls "weather modification" an "area of China Lake preeminence. Between 1949 and 1978, China Lake developed concepts, techniques, and hardware that were successfully used in hurricane abatement, fog control, and drought relief. Military application of this technology was demonstrated in 1966 when Project Popeye was conducted to enhance rainfall to help interdict traffic on the Ho Chi Minh Trail." (Here's a picture of China Lake's "Cold Cloud Modification System."

In 1980, the United States ratified a treaty banning military weather manipulation. But every once in a while, someone in the armed forces floats the idea of doing it again. "Our vision is that by 2025 the military could influence the weather on a mesoscale [theater-wide] or microscale [immediate local area] to achieve operational capabilities," a 1996 Air Force-commissioned study reads.

Today, Chinese officials are trying to figure out ways to keep it from raining over Beiing, during this summer's Olympics.

http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/02/navy-research-p.html
 
kathaksung said:
The cyclone which killed 100,000 people, with great opportunity, was created by Pentagon. US has ability and motive to commit the crime. They have done it on its own citizens, in Katrina and in false flag attack 911 bombing, so what for Burma.
Click to expand...

those 2 sentences have more packed in conspiracies than jfk,the fake moon landing, roswell, area 51 and the entire run of the x-files ...methinks kathaksung didnt take his meds today



absolute proof of government weather machine conspiracy

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Q92zpt9QCYM

psst, it was jfk behind the weather machine controls that day
 
From the Jerusalem Post, an obviously biased but still worth-passing-on take <http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1210668683139&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull>on Bush and Iran:

US President George W. Bush intends to attack Iran in the upcoming months, before the end of his term, Army Radio quoted a senior official in Jerusalem as saying Tuesday.

http://robertdreyfuss.com/blog/2008/05/jerusalem_post_bush_plans_iran.html
 
But that doesn't beneficial anything to Pentagon. What they need is a weapon to kill, so you see tornado and hurricane. Katrina and Rita.

The cyclone which killed 100,000 people, with great opportunity, was created by Pentagon. US has ability and motive to commit the crime. They have done it on its own citizens, in Katrina and in false flag attack 911 bombing, so what for Burma.
Click to expand...

The problem with this is twofold - the fact that the use of good weather doesn't benefit the pentagon is untruthful and the fact that the pentagon gains by somehow destroying it's own infastructure in New Orleans is .

With good weather, the US benefits by having an increase in crops, and an increase in food avaliable to the people of the US. Also, with an increase in productivity in the agricultural sector the production of biofuels can increase, which would lead to a decrease in reliance on overseas oil production for the US military from Iran and other countries. Furthermore, as a result of the increase of productivity in the economy the US dollar would appreciate and allow the US to get more leverage in the world's financial markets. The positive tax income gained from this would benefit the pentagon as it's portion of the US budget would increase. How is this not beneficial ?

Also, how is hitting Keesler Air Force Base and the Marine Forces Reserve Headquarters in New Orleans beneficial for the US in any way ? (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/nationaldisasters/a/katrinabasedam.htm) Crippling their own military facilities seems a bit odd, doesn't it, especially if they can control the weather to such a degree ?
 
Direwolf said:
Yeah, I doubt I'm the only one here who actually has heard of weather modification projects too, but they've historically been fairly crude affairs such as cloud seeding and attempts to mitigate the impact of hurricanes.
Click to expand...

Well there is such a thing as weather modification, sure, but it usually extends to such things as dispersing rain clouds using chemicals.
 
Soviets used to do it to ensure the Victory Day parades were sunny.
 
kirovman said:
Soviets used to do it to ensure the Victory Day parades were sunny.
Click to expand...

They still do. There was a celebration for the sixtieth anniversary of the end of the second world war where they used it to disperse rain clouds over Moscow.
 
Bush 'plans Iran air strike by August'

By Muhammad Cohen
May 28,08

NEW YORK - The George W Bush administration plans to launch an air strike against Iran within the next two months, an informed source tells Asia Times Online, echoing other reports that have surfaced in the media in the United States recently.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JE28Ak01.html
 
Quote, 'Israeli press reports US pledge of war on Iran-is Bush preparing an October Surprise?

By Bill Van Auken
21 May 2008

An Israeli press report that US President George W. Bush intends to launch a military attack on Iran before he leaves office at the beginning of next year prompted a heated denial from the White House Tuesday.

The article, which appeared in Tuesday’s Jerusalem Post, cited a report on Israeli Army Radio, quoting Israeli officials who had met with Bush and his delegation during their visit to Israel last week.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/may2008/iran-m21.shtml
 
I think that if you asked the average American, "Should we invade Iran?", they'd respond, "I thought we did that in 2003?"
 
October Surprise sounds like a Mcdonalds burger.
 
I am less likely concerned about nuclear technology than their rocketry technology, because they are only going to kill their own populace with such short ranged weapons.

A nuclear attack against Israel; unfounded. Because they will start a war with palestine, due to the nuclear fallout blowing over to their own turf. Or at least an exchange of nasty words.
 
DEATH eVADER said:
A nuclear attack against Israel; unfounded. Because they will start a war with palestine, due to the nuclear fallout blowing over to their own turf. Or at least an exchange of nasty words.
Click to expand...

Who cares? They were martyred fi sabil Illah! Allah'u akbar! ALLAH'U AKBAR!!!!
You assume that religious people, and the worst kind of them, have the brains to consider the repercussions of their actions.
 
Nemesis6 said:
Who cares? They were martyred fi sabil Illah! Allah'u akbar! ALLAH'U AKBAR!!!!
You assume that religious people, and the worst kind of them, have the brains to consider the repercussions of their actions.
Click to expand...

Well, lets just hope the men who use the weapons actually have more sense.
 
Well it can be well assumed that the politicians themselves would have that much sense. It's pretty inescapable that if Iran openly launched a nuclear weapon at another country they'd get an international boot in the ass. The trick is whether they wouldn't pass it off to another group that could use the weapon, but as with most things of this sort it would be very naive to think it wouldn't get back to them eventually.

Given Iran's past, it's current political climate, and the actions of other nuclear states I'm relatively sure that they want a bomb so they can level the playing field and have a really good deterrent against any future invasion. What they do in the future is anyone's guess, but that's true for all countries.
 
Boot in the ass?
They'd be hung up by an anchor which was implanted into their ass using a lubricant made of arsenic.
 
Nemesis6 said:
Who cares? They were martyred fi sabil Illah! Allah'u akbar! ALLAH'U AKBAR!!!!
You assume that religious people, and the worst kind of them, have the brains to consider the repercussions of their actions.
Click to expand...

yes and obliterating the holyland is one of them :rolling:
 
Luckily if the majority of the population want something, the Bush regime is bound not to do it. So no war yet.
 
Overeacting.

Iran dont have the balls or the resources to start a nuclear war, Germany in the World Wars were extremely powerful when they took on the world, and they failed both times, Iran arent even close to the power that Germany had.

Worrying over nothing.
 
I'd never say that nuclear proliferation is nothing, but I'd agree on the overreacting bit.
 
U. S. Escalating Covert Operations against Iran

Reuters < June 29, 2008
Funding for the covert escalation, for which Bush requested up to $400 million, was approved by congressional leaders, according to the article, citing current and former military, intelligence and congressional sources.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080629/pl_nm/bush_iran_report_dc>
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/07/080707fa_fact_hersh=
 
Just keep on starting war and the world will hate bush and his adminitration even more :|
 
1. The real reason of high oil price

No question the oil price is caused by speculators. Who are those speculators? The financial group which control US economy. They have to do so to avoid an economic collapse. The direct reason for the oil to jump from $90/barrel to $138 is because Iran abandons US dollars as oil trade currency. To block that petro-dollar going back to US, they have to raise the oil price. From this point of view, Iran war is unavoidable.

Here is an article I wrote two years ago.

437. Manipulate oil price (9/20/2006)

After Bush took the presidency, he created a huge budget deficit, and a huge trade deficit as well. The deficit will cause a big inflation. So Federal Reserve has to raise the interest rate to deal with it. In June 2006, the overnight interest rate was raised to 5.25%. The Federal 10 years treasury bill was 5.25% too. The 30 years fix mortgage rate reached its recent high: 6.93%. Although this rate is still low viewed from history, it touches off a down turn of the real estate market. Because the price of house is stretched too tight that a tiny increase of the mortgage rate will cause a big change.

Feds hold a large quantity of houses in my case, they tried their best to keep the property value. What we saw are: Federal Reserve stops its step to raise the interest rate. Oil price declined. The rate of bonds goes down. So does the mortgage rate. From June to September, the bench mark rate of Federal funds stays at 5.25%. The rate of 10 year treasury note drops to 4.73% from 5.25%. The 30 years mortgage rate is 6.44% now.

Today you only pay 4.73% interest rate for a ten years long term loan but have to pay 5.25% rate for an overnight loan. Does that mean there will be no inflation within ten years? Or even mean there is a deflation? With common sense you know it's impossible as long as the oil price doubled in one year. All these were done by Feds to protect their property value so you saw these strange phenomenon.

1. Oil price.
The result of a big trade deficit is that foreign countries hold a large amount of US dollar. When US has not enough goods or assets to exchange these dollars back, it has to think of a way to make these countries to keep the dollar instead of dumping it. One way is to push up the oil price.

A country which consumes one million barrel of oil a year has to keep 30 million dollars in bank (when oil price is at 30 dollars/ barrel) Then how much should it reserve if the oil price jumped from 30/barrel to 60/barrel? It has to double its dollar reserve to 60 millions. So large amount of dollars were locked up in bank as oil payment (Dollar is the appointed currency in oil trading.)

Now you know why the oil price jumped so high. It is used to solve the deficit problem of US. To delay the US financial crisis. Who benefit from it?
(1) Oil export country.(Though much of them are Islamic countries which US dislike. There is no choice.)
(2) Speculator (mostly oil groups). They bought in large quantity of future contracts in a short period. Say, from 30/bar to 60/bar, the average price paid was 45/bar. Then when the market was steady at 60/bar to 75/bar, they sold it at average of 67.5/bar. Their profit is 22.5/bar.
(3) Federal Reserve and US economy. Federal Reserve can avoid to pay a high interest rate in order to lure the dollar in. US can avoid a financial crises.

The loser is always the average people. They have to take the final cost - a higher gas price.

But it's a double side sword. High oil price will also cause inflation to force the rising of interest rate. When it endangers real estate market, then we saw a dramatic decline of oil price. (from 75/bar/Aug 3 to 60/bar/Sept 19, a 20% decline in 6 weeks.) After all, the interest of Feds, is above everything else.

To keep in mind that when the oil price went up this year, it's not that oil supply was in shortage. And when the oil price drops recently, it's not that there is less demand. It's not a market economy any more. It's an artificial manipulating market.

Greenspan knew it. But he could only say what he was allowed to say.
Quote, "The former Fed chief also detailed how investors, rather than users of oil, have come to set the price of oil through purchasing futures contracts."
 
kathaksung said:
1. The real reason of high oil price

No question the oil price is caused by speculators. Who are those speculators? The financial group which control US economy. They have to do so to avoid an economic collapse. The direct reason for the oil to jump from $90/barrel to $138 is because Iran abandons US dollars as oil trade currency. To block that petro-dollar going back to US, they have to raise the oil price. From this point of view, Iran war is unavoidable.

/snip*
Click to expand...
You know? I wonder if Kathaksung really speaks the truth this time? No seriously, the high oil prices makes since from this point of view. :|
 
Saturos said:
You know? I wonder if Kathaksung really speaks the truth this time? No seriously, the high oil prices makes since from this point of view. :|
Click to expand...
He isn't exactly the first to think of that, though.
 
2. How US takes advantage on Petro-dollars? It is a long term loan without interest.

US printed some paper in green, call it dollar. US buys clothes, shoes from other countries with dollars. Other countries then buy food, planes from US with the dollars they earned. That's normal trade. But petrol dollar is different. When US pay dollar for some merchandise from other country, the other country use it as payment in oil trading. Since oil trading needs large amount of money, and dollar is apointed as trading money, huge amount of money are reserved in bank for oil trading. That is petro-dollar. That's how US turns a piece of paper into a long term non interest loan bill.

It is just like US bought a house from Japan for one million dollars. Japan keeps that money in bank as payment for oil. Normally, US has to pay monthly mortgage for that house. But with petro dollar, US enjoys a house almost free. All its cost is the printing of green paper. US doesn't have to pay a penny of interest, as long as the principle. How long is that long term loan? As long as the dollar is appointed oil trading currency.

But now is different, Iran refuses to accept dollars. Japan has to change it into other currency. Theoretically, US has to take it back by merchandise. But US can't. It has a trade dificit already. US also has no enough gold or foreign currency reserve to exchange the petro- dollar back. What it does is to push up the oil price - let other countries to absorb the petro-dollar Japan dumped in the market.

US is a rich country. Partly because it enjoys a long term non interest loan. As oil trading is a big business, what a huge amount of money is locked in it? Or in another word, what a big debt US has had? Since US spent too much and hasn't save something, when others want it to pay the debt, a trick to avoid payment is to push up the oil price. And the next step, as we all see, is to justify an excuse to have a war on Iran.
 
... it's a poll... I really doubt it holds any real merit. I didn't get interviewed. Nobody I talked to lately said anything about being interviewed, I'd probably suspect they just made up some bullshit numbers. I really doubt that, even if that's a percent of people they interviewed, this is the real view of America.
 
Saturos said:
You know? I wonder if Kathaksung really speaks the truth this time? No seriously, the high oil prices makes since from this point of view. :|
Click to expand...

High oil prices are caused by government tax. Remove the tax, and they wold be well affordable.
 
You mean high petrol prices are caused by government tax, rather than oil?
(Petrol and oil prices are linked, but as products, petrol =/= oil)

And that's just in the case of the UK, oil prices worldwide are skyhigh, but I'm unaware of any large taxes that the exporting governments slap on oil.
Reducing these 'governmental taxes' that you refer to wouldn't bring down oil prices worldwide as far as I'm aware and its certainly not affordable to many in the world.
 
kathaksung instead of the elaborate reasoning as to why the US dollar is falling in value, do you not think maybe it's because the US government is incompetent in balancing it's spending?
 
kathaksung instead of the elaborate reasoning as to why the US dollar is falling in value, do you not think maybe it's because the US government is incompetent in balancing it's spending?
Click to expand...

Nice. Just, frickin' nice one mate! :thumbs:
 
3. The main reason is not supply and demand. It's US manipulating the oil price by oil reserve and future contract.

(1) Quote, "The former Fed chief also detailed how investors, rather than users of oil, have come to set the price of oil through purchasing futures contracts." Though Greespan use "investors" instead of "speculators".

(2) From supply side:

08-03-05. OPEC to maintain current production; blames US for economic ’mismanagement’
Published: Wednesday, March 5, 2008 | 3:03 PM ET
Canadian Press: William Kole, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

OPEC President Chakib Khelil told reporters the global market is being affected by what he called "the mismanagement of the U.S. economy," and that America's problems were a key factor in the cartel's decision to hold off on any action.

"If the prices are high, definitely they are not due to a lack of crude. They are due to what's happening in the U.S.," Khelil said. "There is sufficient supply. There's plenty of oil there."

Though Khelil uses "US economy" instead of "speculators".

(3) From demand side:

Quote, "Shell CEO says record oil not due to shortage
Thu May 22, 2008 5:24pm BST
http://uk.reuters.com/article/oilRpt/idUKL2232289720080522

(4) What US Senate Committee found:

Quote, "The real reason why oil prices are rising

June 02, 2008
...........
The finding of US Senate Committee in 2006
In June 2006, when the oil price in the futures markets was about $60 a barrel, a Senate Committee in the US probed the role of market speculation in oil and gas prices. The report points out that large purchase of crude oil futures contracts by speculators has, in effect, created additional demand for oil and in the process driven up the future prices of oil.......
The report further estimated that speculative purchases of oil futures had added as much as $20-25 per barrel to the then prevailing price of $60 per barrel. In today's prices of approximately $130 per barrel, this means that approximately $100 per barrel could be attributed to speculation!...

*What is interesting to note is that the US strategic oil reserves were at approximately 350 million barrels for a decade till 2006. However, for the past year and a half these reserves have doubled to more than 700 million barrels. Naturally, this build-up of strategic oil reserves by the US (of 350 million barrels) is adding enormous pressure on the oil demand and consequently its prices.

http://www.rediff.com/money/2008/jun/02mrv.htm
 
He's not far off the truth there but it's not much of a conspiracy. What does it have to do with Iran?

Speculating on the value of oil and most commodities happens all the time.
 
Qonfused said:
Holy ****.

No, I'm overreacting. You're all right. A ****ing telephone poll to citizens in Alabama (or any other redneck, confederate state) applies to the entire U.S. population. Bullshit on that poll. I will not believe that half of the population believes that Iran should be invaded. If it is true, I'm moving to Canada faster than I expected to.

And all of your "lol amerikan" attitudes need to ****ing stop. I'm am not a patriot, and I minimally support this country, but ****ing hell, it's starting to get a bit old, don't you think? Do all of you have an anti-American piece of text copied, ready to paste at a moment's notice? As much as I love to come into a thread, reading pages of knee-jerk comments from English people constantly bashing this country, it needs to ****ing stop. ****.

I know our "leader" is a ****ed up piece. We all hate him (no poll can convince me otherwise). He shouldn't have been even elected in 2000 (apparently an electoral college system is better than a goddamn simple total vote count, holy ****). Yes, there is cause to bash America as it may seem like all of us are in this together. But we aren't. You're wasting your time by constantly typing shit like this, and Stern too, with posting this shit.

And Stern, you know how I feel about 95% of the threads you start, so I don't really need to delve into that, do I?
Click to expand...


Not just the English...
EDIT: WTF kathaksung?
 
4. Oil price goes up when Iran abandon Dollar as its oil trade currency. Time table:

(1) (Intention period)

In the end of 2006 and early 2007, the oil price was about $60/barrel. When Iran expressed its intention to use the euro for foreign transactions.

It was about $70/barrel in early July/07. In six months, it rose 10 dollars per barrel.
06-12-18. Iran scraps Dollar, takes on Euro

Mon. 18 Dec 2006
Iran Focus

Tehran, Iran, Dec. 18 - Iran's central bank will begin to use the euro for foreign transactions, replacing the long-established dollar system, government spokesman Gholam-Hossein Elham told reporters during his weekly press conference on Monday.

http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=9533

(2) Practising period.

From early July 2007 to the end of January 2008, in seven months, oil price rose from $60/barrel to $95/barrel. In this period, Iran completed its oil trading from dollar to foreign currency.

Quote, " Iran wants yen

July 13/2007 (Bloomberg) -- Iran asked Japanese refiners to switch to the yen to pay for all crude oil purchases, after Iran's central bank said it is reducing holdings of the U.S. dollar."

(3) Expand to future deal.

Early February 2008 to 7/4/2008, oil price was pushed up from $95 to $147 a barrel. That's a $50 dollars inflation in five months. Why I start this period from Februry 2008? Because Iran's Bourse innaugurated on Feb.17. When the oil customers of Iran have to buy the future contract by reserving more foreign currency in the bank, US has to push up the price, let other OPEC customers absorb the Petro-dollars dumped by Iran customers.

Quote, "Iran Oil Bourse to deal blow to dollar
Fri, 04 Jan 2008
The long-awaited Iranian Oil Bourse, a place for trading oil, petrochemicals and gas in various non-dollar currencies, will soon open.

Iran's Finance Minister Davoud Danesh-Jafari told reporters the bourse will be inaugurated during the anniversary of the Islamic Revolution (February 1-11) at the latest.

Some expert opinions hold inauguration of the bourse cold significantly devalue the greenback.
http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=37468&sectionid=351020103
 
High oil price (5) (7/29/08)

In Oil (4) I talked about Iran intended to turn the oil trading from dollar into euro in December 2006. Did Iran deliberately do that? Read the following information:

468. Follow up to #467, #461 and #462 (2/20/07)

On 1/15 and 1/20, I wrote #461 and #462, alleged that US had set up a Euro trap for Iran: If the December plot started, Euro would collapse due to the collapse of WANTA fund and the shortage of oil supply to the Europe. Iran not only would be bombed, but also suffered a huge loss in finance. On 2/1, an article proved the correctness of my analysis.

Re: "The War on Iran
Thursday, 01 February 2007
By Stephen Gowans

In Paulson’s view, Iran is still a major player globally, and needs to suffer the same pariah treatment. (New York Times, September 17, 2006) In October, US Treasury Department officials banned US banks from facilitating transactions involving Iran’s state-owned Bank Saderat. In January, the ban was widened to include another Iranian bank, Bank Sepah.

When Iran sells oil to a customer in Germany, the German customer asks a European bank to deposit US dollars into an Iranian bank account. The European bank then arranges for the transfer of US dollars from a US bank to an Iranian bank account in Europe. Paulson’s ban prohibits US banks from transferring funds if Bank Saderat and Bank Sepah are involved. (New York Times, October 16, 2006) With oil sales denominated in US dollars, the aim is to impede Iran’s ability to sell oil. The way around the US manoeuvre is to sell oil in Euros, something Iran has already begun to do. (New York Times, January 10, 2007)

This would seem to be a simple enough way of beating the US at its own game. It also raises questions about the prudence of compelling Iran to switch to Euros, since a change to Euros, if adopted by a number of oil-exporting countries, would push down the value of the US greenback. US investment banker John Hermann, a comptroller of currency in the Carter administration, wonders whether the US is shooting itself in the foot. (New York Times, October 16, 2006)

http://www.ichblog.eu/content/view/261/52/

In October, US blocked the financial transaction between US banks and major Iran bank which forced Iran to turn on to Euro instead of Dollar in oil trading. Two months later, if the December plot succeeded, Iran would suffer a big loss in finance. The US investment banker John Hermann wonders whether the US is shooting itself in the foot then. He wouldn't have that puzzle if he reads my messages."

It's no others but US himself who forced Iran to turn on Euro. In December 2006 they set up a Euro trap. But the plot went soured. Since the process is irreversible, and the Feds is unwilling to raise the interest, to save the dollar, they have to push up the oil price. We the people have to eat the bad fruit planted by the Feds.

Someone or a group inside the government created a situation to make war on Iran.
 
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