North Korea says: WE SWEAR TO TEST OUR NUKES!

[kirovman]

I think Kim Jong-Il is A-O-K.

 

[15357]

yes because it's only logical that the north would nuke the south in a cleansing radioactive ball of fire ..only to die en masse shorty thereafter of radiation sickness due to their extreme proximity to the blast site :rolling: ...you're seeing threats were there are none Numbers ..BOO look a commie! kill his entire family and eat the remains before they suck your brains out while you're asleep the heartless inhuman commie bastards!!!

So far, they have yet to do a thing thats logical.

Kim Jyong is a danger to us all. Action needs to be taken. And not sanctions.

I wholeheartedly agree. <3

I think Kim Jong-Il is A-O-K.

You have 15 seconds to comply. 13. 12. 11. 10. 9...

 

[gick]

Kim Jyong is a danger to us all. Action needs to be taken. And not sanctions.

OK, Dubyah, the games up - give us back our Solaris!

 

[repiV]

Yes, perhaps I do. All I know is, that Kim Jong Il and his cronies in the communist party are not Korean, and not even human.

How do you draw that conclusion?
If anything, North Korea is the real Korea, the result of Korean culture and values - values that guide YOUR thought processes such as unquestioning loyalty, subordination and collectivism. Although what you bizarrely do not realise is that if your vision was realised, your country would be little different from your neighbours to the north.
The liberty you enjoy in South Korea is due to Western ideological influence, not Confucius.

 

[Nemesis6]

I don't think Korean culture and values equal communism, death camps and socialist brainwash, all under the guise of a dictator trying to get nukes. But hey, that's just me. I'm not that much into Korean culture or history. Not all that much, anyway.

Anyway, I remember a website of a Russian going to see North Korea. The place was so sad, so grey. It was like the entire cityscape just cried "Kill me, please.", old worn appartment buildings, all grey of course, etc. I'll let you know if I find the link.

EDIT: What are the odds? Take a look for yourself: http://www.tema***/travel/choson-1/

Here's a translation of the site, complete with pictures - http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=82755

 

[repiV]

Korean culture and values equal subordination, unquestioning loyalty to an all-knowing dictatorship, and general totalitarianism.
Ive seen plenty of pictures of North Korea - its a pretty foreboding place. Id love to visit, though.

 

[kirovman]

Yeah, North Korea is pretty much Pure-Confucius style.

 

[Nemesis6]

Behold, the Pearl of the North - Pyongyang: http://www.tema***/travel/choson-1/_MG_0350.jpg



By the way, 15357, I've got a question if you don't mind: I heard that North Koreans speak a special dialect. Do people in the North and South understand one another?

Double by the way, Kirovman: The only problem is that all religious activities or behavior is supressed by the government.

 

[kirovman]

I like the Ivy covered house in that picture.
I read an article saying that the language is the same, but some of the words (e.g. English adaptations) are different, and conversations can get confusing.

Confuciusm isn't really a religion, it's more of a philosophy - obey your leader unquestioningly, which suits their government really well.

 

[CptStern]

I think the real difference is that there's no words for "commie scum" in North Korean dialect

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Ow, my brain.
Seriously, I am utterly and honestly really depressed by the fact that Numbers is making Kim Jong Il look good by comparison.

I mean, North Korea is a huge retarded isolationist cult. They have an excuse for being retarded. They're the bad guys.
Numbers, you're a kid with an internet connection in a "good" country. What's your excuse?

Because I am fed up to here with the standard line "oh I was brought up hating north korea so I can't stop now lolololol, I love hitler lololol I'm so stupid lol I can't help it". If kim-jong il were identical - but south korean - you'd have a throatful right now, with tears of joy.

The enemy isn't communist or facism. It's stupidity, of the same variety you're guzzling routinely.

Seriously, the first reaction to an announcement for a nuclear test is to start profanely screaming for genocide against north korea on the internet?
Give me a reason to give a shit if you get nuked, because with MAD that outcome sounds pretty damn good to me.


I'm so, so sick of stupidity.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Seriously, the first reaction to an announcement for a nuclear test is to start profanely screaming for genocide against north korea on the internet?
Give me a reason to give a shit if you get nuked, because with MAD that outcome sounds pretty damn good to me.

What if we started testing Nukes along the Canadian border? "ZOMG BUSH IS TEH EVAL WE MUST END HIS NUKLEAR TESTS NOW GET OUT OF IRAQ BOO ELECT A LIBERAL YAY!" Arguements would be all over the place.

Also, your saying that a fellow member of this forum dying in a nuclear war is a good thing ... or that maybe you would'nt care?

You are sssoooo angry right now ... you could probably bite the head off a pregnant kitten. :rolling:

 

[Danimal]

On a lighter note, kittens can't get pregnant.

 

[15357]

Ow, my brain.
Seriously, I am utterly and honestly really depressed by the fact that Numbers is making Kim Jong Il look good by comparison.

I mean, North Korea is a huge retarded isolationist cult. They have an excuse for being retarded. They're the bad guys.
Numbers, you're a kid with an internet connection in a "good" country. What's your excuse?

Because I am fed up to here with the standard line "oh I was brought up hating north korea so I can't stop now lolololol, I love hitler lololol I'm so stupid lol I can't help it". If kim-jong il were identical - but south korean - you'd have a throatful right now, with tears of joy.

The enemy isn't communist or facism. It's stupidity, of the same variety you're guzzling routinely.

Seriously, the first reaction to an announcement for a nuclear test is to start profanely screaming for genocide against north korea on the internet?
Give me a reason to give a shit if you get nuked, because with MAD that outcome sounds pretty damn good to me.


I'm so, so sick of stupidity.

#1. Not for genocide, for massive surgical stikes on all northern military installations.

#2. Well, yes. But the fact is, he's from the North. Which makes all the difference here.

#3. Well, there isn't any reason. You're pretty much halfway across the world, you have no need to care, really.

#4. Kill them all!

 

[delusional]

you support killing yourself 15357?

 

[Mechagodzilla]

What if we started testing Nukes along the Canadian border? "ZOMG BUSH IS TEH EVAL WE MUST END HIS NUKLEAR TESTS NOW GET OUT OF IRAQ BOO ELECT A LIBERAL YAY!" Arguements would be all over the place.

Last I checked, nuclear testing has been going on in america on-and-off since the bomb was invented.
I remember news that George Bush was going to restart weapons testing, but all I felt was dismay, bordering on indifference. I'm not even sure what happened with the legislation.
Obviously most people dislike nuclear tests, but that's not what I'm focusing on here. I'm focusing on the fact that North Korea is a dictatorship and so is South Korea.
Dictatorships are stupid and I would not cry if they imploded and destroyed themselves.

MAD means mutually assured destruction.

If North and South blow eachother up, that's two less threats to the intelligent people of the world.

Also, I'm not a liberal.

"Also, your saying that a fellow member of this forum dying in a nuclear war is a good thing ... or that maybe you would'nt care?"

That's exactly what I'm saying, and it's true. If Numbers died, I would not shed a tear. I didn't cry for Saddam and his supporters either.
A dictatorship, even if it's an ally to America, is still a dictatorship.

See, I honestly believe in freedom, but not in some abstract way where you salute a flag while secretly torturing detainees. I believe that freedom is tangible, it is quantifiable, and it can actually exist in the spread of American-style democracy. That's part of why I am so unhappy to see the state of the nation crumble down to the point that you can accuse me of being a liberal.
Accuse me of questioning you. As though that's an insult or a crime.
I miss america.

Numbers believes in fascism. He believes in it unquestioningly. He supports a military dictatorship that limits human freedoms. I'm not going to make any illusions that he's my friend.
I'll speak with him in a civil way, I'll try to show him his very many wrongs through logical argumentation, but I will not cry when he dies.

Why?

Because I am serious about freedom. It's not a buzzword to toss out as an epiphet the same way you toss out "liberal" as though the simple fact that you disagree with me makes you a martyr to a cause that you refuse to define in any cogent way.
Why is being liberal on some policies bad?
Judging from your posts, it's because they just are.
For you, liberal = immoral. Yet I'm the one who is in opposition to an avowed fascist here.
Or maybe you actually dislike fascism too.
If that's the case, why are you harping on me?

Treating politics so frivolously that you can demonize my ideas without even understanding them shows me that this is nothing more than a game to you.
Is this the freedom you want to spread to the world?
The one where morality is whatever you want and evil is everything you've been raised to misunderstand?

Prove me wrong. It's as easy as, in one short post, defining freedom and then establishing a logical framework through which maximum freedom can be attained.

Here's my try:

Freedom is the ability to do what you want without harming others.

Maximum freedom can be attained by allowing everything - except those actions which cause harm and, in the case of an inevitable conflict, all but the minimum harm.

That's not the world Numbers lives in, and I don't think it's where you live either.
Why, other than being "non-liberal" is Number's dictatorship something good to you?

 

[15357]

Behold, the Pearl of the North - Pyongyang: http://www.tema***/travel/choson-1/_MG_0350.jpg



By the way, 15357, I've got a question if you don't mind: I heard that North Koreans speak a special dialect. Do people in the North and South understand one another?

Double by the way, Kirovman: The only problem is that all religious activities or behavior is supressed by the government.

Somewhat. There are major differences in words, and in the tone people speak in. The North speak in a high tone of voice that gradually lowers down, whiule we speak generally in a low tone of voice. The north uses different words for western-originated words, such as electric switches. People can understand each other, but not too well.

As stern said, there is no word for commie scum in the north.

And our word for Made in USA is Imperialist America in "North Korean". D:

Northern Scarecrow Army in "South Korean" is a name of a infection in the North. D: D: D:

you support killing yourself 15357?

Hell no.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Last I checked, nuclear testing has been going on in america on-and-off since the bomb was invented.

Yes, but were not doing it to deter or threaten anyone in the international community.

Nuclear Weapons for most western nations appeal mostly as tools in diplomacy not war, as oppose to most countries who've never experienced a cold war scare or ever deployed them for use in real combat, which tend to revere or look up to the devastation those weapons cause. The unfortunate side of things is that someone in power will always believe they're use is nessecary -- first if before anything, those are the people we must fear.

I'm not sure what Oppenheimer was thinking when we bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but I'm sure he at least hoped mankinds future generations would've appreciated that weapons such as these should have limited to no use in the western world after World War II.

And were on different pages here -- you're still argueing from the stance as if North Korea has not tested a Nuclear Weapon. I'm talking from the now where I almost completely understand why Numbers is acting the way he does. (In the way that North Korea's Government is really batshit insane and tested nuclear weapons.)

Would'nt you be terrified if alongside a slew of anti-Canadian rhetoric we were testing Nuclear Weapons alongside your border? The point of this question is to see if you can understand from inside yourself what numbers might be feeling. Berating him, or even charging me with a lack of understanding, is only ignoring the fact that you too have managed to forget what its like to make a stand to protect yourself.

Maybe you just don't perceive the threat as he does -- I can't quite say it for you. But what he needs is understanding and not an attack.

 

[kirovman]

And were on different pages here -- you're still argueing from the stance as if North Korea has not tested a Nuclear Weapon. I'm talking from the now where I almost completely understand why Numbers is acting the way he does.

Message posted on 06-10-2006, 06:36 AM

Also, NK has tested a bomb, but they don't really have a way to deliver.

This test is simply a way of pushing the US into bilateral talks (probably unsuccessfully) - which the US has been refusing since Bush came in.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Today, 05:09 PM October 9th was when I made my post, thank you very much Kirov.

Also, NK has tested a bomb

Captain Obvious! Your LATE.

http://www.tehrantimes.com/Description.asp?Da=10/10/2006&Cat=2&Num=021

This test is simply a way of pushing the US into bilateral talks (probably unsuccessfully) - which the US has been refusing since Bush came in.

Is a bilateral talk something your hoping for?

 

[kirovman]

Today, 05:09 PM October 9th was when I made my post, thank you very much Kirov.

My heart warms for you.

Captain Obvious! Your LATE.

http://www.tehrantimes.com/Description.asp?Da=10/10/2006&Cat=2&Num=021

Indeed.

Is a bilateral talk something your hoping for?

Well, it seems better than isolating them, which has pushed them towards developing the bomb in the first place. Bush's administration has seen no WMD in Iraq, whilst NK and Iran advance their own programmes unimpeded.
The US can talk tough, but that encourages people to develop weapons all the more. Especially now that their hands are tied with Iraq and Afghanistan.


Also, there's a lot of information suggesting that this bomb fizzled - possibly well short of intended yield.

 

[Raziaar]

Behold, the Pearl of the North - Pyongyang: http://www.tema***/travel/choson-1/_MG_0350.jpg



By the way, 15357, I've got a question if you don't mind: I heard that North Koreans speak a special dialect. Do people in the North and South understand one another?

Double by the way, Kirovman: The only problem is that all religious activities or behavior is supressed by the government.

Their city there reminds me of my sim city 4 towns... which have the color of dirt due to neglect and my incapability.

 

[Geogaddi]

Big Post.

Mecha, you just nailed down everything I've wanted to say on this subject but lacked the literary skill to produce.

Thank you.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

My heart warms for you.

Damnit! Well, so your at least affirming you gave the wrong time and date right? Good! I win that one! :cheers:

Well, it seems better than isolating them, which has pushed them towards developing the bomb in the first place. Bush's administration has seen no WMD in Iraq, whilst NK and Iran advance their own programmes unimpeded.

What would bilateral talks ensure North Korea and Iran? More time to develope they're weapons programes while they refuse to disarm. You could'nt have forgotten the past four years, let alone the Clinton Administrations attempt at preserving Peace in Asia and the Middle East? They did'nt just develope their weapons yesterday -- or suddenly on an urge the Bush Administration would make a program for their militaries to invade.

Thats just an easy justification -- and not widely popular, but only with those countries warhawks. Each of those countries has had their reasons besides the United States and whatever threat it posed; North Korea wants more influence over the Sea of Japan and to gain global notriety so other countries can pay for its mistakes. Iran wants to produce Nuclear Weapons to take Israel right out -- and don't tell me you forgot that quote. "Zomg USA THREAT!!1" more fear mongering from some place different in another part of the globe meant to advance those countries military and industrial complexes.

Ultimately, bilateral talks need to be less focused on appeasement and distraction. Further, simply pressing something that has not achieved any concrete resolution is only telling the North Koreans and western citizens alike that we can be denied. I'm not for war, but we still need another resolution or course change in our abilities to employ diplomacy as a tool to keep peace in the region of the Eastern and South Eastern Asian continent.

 

[kirovman]

Still, this will be seen as [another] Bush failure, as he's had about 6 years to try and stop Kim building nukes.

All that tough talk for nothing, it seems.

 

[Raziaar]

Still, this will be seen as [another] Bush failure, as he's had about 6 years to try and stop Kim building nukes.

All that tough talk for nothing, it seems.

Well... I don't like bush anymore, but that seems a little unfair. Considering everybody has been bitching nonstop about possible military action against iran and north korea, and how awful that'd be. It'd be quite hypocritical to accuse bush of being a failure to the country, when people didn't want him to take military action against north korea in the first place.

 

[kirovman]

Well... I don't like bush anymore, but that seems a little unfair. Considering everybody has been bitching nonstop about possible military action against iran and north korea, and how awful that'd be. It'd be quite hypocritical to accuse bush of being a failure to the country, when people didn't want him to take military action against north korea in the first place.

I think the point is, that he took military action on grounds of "WMD in Iraq", which proved to be false, when real programmes were developing in two other countries (well, one is real for sure). I think that's the outrageous thing. What was Iraq for then? If it was for oil, or a foothold in the territory, it sure doesn't seem worth it now. You could have used more cunning diplomacy to play enemies Iraq and Iran off against each other.

The US could have given Iraq and Iran nukes, covertly, and allowed them to destroy each other and the outcome would have probably have been better than now (my hypothetical speculation).

 

[<RJMC>]

one thing that make glad of a stupid and crappy stuff here called goverment,is that they condem the test,considering chavez was becoming ally of n korea

 

[Jintor]

What is it someone said? "The United States found an Axis of Evil. Two were definantly moving towards a nuclear weapons program. The US attacked the third without UN sanction. And now, when North Korea begins nuclear testing, the US blames the UN for inactivity."

 

[Icarusintel]

What is it someone said? "The United States found an Axis of Evil. Two were definantly moving towards a nuclear weapons program. The US attacked the third without UN sanction. And now, when North Korea begins nuclear testing, the US blames the UN for inactivity."

Attacking North Korea would basically be suicide for South Korea. And there's no reason not to blame the UN, they've failed to do a sufficient job on numerous occasions. They can spend money and hand out aid, but beyond that I've yet to see them accomplish much of anything.

 

[kirovman]

The UN is only as good as it's member states.

 

[CptStern]

yes ..contrary to popular belief the UN has no army ..you cant walk into a UN recruiting office and ask to join the UN military because there is no such thing ..the UN's forces are made up of it's member states military ..so if they want military action is some part of the world members have to agree to deploy troops

 

[Icarusintel]

The UN is only as good as it's member states.

Which are more than the US, but some people seem to forget that, especially when it comes to aid and troop allocation.

 

[Puzzlemaker]

This thread is the perfect testament as to why I don't like the politics section.

Nevertheless, I will give my opinion.

"Violence doesn't solve most things"

Yes, I misquoted that on purpose. Violence doesn't solve most things. If a man is hopped up on drugs and running at you with a pocketknife, violence is in order. You can keep it to a mininum and take him down without hurting him too much, but violence is still nessasary.

Now, the way I see this is, That bloke in NK is getting a bigger gun. "Hey look guys, I have a bigger gun. Don't mess with me!"

One of two things can happen. Everyone else goes, "Okay, so you got a bigger gun. Fine." And continue trying ignore him while he jumps up and down for attention.

Second thing that can happen is NK continues escalating to try to get what they want. This is what I am afraid of; they escalate too much, it ends up with someone pushing back.

 

[pvtbones]

This thread is the perfect testament as to why I don't like the politics section.

Nevertheless, I will give my opinion.

"Violence doesn't solve most things"

Yes, I misquoted that on purpose. Violence doesn't solve most things. If a man is hopped up on drugs and running at you with a pocketknife, violence is in order. You can keep it to a mininum and take him down without hurting him too much, but violence is still nessasary.

Now, the way I see this is, That bloke in NK is getting a bigger gun. "Hey look guys, I have a bigger gun. Don't mess with me!"

One of two things can happen. Everyone else goes, "Okay, so you got a bigger gun. Fine." And continue trying ignore him while he jumps up and down for attention.

Second thing that can happen is NK continues escalating to try to get what they want. This is what I am afraid of; they escalate too much, it ends up with someone pushing back.

Quoted for absolute truth

 

[Jintor]

Which are more than the US, but some people seem to forget that, especially when it comes to aid and troop allocation.

The League of Nations failed mostly because of the lack of US support and its inability to impose punishments on countries that deliberately set out to make trouble in the world.

How effective is the UN with the US not actually actively supporting it and in some cases totally ignoring it?

 

[el Chi]

This has probably been addressed multiple times, but I can't be bothered to read the thread as itt's early and I don't want to be late for work. Yes, you needed to know that. Big time.

Anyway. Whilst I don't agree with N. Korea, or indeed with nuclear armament in general, I find it tremendously hypocritical that countries such as my own and the US feel we can wag our collective finger at N. Korea and tell them they can't have nukes.

The US has enough to blow the planet to buggery God knows how many times; a few months ago the UK Chancellor of the Exchequer was weighing up public funding whether it should be used on schools or hospitals or new nukes (I believe nukes won) ; when India and Pakistan obtained them illegally, we said nothing (To be fair, they're only gonna blow the shit out of each other and they're foreign so who cares?) ; when Israel obtains nukes illegally and the US, in particular, said NOTHING.

Nuclear capabilities are taken as THE sign that you have made it as a nation; as a military force; you're one of the big boys now. If they say they want them and the other nuclear powers say "No, you're a threat" it's hypocritical.

Again, I'm not saying that makes it right.

I used to care, and I used to think that we should be over there liberating the North instead of pissing around in Iraq. I would have begged them to let me join the Army/Marines and help.
But now...what's the point of risking/giving your life to help people who are so brainwashed they would see you as your sworn enemy and try and kill you? Who actually believe in their oppression?
It's a lost cause.

Because the people in Iraq are just SO well-disposed towards our troops.
I'm not saying that means we should invade N. Korea, nor am I saying that that means we should pull out of Iraq, I'm just pointing out a flaw.

Veto powers kind of **** that up though.

Veto powers smell.

 

[15357]

This thread is the perfect testament as to why I don't like the politics section.

Nevertheless, I will give my opinion.

"Violence doesn't solve most things"

Yes, I misquoted that on purpose. Violence doesn't solve most things. If a man is hopped up on drugs and running at you with a pocketknife, violence is in order. You can keep it to a mininum and take him down without hurting him too much, but violence is still nessasary.

Now, the way I see this is, That bloke in NK is getting a bigger gun. "Hey look guys, I have a bigger gun. Don't mess with me!"

One of two things can happen. Everyone else goes, "Okay, so you got a bigger gun. Fine." And continue trying ignore him while he jumps up and down for attention.

Second thing that can happen is NK continues escalating to try to get what they want. This is what I am afraid of; they escalate too much, it ends up with someone pushing back.

Now the way see it, the nut in NK is getting a grenade launcher, and replaced the gun he had pointing at us for 5 decades with it.


Weg kill the bastards now and they can't procure more nuclear weapons, or use it against us. That is what I've been saying for the last 5 years.

 

[VictimOfScience]

We'll never attack NK because of WMDs because they simply don't have any and we are sure as sh1t not going to try that again. What Mr. Il might have is a nuclear device or two, but certainly not a weapon. The difference is huge in terms of time, size, and power. It will take them a good many years to turn whatever they have into a warhead small enough to be affixed to a missile (that presupposes that they fix their missile program too) and launched at someone. Kim is not about to do anything as nuts as do that A. because he can't and B. because he is all about keeping his regime intact. He just wants to be heard and this is the best way he can do it. And you know what? Its working. Just as it did with Iran. These guys are all hot air. But the world cannot take the risk of not taking them seriously, which is why their nuclear rhetoric works so damn well.

 

[99.vikram]

I for one will be prepared for World War III with an umbrella over my head, to shield from radioactive ash that shall rain down from the skies!

VictimOfScience, NK need not have developed the WMDs themselves. There are parties in the world who will sell their nuclear know how and raw materials.