Oh Noes!!! No Realistic body reactions??

[TheWart]

I just saw this in Info thread:

"This is done for performance. In most games, including ours, after the body dies, it will eventually fade away so that it's no longer drawn. Also, turning off the collisions on the model improve performance."


Does that mean that unlike say Far Cry, the dead bodies don't react properly and one can thus have multiple dead bodies "sticking" into each other rather then them being stacked correctly?

That kind of sucks.

 

[Stigmata]

I'd assume it depends if the mapper chooses whether to flag models as non-collidable or not (is that even possible in HL2 Hammer?). And yes, it does mean that ragdolls will stick into each other.

 

[crabcakes66]

I imagine there will be ingame settings to decide how long you want bodies to stay.
We already know dead bodies are ragdolled so im not sure what the problem is there.......


What sucks more? having a body no longer be physically simulated after 20 seconds and disapear after 30 seconds....or having 400 million polys that your Gf4 MX has to render?

 

[DvS]

Talking about misinterpretation. I honestly don't see how what they said can be construded as the ragdolls not colliding with another.

 

[Esquire]

God no!

vxcvxcvcxxc

 

[Aphal]

Talking about misinterpretation. I honestly don't see how what they said can be construded as the ragdolls not colliding with another.

"Also, turning off the collisions on the model improve performance."

 

[TheWart]

I imagine there will be ingame settings to decide how long you want bodies to stay.
We already know dead bodies are ragdolled so im not sure what the problem is there.......


What sucks more? having a body no longer be physically simulated after 20 seconds and disapear after 30 seconds....or having 400 million polys that your Gf4 MX has to render?

Firstly, I did not know this...infact I could of sworn Valve said the opposite in past emails...anyway, I *really* hope they are not targetting the GF4MX crowd, cause then the game will look like crap.

Sure, they can have the options to help the people who still have low-end cards, but dont leave out the people with decent video cards.

 

[Lanthanide]

What I hope, is that unlike farcry, if you kill a monster that is jumping at you in mid-flight and it's corpse hits you, you should take damage.

So often you'd kill a monster that was leaping at you and all of a sudden it's harmless, even though it still has the same mass and everything, it's just now 'dead' instead of 'alive', yet it does 0 damage. Stupid.

 

[Aphal]

Firstly, I did not know this...infact I could of sworn Valve said the opposite in past emails...anyway, I *really* hope they are not targetting the GF4MX crowd, cause then the game will look like crap.

Sure, they can have the options to help the people who still have low-end cards, but dont leave out the people with decent video cards.

http://steampowered.com/status/survey.html

 

[CrazyHarij]

I think it's good that they turn that stuff off if it's such a performance hit, but I want to be able to choose whether bodies will fade or not.

 

[TheWart]

http://steampowered.com/status/survey.html

I know that most people who still play the HL1 engine games (which are based on a pretty old engine ) predominately have lower end cards, but I still do not think Valve should skimp on the eye candy or immersion factor.

Besides, iirc, such a 'feature' would be more tolling on the CPU, as it is primarily physics calculations, not GPU ones.

I just think that this feature greatly enhances the overall feel and immersiveness of a game. It is not a deal breaking feature obviously, but one that in late 2004 should be pretty much standard nonetheless (at least for premier games like HL2).

 

[Xcellere]

Guys, don't worry, thats why he said "Also, turning off the collisions on the model improve performance."

They will react IF you choose them to.

 

[CrazyHarij]

Guys, don't worry, thats why he said "Also, turning off the collisions on the model improve performance."

They will react IF you choose them to.

Could also mean THEY chose to turn it off, and not that it's choosable in the menu

 

[TheWart]

Guys, don't worry, thats why he said "Also, turning off the collisions on the model improve performance."

They will react IF you choose them to.

That is what I thought at first but, I have a feeling, and the way it was written seem to indicate that it was a choice Valve made as developers, not something we can make in the options menu. And I think it is a bigger deal then simply clicking a button, as other games with pretty nice physics (like Max Payne 2) had this same 'defect' where the bodies would clip into one another.

 

[crabcakes66]

Could also mean THEY chose to turn it off, and not that it's choosable in the menu

Im sure that would be a simple thing to change for the modding community though.


valve is trying strike a balance between the majority of there fanbase and the people with faster hardware.

 

[DvS]

"Also, turning off the collisions on the model improve performance."

"This is done for performance. In most games, including ours, after the body dies, it will eventually fade away so that it's no longer drawn. Also, turning off the collisions on the model improve performance."

Include the whole quote please.. If the collisions are turned off, doesn't that mean that the collisions were turned ON at some point? It's very easy to see that this means that the models stop colliding some time after dying.

 

[Bicka]

The way I read this to mean is that, when the enemy dies, the player can no longer collide with the body but the body can collide with the enviroment+other dead enemies.

If you've played games like Thief3 you can see how annoying it is to become 'stuck' to a dead body because its moving underneath you. If the player can no long interact with the bodies then they are able to stack up and no longer move = less stress on the cpu.

 

[TheWart]

The way I read this to mean is that, when the enemy dies, the player can no longer collide with the body but the body can collide with the enviroment+other dead enemies.

If you've played games like Thief3 you can see how annoying it is to become 'stuck' to a dead body because its moving underneath you. If the player can no long interact with the bodies then they are able to stack up and no longer move = less stress on the cpu.

If that is what he meant, then I don't care, as I too would get annoyed by getting stuck in dead bodies....but I still think it was written in such a way to convey the sense that dead bodies do not have physical properties in the physics engine.

 

[PatPwnt]

What I hope, is that unlike farcry, if you kill a monster that is jumping at you in mid-flight and it's corpse hits you, you should take damage.

So often you'd kill a monster that was leaping at you and all of a sudden it's harmless, even though it still has the same mass and everything, it's just now 'dead' instead of 'alive', yet it does 0 damage. Stupid.

Anything with a pretty high mass that falls on you, will hurt you, IF it is physically simulated.

 

[dream431ca]

I'm more excited about shooting a barrel or a chair or anything else that seems worth shooting.

 

[alan8325]

I hope that at least very large corpses, like that of an antlion guard, will be physically simulated and hang around a while. You never know what you could use it for...helping you jump to a higher place, cover in firefight, roadblock?

 

[lans]

I think the only game which allowed realictic reactions from dead bodies was painkiller -you actually had to jump over them to pass as they came in your way. But then that was for like 3 seconds before the body turned into a puff of smoke and a green/red spirit. heh.

 

[The Dark Elf]

I think the only game which allowed realictic reactions from dead bodies was painkiller -you actually had to jump over them to pass as they came in your way. But then that was for like 3 seconds before the body turned into a puff of smoke and a green/red spirit. heh.

for a few seconds after killing something, HL1 has that. It's pretty annoying, especially in a vent with a headcrab and you can't pass for a couple of seconds. Wouldn't bother me though if the bodies could atleast be pushed out of the way.

 

[alan8325]

Yeah, thats what I tried to ask in my first question to Rick...What happens when you walk or run into an enemy while it is still 'alive.' I would think something as small as a headcrab would be pretty easy to move. He didn't really answer it though, the combine pushing you is kind of an attack rather than a response generated by the physics engine. What, for example, would happen if he was standing on the edge of a cliff and you ran into him as fast as you can?

 

[Wesisapie]

arghhh...
so this means if you go back to look at the damage you did, there'll be no dead people anywhere, no bullet casings or blood decals even (if it gets that far).
why are we going backwards people? hl1 had all these things except for the casings, which are trivial anyway.
oh, and 400 million polygons for one enemy model, what the hell is wrong with you? its not even close to correct.

 

[alan8325]

As I understand, it will be similar to HL1 where only some corpses fade, and there will be blood decals and debris that stay too. In both games though, they have to get rid of some(or most) of it to keep performance up. They don't want the computer to have to keep calculating all those entities if it doesn't have to. What i'm saying is that the corpses that affect gamplay should stay and be interactive..like the really big ones.

 

[Wesisapie]

the only one i remember fading out was gonarch.

 

[jonesey2k]

I really hope that we have the option to make the bodies "interact" with each other. Just check out this FarCry screenie....
Source + dead combine + manipulator = loadsa fun!
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/6650/FC.jpg
I shot the first guy, then his mate ran at me. Shot him in the head and he fell back and cudled up to his fallen comrade

 

[Rupertvdb]

"Also, turning off the collisions on the model improve performance."

brilliant case of a misquote do you work for a tabloid?

This is referring to the player colliding with the dead bodies not other physical objects. Like in FarCry.

 

[TheWart]

brilliant case of a misquote do you work for a tabloid?

This is referring to the player colliding with the dead bodies not other physical objects. Like in FarCry.

How can you be so sure?

 

[theotherguy]

because the question asked just about that.

 

[Alec_85]

If the collisions are turned off, doesn't that mean that the collisions were turned ON at some point?

Maybe this is taken out of context a little but I know there are some things in HL2 I'd like to bump into / collide with. No matter if they're turned ON or not :E

 

[Rupertvdb]

because the question asked just about that.

correctamundo

 

[SubKamran]

I'm almost positive things will still have a ragdoll when they're dead...that's why when he shoots the combine soldier off the ledge in the 2004 video he flops off. Plus he shoots the dead antlion with a grenade and it goes flying.

I would also think you can turn on and off the feature and that the dead bodies would stack on each other...

 

[Max_Payne]

frankly i wouldnt worry about it. lol who cares. lol

PEACE

Mike

 

[romeo0201]

Spoiler

Unless they changed something all bodies stay unless flagged by the mapper, and they react to you and to other simulated objects including other ragdolls

Patsy

 

[TheWart]

Spoiler

Unless they changed something all bodies stay unless flagged by the mapper, and they react to you and to other simulated objects including other ragdolls

Patsy

Nice to hear!

 

[SubKamran]

Is it a storyline spoiler or a unique game play spoiler? Otherwise I ain't highlighting it

 

[Alec_85]

No it's not much of a spoiler. It's about mapping. Guess he got it from the Beta? Anyway, it's Hammer talk really

Edit: Your sig is a tad too big Kamran (only 4 lines).

 

[The Terminator]

I think he just means that, when they die they will be able to be interacted with etc. but after a while ex. you walk away, then collisions are turned off and then it fades out after that. Not instantly, thatd be gay.