Pope John Paul II dead

[The Monkey]

If he's not going to heaven, then I don't know who will!

 

[KoreBolteR]

Must you try and shovel sh*t on the catholic church right now? That happaned well before john paul's time anyway, and he is the subject of the thread.

I accept that there may be some truth to that story but this is nither the time nor place to bring it up.

calm down son..

the pope is an old man just about too die.. it happens everyday, and to be honest i'd only be sad if he was my family, friends or someone i knew personally.

what has the pope done? nothing.

i will say r.i.p out of fairness tho.

 

[Tr0n]

Stern use to be catholic...I think.

So I don't see a problem with him presenting facts/opinions like that.

Edit: Bah stern beat me to it.

 

[baxter]

Having been brought up with religious hatred and intolerance I personally don't care.
The last I heard he was still alive, I wish no further suffering on him as a human being, but I will not mourn or lose any sleep over his passing away.
There was a time when the Cathotic church and Catholics stood for all I despised but over the years I have mellowed to a more tolerant understanding.
If you have ever been to a Glasgow Rangers v Celtic football match at Ibrox you will understand

 

[Dalamari]

This reminds me of when they killed the Pope in The Godfather Pt.3

 

[Nofuture]

Welll he began his carrear in the catholic church in communist poland, a VERY dangerous thing to do, at a time when many priests who dared to speak out against the goverment were beaten up or killed. When he was made pope he became a lot more critical of the goverment and was a rallying point for poles alongside solidarity, and this greatly contributed to the soviets finally loosing control in 1989.

And it was a domino affect in E.Europe a pope from behind the iron curtain gave hope to everyone that was oppressed by the communists.

I agree, he did something for Poland, I knew this. But to extend this for whole Eastern Europe, and especially for East European countries in former Soviet Union, has no sense. It's simply not true.

 

[Calanen]

There are those that believed that Pope John Paul I was murdered - good book called 'In God's Name' by Graham Yallop. Goes through in detail a lot of the Vactican corruption and so on. No one ever sued him over it either which makes u think he was right about somethings.

Main news services still atm are saying the Pope is not yet dead.

 

[Tr0n]

What if his death is one of the triggers for the coming of armageddon? :O

Like the new pope works for some group or something...

Ok I'll shut up now.

 

[kirovman]

Well everytime I come online to read the news sites I expect him to be dead, but he's clinging on each time I read. I've been expecting this for over a month, despite sucessful surgery, he's old and frail, but he hangs on. It's sad seeing old people die, it's kind of what we all have to look forward to in the future (barring exceptional circumstances).
Let him rest in peace.
To be honest he should have been allowed to retire, keeping a backseat in the Vatican or whatever and enjoyed his old age...but I guess enjoying old age doesn't take priority in Catholicolism.

On the assassination attempt on him in the 1970s; Did anyone read Red Rabbit, by Tom Clancy? It suggests the Soviets plotted to kill him (can't remember the details, but the Soviets didn't really approve of a Polish Pope). Interesting read.

As for Armageddon, don't see how that would work... unless GWB wants to avenge the Pope's death? Don't think so.
But stranger things have happened...example: the beginning of World War 1 came from an assassination in Sarajevo.

I don't think the Pope's death will leave a volatile power vacuum.

 

[baxter]

What if his death is one of the triggers for the coming of armageddon?

Maybe it would trigger world peace

 

[Calanen]

To be honest he should have been allowed to retire, keeping a backseat in the Vatican or whatever and enjoyed his old age...but I guess enjoying old age doesn't take priority in Catholicolism.

He could have at any time. He chose not to.

 

[Calanen]

On the assassination attempt on him in the 1970s; Did anyone read Red Rabbit, by Tom Clancy? It suggests the Soviets plotted to kill him (can't remember the details, but the Soviets didn't really approve of a Polish Pope). Interesting read.

I read something reasonably recently saying that the KGB contacted the Bulgarian secret services, who then farmed out the contract to a group of Turkish dissidents to kill the Pope. Which is what happened with the guy that attacked him, was it in 1979? or 1980? cant remember.

 

[Da Funkey Gibbon]

I agree, he did something for Poland, I knew this. But to extend this for whole Eastern Europe, and especially for East European countries in former Soviet Union, has no sense. It's simply not true.

Yes, It is true, the overthrow of communisum started in poland with solidarity but spread quickly into all the oppressed nations.

Excerp from a history book :

Lech Walesa, the founder of the Solidarity worker movement that ultimately toppled communism, credited John Paul with giving Poles the courage to rise up. "The pope started this chain of events that led to the end of communism," Walesa said. "Before his pontificate, the world was divided into blocs. Nobody knew how to get rid of communism. "He simply said: Don't be afraid, change the image of this land."

and

Timothy Garton Ash put it this way, "Without the Pope, no Solidarity. Without Solidarity, no Gorbachev. Without Gorbachev, no fall of Communism."

 

[KoreBolteR]

what if the new pope was a mafia boss..

haha

 

[Da Funkey Gibbon]

He could have at any time. He chose not to.

Yes it is not in the nature of the man to take a back seat, he is always driving forward, just earlier today he appointed 17 bishops despite his illness, which is pretty amazing.

 

[KoreBolteR]

Yes it is not in the nature of the man to take a back seat, he is always driving forward, just earlier today he appointed 17 bishops despite his illness, which is pretty amazing.

how is it amazin?

 

[Da Funkey Gibbon]

Because he still has the streangth to lead and carry out God's work, despite the fact that he is on his deathbed.

 

[SenorDingDong]

what has the pope done? nothing.

a hell of a lot more then you can ever hope to accomplish in your lifetime

 

[jondy]

a hell of a lot more then you can ever hope to accomplish in your lifetime

6char

 

[KoreBolteR]

a hell of a lot more then you can ever hope to accomplish in your lifetime

nothing that has changed me, influenced me or made me a fan of his..

i give my regards to him.. because hes a human being, but im not going to be sad when he passes over.

ok then Senor, you tell me.. what makes him superior than us? hes just another human being? another old man. that i dont personally know.

Because he still has the streangth to lead and carry out God's work, despite the fact that he is on his deathbed.

im no athiest, but does he 'contact' god?
its impossible.

anyhow, how do you know he chose them.. maybe his advisors did, or other senior catholics.

 

[baxter]

a hell of a lot more then you can ever hope to accomplish in your lifetime

And how did he improve your life?

 

[Da Funkey Gibbon]

How did martin luther king improve your life, how did Ghandi, how did anyone outside of your immediate circle of family and friends improve you life, I assume you live in a rich western country like me, so were never really his priority.

 

[KoreBolteR]

How did martin luther king improve your life, how did Ghandi, how did anyone outside of your immediate circle of family and friends improve you life, I assume you live in a rich western country like me, so were never really his priority.

martin luther king didnt improve my life, .. ghandi didnt improve my life. or influence or entertain me. anyway they have been dead most of my life. so i hardly know them at all.

if the likes of Tom Hanks died, then i would be sad, cos i am a fan of his. he has actually done something.

 

[Da Funkey Gibbon]

Thats my point, just because they didn't improve your life, it doesn't mean there not very great men.

 

[Tr0n]

How about stop getting so god damn hostile over someones opinion.

He was a good man, just let him go in peace.For some he did great things...to others he is just a human being on tv.

 

[KoreBolteR]

Thats my point, just because they didn't improve your life, it doesn't mean there not very great men.

maybe they are 'great men', but he wasnt that great to me. therefor, i will not mourn this mans death.

like i said before, im not an athiest. nor do i believe in any religion. i believe there is an afterlife, where you meet your passed over relatives. thats it.

there might be 'some' sort of god...(id like to believe there is one), but wheres the proof?

 

[Da Funkey Gibbon]

Fair enough I suppose.

 

[KoreBolteR]

Fair enough I suppose.

i do respect him tho..

as i would respect any other good human being.

EDIT for Tr0n: LOL. :cheers:

 

[Tr0n]

i do respect him tho..

as i would respect any other good human being.

That brings a tear to my eye. ;(



Not really.

 

[baxter]

I had a great reply there but you beat me to it.

He was a good man, just let him go in peace.For some he did great things...to others he is just a human being on tv.

Agreed totally.

 

[kirovman]

martin luther king didnt improve my life, .. ghandi didnt improve my life. or influence or entertain me. anyway they have been dead most of my life. so i hardly know them at all.

if the likes of Tom Hanks died, then i would be sad, cos i am a fan of his. he has actually done something.

MLK improved a lot of black people's lives due to bringing realisation to the minorities rights.

Ghandi brought independence to India from the British, using Non-violent protests. He was assassinated in the end (can't remember how).
Being British, you can't say Ghandi had no affect on your life. He lead to Indian independence from Britain.

Don't forget the lessons these kind of people brought.

(Being white, it's easy to assume that we have only had our rights decreased by these characters - but with a bit of empathy you will realise these people helped bring equal rights to our societies). They have proved that 'whites' don't automatically deserve to be the heads of a world empire - which is what Hitler wanted BTW.

If you want to succeed in modern capitalist life, you will need to understand that a bit of empathy goes a long way. The notion of 'Me' before anyone else will make people feel a lot less about you...hence you may forfeit that promotion you always wanted?

As for the Pope I don't think he's brought as much good as these characters in history, but he has certainly brought a lot of faith to Catholics, particularly during Cold War years. I get a bit of a feeling that he seems a 'holier than thou' character though (as would be expected from the church).
Only my feeling though. I feel the same a bit about the Dalai Lama (worth a new thread, maybes).

 

[Da Funkey Gibbon]

I get a bit of a feeling that he seems a 'holier than thou' character though (as would be expected from the church).

Well let's face it, he is

When you hold such a high and traditional posision as pope, it's very hard to get away from that really, he did a much better job than any previous popes at being humble and getting his hands dirty.

 

[KoreBolteR]

MLK improved a lot of black people's lives due to bringing realisation to the minorities rights.

Ghandi brought independence to India from the British, using Non-violent protests. He was assassinated in the end (can't remember how).
Being British, you can't say Ghandi had no affect on your life. He lead to Indian independence from Britain.

Don't forget the lessons these kind of people brought.

(Being white, it's easy to assume that we have only had our rights decreased by these characters - but with a bit of empathy you will realise these people helped bring equal rights to our societies). They have proved that 'whites' don't automatically deserve to be the heads of a world empire - which is what Hitler wanted BTW.

If you want to succeed in modern capitalist life, you will need to understand that a bit of empathy goes a long way. The notion of 'Me' before anyone else will make people feel a lot less about you...hence you may forfeit that promotion you always wanted?

As for the Pope I don't think he's brought as much good as these characters in history, but he has certainly brought a lot of faith to Catholics, particularly during Cold War years. I get a bit of a feeling that he seems a 'holier than thou' character though (as would be expected from the church).
Only my feeling though. I feel the same a bit about the Dalai Lama (worth a new thread, maybes).

it didnt change my life as i was born after the change.lol

i admit, people like ken bigley who are killed by heartless terrorists etc.. i do feel sorry for. .

and where did i say i thought i was more important than anyone else?
i specifically said that i wud only mourn if a person from my family or a friend or someone i personally knew died. or even people who i am a fan of.

but the pope is just another person to me.. im only going to respect him, not mourn for his passing over.

 

[Absinthe]

I've just come back from watching CNN. This is still unconfirmed.

/useless comment

 

[baxter]

Don't forget the lessons these kind of people brought.

There is no doubt that these people had a massive impact on the world community.

The question I have asked and remains unanswered is how have these people improved your life? Not indirectly, but directly.

Great statesmen come and go but can anybody on this forum state that these people have any direct bearing our lives.

The Pope is and will remain a figurehead of the Catholic Church, this religion or his position has no bearing on my everyday values whatsoever.
I cannot think of a single religious icon that has directly altered my way of thinking or behaviour. The Pope is not one either.
I have no desire to mourn his passing and feel it is hypocritical of those who suddenly, through media hype feel some great religious calling to do so.

 

[Da Funkey Gibbon]

It's not really hypcritical to mourn a man who great deeds are suddenly brought to attention, even if you were only dimly aware of him before, respectful I would call it.

 

[StardogChampion]

I'm not one for catholics, but anyone dying isn't so great.

Nothing on google news says he's dead yet. By tomorrow he probably will be.

 

[KoreBolteR]

The Pope is and will remain a figurehead of the Catholic Church, this religion or his position has no bearing on my everyday values whatsoever.
I cannot think of a single religious icon that has directly altered my way of thinking or behaviour. The Pope is not one either.
I have no desire to mourn his passing and feel it is hypocritical of those who suddenly, through media hype feel some great religious calling to do so.

i agree. there are too many religions in this world.

 

[Tr0n]

I give it 3 days at the max before he passes away.

Thats being optimistic tho...something I ain't often.

 

[PvtRyan]

Can't really say I give a flying ****.