Pope John Paul II dead

[No Limit]

aids in africa is mostly caused by mal-nutrition ...HIV is caused through sex ..a simple condom would prevent aids ...there are 117 million catholics in africa ..the pope COULD have for the sake humanity said "use a freakin condom"

If you are upset at condoms not being permitted in the Catholic religion (as I am) you need to blame the Catholic religion, not the pope who is there to teach and spread, not change, that religion. You will be disappointed if you expect the next pope to change the church's position on this. It is also silly to think people in Africa don't use condoms because the pope says not to use it, they don't use it because of a lack of education. South America has a larger catholic population than Africa (as I recall) and their AIDS problem isn't nearly as severe.

What I love about the catholic relgion is it teaches you to look at everything with an open mind. I believe in Jesus eventhough I disagree with a lot of the teachings for lots of reasons, in the church I am still considered a catholic. The pope has always said what the bible says, it is your choice if you want to disagree with it, it is his job to agree with it.

RIP Karol Józef Wojtyla (Jan Pawel II)
Jezu, ufam tobie.

 

[Locust]

The Pope viewed sex as an act that was sacred between a man and his wife and not for the purpose of self pleasure. If a guy wanted to have sex with a condom, he might as well just go masturbate cause it is accomplishing the same thing. When there is no birth control, it gives life a chance, which is what the Pope saw the purpose of sex as. Frankly I agree with him and think that we should exercise a little self control. If you can't have sex the normal way, don't have it.

 

[Absinthe]

I think that anybody who views sex as nothing more than the method for procreation is terribly narrow-minded.

Fact: People are still going to have sex for fun or deep personal feelings for their partner. From here on out, this is not going to change.

 

[gh0st]

No Limit, find me a source that says the catholic church, more specifically, forbade the use of contraceptives. From what I know, they were looked down upon but never "outlawed" as you seem to make it. If his moral rigor is too much for you then I cant blame you, but dont misquote him. I agree with you connors.

 

[OCybrManO]

The pope has always said what the bible says, it is your choice if you want to disagree with it, it is his job to agree with it.

No religion in history, including Christianity, has remained unchanged throughout its entire duration. All religions develop over time. Christianity today (including all forms of modern Catholicism) is not the Christianity from the original version of the Bible. Judaism today is not like the oldest form of what we refer to as Judaism (when the indigenous religion of the Israelites turned into a monotheistic religion rather than henotheism). Modern Zoroastrianism (or what is left of it, since you have to be born into it) is not the same as the original form of Zoroastrianism. Modern Buddhism is not the Buddhism taught by Siddhartha Gautama. I think you get the picture. When society changes significantly the religions either adapt (usually somewhat delayed) or they lose popularity. If they have sacred texts they get retranslated or reinterpreted so that they fit the new standards of society (this is easily visible in the many versions of the Bible, some of which completely omit entire books that disagree with their views or even add new writings). If some people remain stubborn they break off into their own branch of that religion... but it still develops albeit slower or in a different direction... if not, it disappears with the death of its followers (each successive generation of children will start to have a net loss of followers from conversion to a more modern form, and the rate typically increases over time). Not even the Pope followed the same teachings of the orignal version of the Bible... or as close to the original as has been found, if we're talking about the Old Testament.

 

[Pogrom]

No Limit, find me a source that says the catholic church, more specifically, forbade the use of contraceptives. From what I know, they were looked down upon but never "outlawed" as you seem to make it. If his moral rigor is too much for you then I cant blame you, but dont misquote him. I agree with you connors.

Done

The Catholic church's official position on the issue is (summarised):

Contraception = bad
Condoms = bad

Only moral forms of stopping pregnancy:

Abstinence
Rhythm method
Natural Family Planning (periodic abstinence)

 

[KoreBolteR]

korebolter - someone gave u a leaflet. how aweful for you.
oh and the reason they do RE is so people understand other religions which in the end should lead to less arguments and misunderstandings etc. like RE lessons ever bothered you?! u sat next to me and we didnt do any work.

kirovman, what exactly is your problem with born again christians?

well one leaflet i would forget about it.. but when you see loads of religious people trying to pin youngsters up, it sickents me...

trying to force a religion on kids.. and yes litlseshortarse.. its Wrong that they force teenagers to learn about religion.. especially when its compulsory..

what about the teens who dont believe in all that religios stuff? should they sit in class and be forced to learn, with the teacher forcing them to do thier homework.. even when that subject is of no interest whatsoever to that person? i dont think so. if your religious or intrested in religion, choose to learn it i say. not be forced. its disgraceful...

 

[kirovman]

well one leaflet i would forget about it.. but when you see loads of religious people trying to pin youngsters up, it sickents me...

trying to force a religion on kids.. and yes litlseshortarse.. its Wrong that they force teenagers to learn about religion.. especially when its compulsory..

what about the teens who dont believe in all that religios stuff? should they sit in class and be forced to learn, with the teacher forcing them to do thier homework.. even when that subject is of no interest whatsoever to that person? i dont think so. if your religious or intrested in religion, choose to learn it i say. not be forced. its disgraceful...

You could say the same about English and Maths maybe

kirovman, what exactly is your problem with born again christians?

As for me, no I don't have a problem with born again Christians...I just have a problem with those who forcefeed their beliefs, as if they are somehow right and you are wrong, with a brand of naivety that would embarrass a newborn child. Telling you to repent now or burn forever, etc.
That goes for religion, politics or discussing your taste of music.

You are welcome to be a born again Christian, I will be happy for you, just don't presume everyone wants to become born again or whatever. I know some really nice people who are Christians, of many varieties, because they respect other people's religious beliefs.

 

[CptStern]

Done

The Catholic church's official position on the issue is (summarised):

Contraception = bad
Condoms = bad

Only moral forms of stopping pregnancy:

Abstinence
Rhythm method
Natural Family Planning (periodic abstinence)

you forgot the "hope and pray" method

 

[KoreBolteR]

You could say the same about English and Maths maybe .

...lol

maths and english are basic skills to learn... then it progresses. Religious Education is what people around the world believe and its pointless.
you may need maths and english in your future job! but how am i going to need RE? i dont want to become a christian/catholic or priest,.. so why should i learn something thats wasting my time, when i could be learning something useful.
.[/QUOTE]

 

[CptStern]

religious education also teaches you about philosophy, art, and the condition of man ..as long as it takes an outsiders view and doesnt push faith (one religion etc), I see no problem with it. Took a course back in highschool called "man in society: world religions" I enjoyed it even though I'm a rabid non-believer

 

[KoreBolteR]

religious education also teaches you about philosophy, art, and the condition of man ..as long as it takes an outsiders view and doesnt push faith (one religion etc), I see no problem with it. Took a course back in highschool called "man in society: world religions" I enjoyed it even though I'm a rabid non-believer

yeah but in the UK we have 3 years of this (from when were 11-14... then in year 10(age 14-15) we can choose out own subjects (except the ones thats compulsory) .. the ones that are compulsory in the UK are :

Maths, Enlgish, Science, physical education fitness, and ..Religious Education.. :S.

i need the math skills, the grammar, the fitness, but not the religious bs, thank you very much. fair enough if i was religious, but im not..

 

[CptStern]

do you only study one religion in religious studies?

 

[KoreBolteR]

do you only study one religion in religious studies?

all of them, but in great detail.
i had a grade "c", but that wasnt because i was intrested.. that was because i wanted the extra exam on my CV (to look better for jobs) lol :upstare:

 

[CptStern]

what are you complaining about? it's not like they're pushing one faith on you. I find that most people are ignorant of other religions, I'd have welcomed this sort of courses as opposed to the catholic religious studies I had to partake in. Understanding religion gives you an understanding of the condition of man. Like it or not religion is one of the major driving forces in all of human history. The more you know ....

 

[KoreBolteR]

what are you complaining about? it's not like they're pushing one faith on you. I find that most people are ignorant of other religions, I'd have welcomed this sort of courses as opposed to the catholic religious studies I had to partake in. Understanding religion gives you an understanding of the condition of man. Like it or not religion is one of the major driving forces in all of human history. The more you know ....

i know what your gettin at.. but i just have no interest whatsoever.. to me its people believing in fairytale stories and religion causes anger and hatred. one religion wouldnt be so bad... i suppose..

but i already had 3 years of my life in skool where i learnt that, then after those 3 years i have the right to drop that subject along with many others.. it should not be compulsory.

 

[CptStern]

3 years? I took it for 12 years ...religion may be be a bore, but once you get into theology it becomes far more interesting. Just look at it as an early philosophy class ..you cant study philosophy without mentioning religion

 

[baxter]

Quote:
Originally Posted by litleshortarse
oh and same sex marriage, if your gay, u clearly arent a christian,

says who? the United chruch allows same sex marriage ..they're christian

You actually addressed this point really well but for some reason a comment regarding Christians not being allowed to be gay as really annoyed me. It smacks of intolerance.
Religion, in my opinion has no place in schools, any more than astronomy.
If people feel the calling to learn any religion ok, but should that decision not be based on a well informed and well educated decision.
I agree knowledge is power but compulsory RE at schools, maybe ignorance is bliss

 

[litleshortarse]

baxter, basically. christians + gay dont go together in my opinion. its believed that god has a will for people, being gay is nto part of it, marrying ppl of the other gender is, so christians who think gods will for them is to be gay, are wrong, because thats against his will for them!!! its quite simple really

bolter ur just being ridiculous,they teach RE so you'll understand other religions more which should lead to less trouble due to lack of understanding with other cultures and religions etc. its not as if they tried to force u into anything, and it was only 1 hour a week, i was in your class. and considering you had no interest in it, and from thigns you've said to me before now, you have no understanding of otehr religions whatsoever, what on earth are you doing trying to form decent arguments abotu it?!

cptsterm, its nto up to the pope to change the catholic religion and allow condoms. masterbation generally is off the limits as far as i know.

the abortion thing is all related to the condom thign, and all life beign sacred, ive already explained why it wasnt up to him, your argument "yes it is" isnt exactly a good one....

well, i dont agree with the united church then. ive never actually heard of it...

and the reason same sex marriage is mocking the religion. thats quite simple. marriage is all about the union between a man and a woman before god etc. thats the entire point of it, to use this religions tradition, and join 2 men before god, or 2 women, when the religion doesnt even agree with it, just doesnt make sense really.

absinthe: i agree with you, but the catholic religion doesnt.




as of now, im not posting again, its getting a little bti repetative, some of the comments (mostly from korebolter in this thread and on msn) show blatent lack of knowledge about christanity at all, so why argue? research it instead perhaps.
and there are so many points being brought upwe'll be here forever, and im getting bored of it now.
hope i've been at least a little bit informative, appologise to anyone ive offended.
litleshortarse.

 

[baxter]

baxter, basically. christians + gay dont go together in my opinion. its believed that god has a will for people, being gay is nto part of it, marrying ppl of the other gender is, so christians who think gods will for them is to be gay, are wrong, because thats against his will for them!!! its quite simple really

Oh well that clears that up and theres me being silly thinking it was a case of intolerance.

 

[GhostFox]

christians + gay dont go together in my opinion.

The US Anglican church has an openly gay Bishop, so your opinion is quickly becoming outdated. Also, the bible is full of positive references to homosexual acts, along with the condemnations. Clearly the authors had differing opinions.

You are free to be anti-gay. That is your right. Just don't try to justify your actions as the "christian" thing to do. That is no more right then Islamic extremists who blow up a bus full of Jewish kids defending it as the "muslim" thing to do.

 

[litleshortarse]

disagreeing with gay marriage,and blowing children up, quite different things.

 

[baxter]

Your posting have disagreed with gays and christianity not gay marriages.
As a reborn Christian could you please clarify your position on Christianity and gays so that somebody like myself , who clearly isn't as enlightened as you can understand why I shouldn't see your stance as intolerant

 

[litleshortarse]

I've already stated my opinion on christianity and homosexuality :/

 

[litleshortarse]

homosexuality is a sin. claiming to be a christian whilst living your life in sin, and not changing your ways or repenting, basically your not gonna get into heaven.
gay marriage - why would you want to get married before god, to someone of the same sex, when the relationship is a sin? that's just pointless.

Romans 1:24-28 (ESV)
Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, [25] because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
[26] For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; [27] and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
[28] And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.

 

[Tr0n]

Is love not love?

 

[baxter]

It's just as well they teach RE at school then?
It's nice to know my children will be taught good Christian values.
End of conversation

 

[Absinthe]

homosexuality is a sin. claiming to be a christian whilst living your life in sin, and not changing your ways or repenting, basically your not gonna get into heaven.

Because it's just so easy to snap your fingers and pray away the gay.

 

[litleshortarse]

Is love not love?

I dont understand?

Because it's just so easy to snap your fingers and pray away the gay.

Who said anything about it being easy?

 

[Tr0n]

Just because a man loves another man or women loves another woman what right is it to declare it sin when god says to love and not hate?

 

[litleshortarse]

well god says to love everybody, but it doesnt mean in the same sense as 2 lovers getting into a relationship and getting married...

 

[Tr0n]

Oh for christ sake (no pun intended) then you don't know what love is.

Which is why I said..."is love not love?".Now I know it doesn't mean kiss and all that good stuff with everybody, but the emotion and response is the same.

It is not right to tell someone they can't love another because of different genders.

Welcome to the real world boy.

 

[Absinthe]

Who said anything about it being easy?

How about impossible?

 

[litleshortarse]

Tr0n, you dont see the difference between the way somebody loves a family member or a close friend, and the way they love their partner?

Absinthe, I really don't see how it could be impossible?!

 

[Absinthe]

Absinthe, I really don't see how it could be impossible?!

Here's a test for you. Go out and turn gay. Then have sex with a male and enjoy it. Then go back to being straight.

 

[Tr0n]

Tr0n, you dont see the difference between the way somebody loves a family member or a close friend, and the way they love their partner?

Absinthe, I really don't see how it could be impossible?!

Of course...but the emotion behind it is the same.

So again whose right is it to tell someone they can't love another?Heck I have a gay cousin, but I also have a grandma thats one of the few christians now'n days that truely follows what jesus teaches.Yet she still loves him even tho he is gay and she hasn't got mad at him for it.Wish all christians was like that instead of being ignorant prejudice dumbasses.

 

[Ikerous]

"Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." ~Romans 13:10

In my opinion, everything we need to know about being Christian is summed up in that one verse.

 

[litleshortarse]

Tr0n, i didnt say anything about not loving people who are gay,im just saying its not the way to get into heaven. its not god's plan for us.

and even if it is impossible to become instantly straight, it is possible with time. sexuality is adaptive.

 

[Absinthe]

and even if it is impossible to become instantly straight, it is possible with time. sexuality is adaptive.

Try it. Go ahead.

Sorry, but it's not adaptive. You can repress your urges till kindom come, but you will still be a homosexual at the end of the day.

 

[Ikerous]

Tr0n, i didnt say anything about not loving people who are gay,im just saying its not the way to get into heaven. its not god's plan for us.

I didn't mention to verse in reference to the attitude towards homosexuals, but in reference to their own attitude.

The verse says that if you're doing something for the sake of love, then it isn't a sin... therefore being homosexual isn't sinful (Of course thats merely my stance on the bible, and what do i know? )

And sexuality is adaptive? o.o