Religion And Common sense

[Lil' Timmy]

my reality lags a bit.. and the shadows look weird. i need new drivers from god.

 

[mchammer75040]

Well, this will be my last post here..

I do believe I can con you into posting again...as far as your dialouge to me it just seems like twisting words to your liking.

Remember, until you genuinely seek after Him, your just grasping at straws and looking for answers where they don't exist..

As soon as I can understand what it is Im seeking I'll do so .

EDIT: thanks for hi-jacking the thread coolio2man... :|

 

[Lil' Timmy]

i hi-jacked it, he was just along for the ride!

 

[Chris D]

I haven't read the rest of the views in this thread, but my personal opinion is that you're in control of your own life, your own personality, your own lifestyle. You don't need to model it on the past experiences of other people or stories.

You're the master of your own destiny. Depriving yourself of the special sexual bond that intercourse should create just because a book says it's wrong is stupid. Getting married to a woman that your parents have chosen for you, that you've never even met, but you have to marry her and stay with her for life, just because your religion tells you to, is wrong.

I live my life the way I want to live it, and the way it keeps me happiest. I wouldn't change my life for the world.

 

[Lucifer Crass]

I can't hi-jack my own thread

QProtocol just sounds better than coolio2man. But this account is better

 

[mchammer75040]

So A2597, you ever gonna reply to all those who tore your argument down or are you gonna turn the other check so you dont have to question your religion? I think its really funny when you sit here and talk about how much you have "researched" laugh evolution and how its completely wrong, then people who actually know what they are talkin about (Lil' Timmy, PvtRyan)and did research it prove your arguments against evolution wrong! So come on I wanna see your rebuttle. :rolling:
EDIT: Im not letting this thread go off this page intil I get one A2597.

 

[Lucifer Crass]

I wouldnt be making this kind of thread if religious people would try to find artifcats that back up the bible. But they dont because none of it ever happend. :/

On a side note, those of you that pray think they are talking to God, yet if God talks back to someone you call him insane. You people are so stupid.

 

[mchammer75040]

I wouldnt be making this kind of thread if religious people would try to find artifcats that back up the bible. But they dont because none of it ever happend. :/

Well actually they do look for artifacts in such, but they like to twist things in their favor most of the time.

On a side note, those of you that pray think they are talking to God, yet if God talks back to someone you call him insane. You people are so stupid.

lol yea Ive always found that funny, maybe deep down they know the truth :|.

 

[Non-Sequitur]

lol yea Ive always found that funny, maybe deep down they know the truth :|.

No... I think most them have themselves fooled thoroughly.

It's such an egotistical view of the universe... to think that a God created it specifically for us, and created us in his image. We're not that f*cking special. We have as much right to be here as a fungus growing between someone's toes. I'm happier knowing our true place in the universe... which is as a pile of cosmic garbage.

 

[Pseudonym_]

I wouldnt be making this kind of thread if religious people would try to find artifcats that back up the bible. But they dont because none of it ever happend. :/

You couldn't be more wrong. King David, for example, was long thought to be a mythical figure by historians until Biblical archeologists proved he was an actual historical figure.

Biblical archeologists are out there every day making discoveries relevant to the stories of the Bible.

 

[Non-Sequitur]

You couldn't be more wrong. King David, for example, was long thought to be a mythical figure by historians until Biblical archeologists proved he was an actual historical figure.

Biblical archeologists are out there every day making discoveries relevant to the stories of the Bible.

How about biblical mathematicians? You might need a few of those...

http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/math.html

 

[LoneDeranger]

Oh, there are plenty of historial artifacts showing that people mentioned in the Bible actually existed. Yet, there are none showing they had magical powers, were the son of God, etc.

 

[Pseudonym_]

A geocities site........


LoneDeranger, what kind of historical artifacts would prove that, exactly?

 

[Non-Sequitur]

A geocities site........

Yes, it is funny that a geocities site can explain errors in what is supposed to be a HOLY DOCUMENT. Hilarious in fact.

And it is also funny that you can in one minute say that science can't explain anything, that it is rooted in the physical world... yet when science/archaeology brings something up that might support the bible... WOW!

 

[Pseudonym_]

Non-Sequitur, whatever small inaccuracies(which I'm sure there were some) can be found in ancient Hebrew math when compared to our own understanding of math has nothing to do with God. That site doesn't prove anything.

 

[LoneDeranger]

LoneDeranger, what kind of historical artifacts would prove that, exactly?

Exactly, there are none.

The point I'm trying to make is that the Bible is based on true stories, exagerrated for entertainment or profit. I'm pretty sure Jesus existed. He was probably some sort of a spiritual guru/magician; not unlike an ancient version of David Blane.

 

[Lil' Timmy]

.. kinda bored, but i will say anyone interestd in biblical archaeology should read the bible unearthed: archaeology's new vision of ancient israel and the origin of its sacred texts by finkelstein and silberman. the contention that there is abundant evidence for the relation of old testament stories to actual history is.. well in a word, outdated. i'm sleepy

 

[Non-Sequitur]

Non-Sequitur, whatever small inaccuracies(which I'm sure there were some) can be found in ancient Hebrew math when compared to our own understanding of math has nothing to do with God. That site doesn't prove anything.

Well, some of the errors were IN SIMPLE COUNTING. If they couldn't get that right, what's the chances of all of the farfetched stuff being credible?

 

[Pseudonym_]

Exactly, there are none.

Exactly.

The point I'm trying to make is that the Bible is based on true stories, exagerrated for entertainment or profit. I'm pretty sure Jesus existed. He was probably some sort of a spiritual guru/magician; not unlike an ancient version of David Blane.

Conjecture.


EDIT: I'm getting sucked into this again. :sniper:

I refuse to spend 3 hours of yet another night trying to reason with a brick wall.

 

[LoneDeranger]

Conjecture.

Yes, just like most of everything else related to the discussion of WHAT HAPPENED 2000 YEARS AGO. Let's face it, most of the evidence was destroyed, it's not like one day we are going to find Jesus' DNA one day or something.

So it's just your opinion vs. mine.

 

[Pseudonym_]

No, it isn't your opinion v mine. My beliefs are not based on archeological evidence or scripture, they are based on experience. Therefore, my belifes are more than conjecture to me, because they are based on tangible experiences rather than clumsy guesswork.

But I can't offer that to you. And I never tried. I have not tried to convince anyone of anything, just the opposite. I've stated that I don't believe this to even be possible. All I'm doing is trying to get the point across that the same experiences that have led me to the truth are available to all if you just seek them, as God promised.


You guys have plenty of reasonable arguments. Well, for the most part you do. Non-sequitur's arguments are more that a God doesn't fit into his depressing, angry, hopeless view of reality. But You simply wont find the truth in science or human reasoning. You have to seek it elsewhere, thats all I've been trying to say this whole time.

 

[crabcakes66]

No, it isn't your opinion v mine. My beliefs are not based on archeological evidence or scripture, they are based on experience. Therefore, my belifes are more than conjecture to me, because they are based on tangible experiences rather than clumsy guesswork.

...Its still nothing but an opinion. Even if you cant see that. The same agruement can be said for just about anything.

Even though its more than an opinion to you.....that doesnt change anything.

 

[Pseudonym_]

...Its still nothing but an opinion. Even if you cant see that. The same agruement can be said for just about anything.

No. It's opinion in your view because there is no proof I can offer you. but to me there is proof beyond any doubt. It's as if I walked into a house on top of a hill, then came back down and told you about it. I have no proof the house is there, so you don't believe me. So I tell you to make the climb and see the house for yourself, but for whatever reason you don't try. My knowing that the house is there will never be more than opinion in your eyes, even though I have proof. My experience there is proof. But it's a personal proof.

Thats exactly what is happening here.

 

[LoneDeranger]

Well actually I was just arguing against religion as stated in the Bible.

If you read some of my other threads you know that I think there is a God (or some other intelligent being) guiding all people (or maybe just me) through life. I haven't settled on a single theory yet, so I'm not going to post anything here right now.

 

[Non-Sequitur]

No, it isn't your opinion v mine. My beliefs are not based on archeological evidence or scripture, they are based on experience. Therefore, my belifes are more than conjecture to me, because they are based on tangible experiences rather than clumsy guesswork.

But I can't offer that to you. And I never tried. I have not tried to convince anyone of anything, just the opposite. I've stated that I don't believe this to even be possible. All I'm doing is trying to get the point across that the same experiences that have led me to the truth are available to all if you just seek them, as God promised.

You guys have plenty of reasonable arguments. Well, for the most part you do. Non-sequitur's arguments are more that a God doesn't fit into his depressing, angry, hopeless view of reality. But You simply wont find the truth in science or human reasoning. You have to seek it elsewhere, thats all I've been trying to say this whole time.

What was your experience that proved conclusively that there is a God?

My view of reality is neither hopeless nor angry. I hold my life more sacred than you do as it wasn't handed to me by a spooky man in the sky. I came about through absolute chance. Countless atoms bouncing around for an eternity eventually ended in what is MY LIFE. I will cherish what I have. I don't need to believe a 2000 year old, self-contradictory, error filled book to tell me how to live my life. I prefer to know the truth... and as you yourself say, humans spread misinformation and the only place I've ever heard about God is from HUMANS. I will keep an open mind while you have made sure that you won't listen to anything other than "there is a creator".

Anyway, you can end this by telling us what proved there is a God for you. Perhaps it will do the same for us?

 

[mchammer75040]

BWHAHAHAH I told you Pseudonym_, you would post here again

 

[Pseudonym_]

Even though its more than an opinion to you.....that doesnt change anything.

I am not trying to change anything. I've said this so many times it's beginning to get irritating.

I know that my personal proof that the house is there is not enough to convince anyone else(this is by design). All I've been trying to say is that the house is there for you to check out yourself, and attain personal proof for yourself. It's just that you people don't try. You don't take the time to walk up the hill.

Well actually I was just arguing against religion as stated in the Bible.

:E Well surly you realize this is a waste for both parties. No one can convince anyone that the Bible is either true or ralse. There is no way. I would never try to convince you that the Bible is 100% true. I myself don't believe it to be flawless.


EDIT: Non-sequitur, all you have been tellign me is how terrible the world is, citing that natural disaster, sickness, greed, child rape, you describe this planet as a scary, dead-end place that you find scary and cruel, then your going to turn around and tell me that your view sin't depressing and sad?

Well ok.

 

[Non-Sequitur]

Well surly you realize this is a waste for both parties. No one can convince anyone that the Bible is either true or ralse. There is no way. I would never try to convince you that the Bible is 100% true. I myself don't believe it to be flawless.

I think it should be flawless for someone to live their life by it. There should be no doubt in anyone's mind if they're going to take anything it says seriously. You can't make farfetched claims that no one can prove, and then in the same book make errors that bring down it's authenticity even further...

You say god is not the originator of confusion... Then why doesn't he fix his book?

 

[LoneDeranger]

Yes, thats what I wanted to hear. I'm glad you based your beliefs on personal experience rather than some ancient writings, education, or whatever else.

 

[Pseudonym_]

I think it should be flawless for someone to live their life by it

When I said it may not be flawless, I was talking about the possibilities of slihgt alteration by the early church, general mistranslations, occasional stories which are mythological rather than historical, all of these things. The core teahcings are certainly moral, beneficial, and it is a very good book to live ones life by.

 

[Non-Sequitur]

EDIT: Non-sequitur, all you have been tellign me is how terrible the world is, citing that natural disaster, sickness, greed, child rape, you describe this planet as a scary, dead-end place that you find scary and cruel, then your going to turn around and tell me that your view sin't depressing and sad?

Well ok.

So in your perfect world with God, those things don't exist? That's the only way I guess you could explain them away... God would certainly be responsible for them by making those things possible in HIS universe.

In my universe, the good things balance out the bad. For every 50,000 impoverished people that get crushed in an Earthquake in Iran, there are new lives to take their place. Human life goes on as it will until something irreversible happens.

My universe is a beautiful place of enormous scale, and as amazing as our Earth is, I'm disappointed that the only way I'll see another world is through a telescope... But, seeing SOMETHING is better than nothing. I will make the best of it...

Edit: And how dare you say there is anything wrong with my view of the universe... When yours is self-centered on humans. How can you even begin to think that in a place that spans 400 billion galaxies, we must be the most important part of it? That it was put here for us... that's disgustingly egotistical from my point of view.

 

[Pseudonym_]

So in your perfect world with God, those things don't exist?

 

[Non-Sequitur]

You'll have to do better than that...

 

[mchammer75040]

Oh come on question begging is just ridculous...err A2597 Im still waiting for that reply...ugh nevermind im going to bed nite nite everyone

 

[Pseudonym_]

Your not even being reasonable anymore. I never said anything like we humans are the most important thing in the universe, the world is void of natural distasters, human beings don't commit atricious acts, the world is perfect, or any other such nonesense. You simply painted a very dreary picture of reality with all the negativity about the world in your previous posts, and I was taking notice of it and comenting on it.


Your not here to debate in a reasonable mannor, you are here to undermine the beliefs of others. That is clear.

 

[Lucifer Crass]

I cannot see myself commiting to a church that uses little boys for sex objects because God said you cant have sex. What a bunch of ****ing bullshit. How can having sex be a sin? It feels good, its as natural as eating or pooping. Humans where made to fuk, we have penises and Vaginas and useing them is evil? That is so rediculious that i am having a hard time typing. Its just amazing. HOW MUCH POT WOULD I HAVE TO SMOKE TO MAKE SENSE OF THAT? They musta been on some hard shit when they wrote that crap. The only thing that could change my mind is if God took me by the neck held me over a lava pit and said, Thats your house forever if you fuk that bitch.

 

[Non-Sequitur]

Your not here to debate in a reasonable, you are here to undermine the beliefs of others. That is clear.

You're undermining mine... you make it seem as though anyone who doesn't believe in God didn't try at all... which I did. I dedicated a good 15 years of my life to believing and trying to find god. In the end, it came down to the fact that I just couldn't convince myself. You make it sound like it is so "easy" to find God and he didn't make it "hard" at all... How am I supposed to feel when all signs point to there not being a god? Am I blind?

All you have to do is tell us 2 things to understand your argument, which I don't.
1. Where did you find God? What proved FOR YOU without a doubt that there is a God?
2. Why it would be impossible for the universe to come about without a creator?

That is all you need to answer... You act as though you know for certain that the universe is a product of intelligent design, yet you can't answer either of these questions...

 

[Non-Sequitur]

I cannot see myself commiting to a church that uses little boys for sex objects because God said you cant have sex. What a bunch of ****ing bullshit. How can having sex be a sin? It feels good, its as natural as eating or pooping. Humans where made to fuk, we have penises and Vaginas and useing them is evil? That is so rediculious that i am having a hard time typing. Its just amazing. HOW MUCH POT WOULD I HAVE TO SMOKE TO MAKE SENSE OF THAT? They musta been on some hard shit when they wrote that crap. The only thing that could change my mind is if God took me by the neck held me over a lava pit and said, Thats your house forever if you fuk that bitch.

Damn.... straight.

 

[A2597]

back again. I have this thing called "Life" and another called"Job" that prevents me from sitting here 24/7, sorry.

Unfortuneatally, there is no way I can change the mind of a person like pvtRyan, he's hard bent on his belief in evolution. Conversly, there is no way he could change my mind. THe "problem" with the whole evolution/creationism thing is, the same evidence is used to support both sides of the argument. You look at rock layers and say millions of years of deposits. I look at them and say massive flood, quickly happened. You look at a few hundered different speicies, arrange them anywhich way and see "evolution" in progress. I see a few hundered simular, but ultimately different species.

The scientific proof for God can be seen everywhere, but you have to be open to accept it. Unfotunatally, some people are to close minded to do so. It saddens me that it's so, but in the end, it is your choice, I can't make you believe. no matter how many tales of miricles, answered prayers, or whatnot would ever change your mind. I KNOW God exist because I've seen him work in my life, and in the lives of others. I've seen mericles happen, witnessed His power, and more then anything, felt his presence.

You have to open your mind to the possibility that we WERE created, and suddenly it becomes utterly clear. If you want to know there is a God, I mean REALLY want to know, just ask him to show his hand, to give you some proof of his existance. Then start watching for it. No I'm not going to say he will suddenly appear in your room that moment, but suddenly things just start to happen that seem to perfect. I've seen it happen to people, and it becomes all to clear that SOMETHING made that happen. Running late and missing a major explosion/accident, things like that. Some would say luck, but luck, by nature, is random. When it happens again, and again, and again...well...it just seems more and more likely that something else is moving things.

So, your call. Follow the religion of evolution, or believe in God. Your choice, and I can't change that.

BTW, small question for pvtRyan. where DID you get that information about Christianity being a downer/no sex/breeding illiteracy? I'm quite curious, as I myself am Christain and I REALLY found that amusing. Utterly FALSE on all accounts, but amusing. I myself can't wait to get married and have some kids.

Anyhoo, of to play some FarCry...or UT2k3...haven't decided.

if anyone has some specific questions, mind PMing me? I really lack the time to go through this thread and keep replying to everything.

 

[A2597]

and let me post this again, because I'm getting sick of seeing this in the thread.

NO WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY YOU CAN NOT HAVE SEX!!!

SHEESH, most pasters have ALOT of kids, come to think of it, I don't know any married christains that DON"T have kids. And the only way I know of to make kids is to HAVE SEX.