Religion:The stupidest thing invented by mankind?

[Raziaar]

Maybe in a few hundred or thousand years when the majority of the world isn't religious... things will be your way.

Or you could just start killing them all to expedite the process.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Any religion is alright - but only so long as people actually follow the rules.

If no-one follows the rules, it is not a religion, is it?

Why on Earth are you calling me a bigot, Razaair?
How can I be a bigot against my own race, religion and nationality?

Edit: That's the spirit! Kill everyone!

It is the only way to find favour with god.

 

[Raziaar]

Being a bigot doesn't just mean race, religion, or politics.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Bigot: One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

 

[Raziaar]

Bigot: One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

Exactly. Point clear.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

I'm not intolerant towards others.
Am I killing anyone?
Or forcing conversions?
Am I judging anyone?

No. I am stating my stance on religion.
I don't even judge. Non-judgement is a key part of Christian Atheism.
I'm still free to speak, right?

So please, show some tolerance to me.

 

[Tr0n]

As I said also, I don't mind religions ether... Hell I use to be a protestant christian..

Problem I do have with SOME religions is the logic/hypocritical/stupidity that they preach. It's funny, as you can see christianity is the first religion to be attacked by many people. The next one is Judaism (sometimes the first) and last but not least Islam.

Out of all the religions I have studied in the past 6/7 years of my life (I <3 theology), the abrahamic religions have been some of the most conflicting/hypocritical religions I've ever seen. Those three basically believe their god is benevolent, yet he/it/she puts an apple tree in the garden of eden when he already knows what's going to happen? That is not logic, but if their god is benevolent then he/it/she is all logic.

Note here.

Reason why I put "their" in italics is because that's the god they believe in. I always find it funny when someone says "I don't believe in god" they instantly think of christanity/islam/judaism. So some of you know, I for one believe in god, but it isn't a abrahamic god or any other religions. (Einstein even believed in a god/the source/karma/whatever as do many non-religious scientist.)

Anyways, I also find it funny how many people that practice a religion, but bearly knows its' history. So here's a link so everyone here can learn a little:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotheism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence_of_God

The history of monotheism and the belief in God. Decided that would be a good choice because many religions now'n days are monotheistic. Start reading and I really advise you to read them if you want to hold a good debate.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

I agree, god is totally fake.

The entire concept of god is inherently wrong because it makes statements (omniscience, omnipotence, etc.) which directly contradict the bible(s) and themselves.

But, as Christian Atheism shows us, god does not need to exist. We do not need to to believe in god in order to follow his laws.

 

[Tr0n]

I didn't say god/gods/the source/karma/whatever you want to call it, was fake now did I?

The belief im a god or gods or whatever is a spirtual thing and we have got to the point we don't need religion to get us there. The concept of god isn't really all that wrong ether...hell mecha we had this debate on hetairia before, remember?

Or was you there when we had it? D:

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Okay, I agree religions (other than Christian Atheism) are really fake.

God is still fake IMHO tho. :O

 

[Raziaar]

Okay, I agree religions (other than Christian Atheism) are really fake.

God is still fake IMHO tho. :O

Jesus: Mechagodzilla thinks you're a fake.

God: What the hell do I care?

Zeus: I'll impale him on my mighty lightning bolt.

Shiva: Too much information!

:|

 

[Cole]

God: I'm bored... hmm maybe its time to have a war *WWI*
God: Wow a bunch of people died, what the hell do I care?
God: I must outdue myself! *WW2*

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Are ya going to put farwards any valid criticisms, or is it just going to be more in the style of these previous few sparkling comments, Razaiar?

Biblical god cannot exist, because he is often jealous and angry.
Omnipotent, omniscient god cannot be angry.

Here is why: if he is omniscient, then he has an infinite ability to predict and cope emotionally with whatever a problem is.

If he is omnipotent, then he can deal with the source of anger before it ever happens (and he should. Delaying would be a weakness).

Thus, it is impossible for god to have genuine emotion.

 

[Raziaar]

Are ya going to put farwards any valid criticisms, or is it just going to be more in the style of these previous few sparkling comments, Razaiar?

Actually I have no desire to really argue points... since it's concerning me less and less what people think and say about my religion. I'll back out of the thread since I have nothing more to contribute to it. Keep up the good bashing.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Ok.

Don't forget to kill lots of people!

 

[bbson john]

Mechagodzilla, you are correct, but you are misleading. Even though there is the word "god" in your name, I must point out the malentendu.

What you are doing is accusing the Bible, or even Koran as well, and then you have simply drawn the conclusion - religion is actually an insane people's political movement - which is rather unacceptable. I agree that Christianity is somehow illogical. Amidst the religions in the world, how can you just point out Christianity is bad and other other religions are bad as well? All religions are politcal means is obviously an universal proposition. You have provided insufficient proof to demonstrate that this proposition is true. Christianity is only one of the three major religions in the world. You must show us Buddhism alone with some of the weighty beliefs like Hinduism are illogical in order to point out your proposition is true. If not, you can say Christianity is bad, not all religions.

 

[theotherguy]

Mechagodzilla, you are correct, but you are misleading. Even though there is the word "god" in your name, I must point out the malentendu.

What you are doing is accusing the Bible, or even Koran as well, and then you have simply drawn the conclusion - religion is actually an insane people's political movement - which is rather unacceptable. I agree that Christianity is somehow illogical. Amidst the religions in the world, how can you just point out Christianity is bad and other other religions are bad as well? All religions are politcal means is obviously an universal proposition. You have provided insufficient proof to demonstrate that this proposition is true. Christianity is only one of the three major religions in the world. You must show us Buddhism alone with some of the weighty beliefs like Hinduism are illogical in order to point out your proposition is true. If not, you can say Christianity is bad, not all religions.

all religions are inherentley illogical because they employ faith in something that cannot ever be logically proven.

 

[bbson john]

all religions are inherentley illogical because they employ faith in something that cannot ever be logically proven.

It is okay if religions are not too over-illogical. Religions are not built to be proven. It is a balm for all of us. If it can be proven, it is called fact. Religions are not necessary to be proven if you know WHY they exist.

If things can be ignored only because they cannot be proven, there won't be a subject called metaphysics, or philosophy. Evolutionism should stfu as well. And you won't be studying quantum mechanics.

 

[Absinthe]

Actually I have no desire to really argue points... since it's concerning me less and less what people think and say about my religion. I'll back out of the thread since I have nothing more to contribute to it. Keep up the good bashing.

So basically, when faced with the reality that your god is a logical mess, you just tune it out?

I really hate to accuse people of willful delusion, but that sadly seems to be the case with most religious people.

 

[Absinthe]

Evolutionism should stfu as well.

SHUT THE **** UP YOU ****ING SJWRNWJTHWSOUTYHWPSKFNCV*)UY@*A@*YU%$*@ W$ORANZOKLUIONM

JESUS ****ING CHIRST. SHUT UP NOW> ASGBLED

...****. Jesus. Just... no. Don't say ANOTHER ****ING WORD. And we'll leave it at that.

 

[bbson john]

If you study evolutionary biology well, you should know there are far too many missing links. Evolutionism is flawed.

And religions are NOT limited in God.

 

[Absinthe]

God. God ****ing damn it. You little ****ing... No. **** it. I'm far too drunk and pissed off right now to engage in anything remotely resembling discourse. Maybe later.

 

[theotherguy]

It is okay if religions are not too over-illogical. Religions are not built to be proven. It is a balm for all of us. If it can be proven, it is called fact. Religions are not necessary to be proven if you know WHY they exist.

If things can be ignored only because they cannot be proven, there won't be a subject called metaphysics, or philosophy. Evolutionism should stfu as well. And you won't be studying quantum mechanics.

The burden of truth lies on religion, philosophy and metaphysics. They must prove that their god/assertion is true before they have people running around spending millions of dollars and thousands of hours for them. It's nothing but speculation!

I can't prove that there is not a teapot orbiting the sun right now, or that there is a microscopic elephant in my ear, but if I were to beleive these things I would be perceived as an idiot. Why is religion any different?

"Evolutionism should stfu?"
what the hell? Evolution has something no religion has: EVIDENCE. Evolution has been proven to happen in countless experiments, is observable today and has mounds and mounds of genetic, biological and geological evidence backing it up.

EDIT: just because one or two things might be missing from a theory doesnt mean the theory is wrong. It only means we need to study the system and learn more. The vast majority of evolution is proven to be fact.

 

[bbson john]

The burden of truth lies on religion, philosophy and metaphysics. They must prove that their god/assertion is true before they have people running around spending millions of dollars and thousands of hours for them. It's nothing but speculation!

First, you are misleading. Not all religionists would spend millions of dollars and thousands of hours for their beliefs. People believe it within their heart, they just won't do anything to support/prove/disprove it. Second, religions is not limited in God or Gods. You are far too ignorant if you say there must be Gods in every religions. Third, beliefs are not necessary be facts since their value of existence is not restricted within that! It is fine if the religions are not too contradictory or evil. e.g., omnipotence is too contradictory, yes. But the idea of hell or heaven is acceptable.

what the hell? Evolution has something no religion has: EVIDENCE. Evolution has been proven to happen in countless experiments, is observable today and has mounds and mounds of genetic, biological and geological evidence backing it up.

Organisms do evolute and they are evoluting. But evolutionism alleges that organisms developed into this complex merely rely on evolution. And I have too say you must really study biology since you refuse to accept evolutionism is flawed. There are proofs but there are contradictions and missing links as well. You must not deny that. In short, evolutionism is not proven to be a fact. It is still a hypothesis, a kind of religions.


p.s. YOU HAVE BEEN BRAINWASHED BY YOUR IGNORANT SCHOOL TEACHER!!!

 

[Absinthe]

**** it.

I have to wonder who YOU were brainwashed by into thinking that evolution is flawed. Jesus Christ, it is the basis of all scientific biological research. Evolution has been, time and time again, shown to be a factual and reliable concept. Do not be fooled by the word "theory", since there is a major difference between a conjectural theory and a scientific one. To say that it's flawed is to also say that the theory behind plate tectonics is flawed, or that the theory of gravity is flawed. The only things regarding evolution that are up for debate are specifics. The concept as a whole, however, rings true out and out.

And it doesn't matter how you dance about faith. That is, by definition, a conclusion reached without any kind of reliable or empirical methodology. Hence, it's all a bunch of bull not worth a single solitary thought by anybody rational.

 

[theotherguy]

First, you are misleading. Not all religionists would spend millions of dollars and thousands of hours for their beliefs. People believe it within their heart, they just won't do anything to support/prove/disprove it. Second, religions is not limited in God or Gods. You are far too ignorant if you say there must be Gods in every religions. Third, beliefs are not necessary be facts since their value of existence is not restricted within that! It is fine if the religions are not too contradictory or evil. e.g., omnipotence is too contradictory, yes. But the idea of hell or heaven is acceptable.

Sure, you can beleive in something that can't be proven, but that doesn't make you any less of an idiot for beleiving in it.

Organisms do evolute and they are evoluting. But evolutionism alleges that organisms developed into this complex merely rely on evolution. And I have too say you must really study biology since you refuse to accept evolutionism is flawed. There are proofs but there are contradictions and missing links as well. You must not deny that. In short, evolutionism is not proven to be a fact. It is still a hypothesis, a kind of religions.


p.s. YOU HAVE BEEN BRAINWASHED BY YOUR IGNORANT SCHOOL TEACHER!!!

Surely, you could show me some of these "flaws"?

Yes, there are specific instances in which the evidence can be misleading. But this is science, not religion. Science doesn't say "oh, well this organism is a bit puzzling, we might as well throw out the whole evolution thing!" Science says "oh, well this organism is a bit puzzling. Why don't we do some tests to see what happened?"

Evolution can and does create complex organisms. How is that so hard to understand? It's not random, its not chance, its selection. Selection can give you incredibly complex forms based on only a few simple rules.


The theory of gravity is similarly "flawed" in that the rules break down at quantum levels. Does that mean that gravity doesn't exist? of course not! It only means that we have yet to fully understand the mechanics of gravity. The same is with evolution.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

"It is still a hypothesis, a kind of religions."

Ahaha.

So is gravity.
In fact, by the standard you apply, everything is a religion.
Computers are religion. Cars are religion.

Ever heard of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle?
It states, scientifically, that you can never know 100% of anything. On the subatomic level, the process of observing always disrupts a system.

If your standard is that "anything that is not 100% proven is a religion", then everything is a religion.
There is no truth in your world.

Vampires are equally real as friction, or scientology.


So why does your computer work? Why do fires need fuel?
Because, whether you like it or not, this world follows clear and blatant rules.

Evolution fits those rules perfectly. It is supported by evidence and it has not been disproven.
God has never been supported with evidence. Different versions of god have been disproven without much trouble.

Saying that evolution is equally plausible as god proves my characterization (of religion as a political party for the deluded) better than I ever could.

If you reject all laws - logic's and god's - then what is left?

This isn't The Matrix, and you aren't Keanu Reeves. Reality does not bend for you.


There is no logical religion.
Science is built on logic.

Do you understand the difference?









Here is a test: what is 2+2 ?

 

[Raziaar]

So basically, when faced with the reality that your god is a logical mess, you just tune it out?

I really hate to accuse people of willful delusion, but that sadly seems to be the case with most religious people.

I'm not really tuning anything out. I already know my religion cannot be proven. I've known for a very long time. And so what? Am I not supposed to believe in a god simply because I cannot prove the existence? Why... when my faith goes on the factor that it cannot be proven, just trusted to be so?

What harm is the religion bringing to my life, other than the criticisms and possible persecutions of other people? All I see is benefit. The benefit of spiritual happiness that is granted by the practice of my religion that other people apparently don't have, or don't want to have.

Anyways... I hate to sound kind of preachy, since I'm really not.

 

[theotherguy]

Because its unjust. It's unjust that so many thousands of people can be fooled into beleiving in a lie.

What happiness can religion possibly give you? As a theist I was constantly depressed because I knew I had something to live up to, I had to follow the rules or an angry god would damn me forever. I was depressed because I thought that to have any chance at eternal life I would have to kiss the ass of a despotic and downright crazy supernatural being. It was like being in 1984 and worrying about the thought police constantly, or like being a little kid who has to follow the rules for Santa Claus.

As an atheist I am free of that, and it has made me much happier.

 

[bbson john]

Surely, you could show me some of these "flaws"?

How does a beetle become a Bombardier beetle?

Evolution can and does create complex organisms. How is that so hard to understand? It's not random, its not chance, its selection. Selection can give you incredibly complex forms based on only a few simple rules.

In this world, there is not only evolutionism and creationism. There are theories beyond dichotomy. There are Theistic evolutionism and others, ignorant kid. As I said, organisms evolute but it doesn't mean evolutionism is true. Evolutionism means ALL beings ONLY obey the laws of evolution. In fact, they doesn't. I have just made an example.

The theory of gravity is similarly "flawed" in that the rules break down at quantum levels. Does that mean that gravity doesn't exist? of course not! It only means that we have yet to fully understand the mechanics of gravity. The same is with evolution.

I can't see you've studied physics before. The theory of gravity doesn't say only "gravity exists". In fact, there is many small branches of theory and laws. If one of the branches is wrong, the theory is flawed. But the root of the theory, gravity, still exists. Just we need another sub-thoery to explain it. A theory is wrong doesn't mean the all of the stuffs in it is non-sense. And the theory of gravity is different from evolutionism. Evolutionism is simliar to a general proposition. Gravity is really a scientific theory.

Waiter, a nice cup of shut the **** up for this gentleman, please.

So is gravity.
In fact, by the standard you apply, everything is a religion.
Computers are religion. Cars are religion.

Okay, you became hysteria.

Ever heard of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle?
It states, scientifically, that you can never know 100% of anything. On the subatomic level, the process of observing always disrupts a system.

I know, observation induces wave-function collapse. This makes spiritualist makes sense.

If your standard is that "anything that is not 100% proven is a religion", then everything is a religion.
There is no truth in your world.

So why does your computer work? Why do fires need fuel?
Because, whether you like it or not, this world follows clear and blatant rules.

Quantum theory tolds us things within the probability make sense. Not "all the things cannot be proven".

Evolution fits those rules perfectly. It is supported by evidence and it has not been disproven.
God has never been supported with evidence. Different versions of god have been disproven without much trouble.

First, you are brainwashed by your primary school teacher. There are, not only one or two, but many missing links in the evolutionism. I don't understand how you guys keep saying it is "perfect". You should read more books. I accept that if you say evolutionism is more likely to be true, but evolutionism is far from "proven" or "fits perfectly". Second, you are one of those dichotomy whore. There are many theories in the world. There is no "if you are not evolutionist, you are creationist". Again, read more books.

Saying that evolution is equally plausible as god proves my characterization (of religion as a political party for the deluded) better than I ever could.

Did I say that? Or you made this "saying" up? Why God but not Gods?

If you reject all laws - logic's and god's - then what is left?

Did I reject laws? Who say that evolutionism is law? Who say that evolutionism is logic? Your primary school teacher? There are flaws and contradictions. Of course there are not as many as those in creationism. One day these question is unanswered, one day evolutionism is no law.

This isn't The Matrix, and you aren't Keanu Reeves. Reality does not bend for you.

Reality bend for no one. OR, reality bend for everyone. That's the quantum machanics' trick.

There is no logical religion.
Science is built on logic.

Do you understand the difference?

Who says Science is evolutionism? Or whos says religions always go against sicence. "There is no logical religion" is such a general proposition while what you know is Christianity only, one of the THOUSANDs religions in the word.

Here is a test: what is 2+2 ?

Sounds tricky :/
What is your definition of "2" and "+"? Is it decimal? I would say 2+2 is 2+2

 

[Raziaar]

Because its unjust. It's unjust that so many thousands of people can be fooled into beleiving in a lie.

What happiness can religion possibly give you? As a theist I was constantly depressed because I knew I had something to live up to, I had to follow the rules or an angry god would damn me forever. I was depressed because I thought that to have any chance at eternal life I would have to kiss the ass of a despotic and downright crazy supernatural being. It was like being in 1984 and worrying about the thought police constantly, or like being a little kid who has to follow the rules for Santa Claus.

As an atheist I am free of that, and it has made me much happier.

Unjust? Why is it unjust? It's not like they're being forced to believe that "lie" at the point of a blade or the muzzle of a gun. What do you care whether people believe in a great unseen being that created the universe? Just shrug your shoulders and move on. The only reason you should have for throwing a fit, is when those people start trying to change your life based on their religions. And they do that, and that's not right... so why not deal with those people, and shrug your shoulders to the rest and move on?

As far as what happiness religion can give me. Plenty. The joy in knowing/believing my family will go on to better places than what we know of here on earth... the troubles and hardships of this life, rather than just rotting in the ground... their existence ceased. The comfort of thinking that the truely evil and wicked people get their just punishment, and don't have the same fate upon death that the most noble and kind hearted/generous people had.

There's other things too. When you're alone and nobody else is with you in the worst times in your life, at least in your mind you would have comfort and peace knowing that you're not 'truely' alone. It may sound silly, but some people take great comfort in that, and are protected mentally to certain degrees from the horrible realities around them.


The problems you had. I cannot relate, because I don't really have those problems much. At times, yes... on my rocky days, but usually not at all. I don't view god as some nun with a yardstick ready to whip my ass if I fall out of line. Rather a support to keep me strong and keep me guided in life, even if I screw up and do some bad things. I don't worry about god damning me forever(except on those rocky days, which is no less than the mundane thoughts that your life will be a complete failure), because I have confidence in my faith. Nor do I think of myself as having to 'kiss ass'.

It just seems like it to me you weren't cut out for the religious experience(which doesn't consume your life in the least, as some people think). You went around thinking about god and the religion in the entirely wrong light, maintaining a negative view on everything rather than a positive one.

There are many more things that I haven't discussed here regarding ways religion make me happy and help me enjoy life... but I really hate to get into all this anyways because I normally don't like talking about religion. I just like to live my life, normally.

 

[bbson john]

lol
People live in a peaceful wealthy society and they never know how important religions are. Religions comfort people's heart and answered some scary but unanswered question.
Stupid people think "religion" = "obey, worship, fanatic". In fact, a true belief is in our heart, that's enough.

 

[hari66]

When you're alone and nobody else is with you in the worst times in your life, at least in your mind you would have comfort and peace knowing that you're not 'truely' alone. It may sound silly, but some people take great comfort in that, and are protected mentally to certain degrees from the horrible realities around them.

its not silly.its absolutely true.i cant count the number of times when i have been in the dumps and god (gods in my particular faith) was my best and only solace.
god does not force you into anything. the concept of god and prayer makes you form your own inner code of ethics, morality and general coduct and then stick to it.
its not as if god has anything at stake here.its yourself.if you can follow him and find peace of mind ,well and good. if you dont want to follow him ,and still get your peace of mind, thats ok too.
dont blame god for your depression( no offence meant)

 

[Mechagodzilla]

"How does a beetle become a Bombardier beetle?"

That is a question, not a flaw.
Look for the answer.
How does this not fit scientific knowledge as we know it?
Science is designed to incorporate questions, not merely answer them.
If you are looking for easy answers in science, it is no wonder you are disappointed.


"organisms evolute"

"evolute"
"evolute"
"evolute"
"evolute"

For some reason, I don't think you understand science as much as you think you do. The word is EVOLVE.

Show me a single peer-reviewed scientific paper which says "not everything evolves".

It shouldn't be difficult to find, if one exists. It would be big news.

"Evolutionism is simliar to a general proposition."

"Evolutionism" is a word that has not been used in a serious scientific context since the 1800s.
Even then, you have defined it incorrectly.

Anthropologists and Biologists will refer to "Evolutionists" in the 19th century as those who believe that the cultures or life forms being studied are evolving to a particular form. (see Platonic form). Very few scientists today, if any, believe that evolution in culture or biology works that way, and serious discussions generally take caution to distance themselves from that perspective.

"observation induces wave-function collapse. This makes spiritualist makes sense."

What? Spiritualists?
Spiritualists are people who claim to speak to the dead.
How does the uncertainty principle prove ghosts?

"Quantum theory tolds us things within the probability make sense."

What is "the probability"?
Who is "us"?
What are "the things"?
Which "quantum theory" are you talking about?
Are you even speaking english?

"First, you are brainwashed by your primary school teacher."

That what the guy says on www.timecube.com
You're acting insane.
I was never taught evolution in "primary school."

"Who say that evolutionism is logic? Your primary school teacher? There are flaws and contradictions."

Where? Show me a single paper that has as its conclusion "this contradicts evolution".

'"There is no logical religion" is such a general proposition while what you know is Christianity only, one of the THOUSANDs religions in the word.'

Show me a single one. Show me a single logical proof of god, gods or any religious belief.
I know far more than just christianity.

You claim that one exists?
Then show me one, or stop wasting my time.

"What is your definition of "2" and "+"? Is it decimal? I would say 2+2 is 2+2"

Your answer is an empty statement.

What is two plus two?
What is the answer to the equation "two plus two"?
Can you handle this question?

No more pseudoscientific claptrap about spiritualists and "evolute"-ing.

What is 2+2?

 

[theotherguy]

It's unjust because you essentially waste your life. You look forward to something constantly, you're constantly building up to some hypothetical eternal paradise in the sky with 49 virgins and you lose sight of the real world.

You may take pleasure in thinking there is some big grandfatherly being looking out for you, but this pleasure is essentially baseless. It's similar to being happy in financial hardships because you think you will eventually win the lottery, so you spend all your money on lottery tickets and never get a job and die a poor (albeit happy) person.

I am sorry, but whenever I think of something like that; the ignorant complacence that is inherent in religion, I am horrified. Sure, religion makes you happy, but it doesnt actually help you do anything. I would much rather be happy for real reasons than imagined ones.

How does a beetle become a Bombardier beetle?

natural selection. two groups of beetles are seperated by geography and climate. In one group of beetles there is a mutant which posesses the ability to squirt acid out of its abdomen. This mutant uses this mutation to its advantage by killing prey with it. The other beetles are less successful than the mutant beetle and have fewer offspring. Over time the mutant's offspring become the majority in the population of beetles, and are a new species. Over thousands of years, random mutations and natural selection ensure that only the most effective bombadier beetles survive. Tiny changes are made per generation, and over thousands of generations you eventually get a complex beetle that is strikingly different than its ancestor.

In this world, there is not only evolutionism and creationism. There are theories beyond dichotomy. There are Theistic evolutionism and others, ignorant kid. As I said, organisms evolute but it doesn't mean evolutionism is true. Evolutionism means ALL beings ONLY obey the laws of evolution. In fact, they doesn't. I have just made an example.

evolution is change over time. if you concur that all organisms evolve, then you are esentially admitting that evolution is true.

the "theistic evolution" you speak of is Intelligent Design. It is creationism, it is not science.

I can't see you've studied physics before. The theory of gravity doesn't say only "gravity exists". In fact, there is many small branches of theory and laws. If one of the branches is wrong, the theory is flawed. But the root of the theory, gravity, still exists. Just we need another sub-thoery to explain it. A theory is wrong doesn't mean the all of the stuffs in it is non-sense. And the theory of gravity is different from evolutionism. Evolutionism is simliar to a general proposition. Gravity is really a scientific theory.

Waiter, a nice cup of shut the **** up for this gentleman, please.

You've just proved my point. Evolution, like gravity, is a scientific theory. Evolution, like gravity, is made up of many different laws and branches. Evolution, like gravity, probably has a few flaws (none of which you have provided an example of). And evolution, like gravity, only needs to be studied further for those gaps to be filled.

 

[Raziaar]

It's unjust because you essentially waste your life. You look forward to something constantly, you're constantly building up to some hypothetical eternal paradise in the sky with 49 virgins and you lose sight of the real world.

I don't waste my life. I'm not looking forward to it in the sense that I lose sight of the reality around me, and the life i'm currently living here. How can you even say that when you obviously don't know? You're just throwing out assumptions there.

You may take pleasure in thinking there is some big grandfatherly being looking out for you, but this pleasure is essentially baseless. It's similar to being happy in financial hardships because you think you will eventually win the lottery, so you spend all your money on lottery tickets and never get a job and die a poor (albeit happy) person.

Baseless? Think what you think... but the happiness is real, no matter what you think. Only I would know that, and the other people who share that happiness, not you. More assumptions. And no its absolutely nothing like you described. It's about keeping an ultimately positive attitude despite the conditions. It's not about doing fantastical, stupid shit like you describe.

I am sorry, but whenever I think of something like that; the ignorant complacence that is inherent in religion, I am horrified. Sure, religion makes you happy, but it doesnt actually help you do anything. I would much rather be happy for real reasons than imagined ones.

They're not imigined reasons. See the thing is... I can be happy with all the things you can be happy with. Why? Because i'm just like you in the sense that I can enjoy life and the fruits it has to offer. Religion doesn't keep me from that. You talk about ignorance, yet you're ignoring your own. You obviously don't understand it, so why try to assume all these things? Why waste your time on it?

 

[Mechagodzilla]

"Religions comfort people's heart and answered some scary but unanswered question."

Pleasant or not, that's called self-deception. Also known as delusion.
Creating a fiction to fill the gaps of understanding is the act of replacing real knowledge with false.

'Stupid people think "religion" = "obey, worship, fanatic". In fact, a true belief is in our heart, that's enough.'

- 'True belief' is an oxymoron, when you are defining belief to mean faith.
- You believe using your brain, not your heart.
- 'Belief' and 'Religion' are seperate and different things.



"They're not imigined reasons."

Prove it.

"I can enjoy life and the fruits it has to offer. Religion doesn't keep me from that."

Two questions:

1) What is your religious affiliation?
2) Why do you follow that religion if your life is basically the same without it and, inherently, you have no proof of its validity?

 

[Ennui]

I haven't read a single post in this thread and I can already tell you I agree 100% with everything Mecha's been saying

 

[Raziaar]

Prove it.

They're not imigined reasons if they're very real to me. Jesus dude, what is your drive for all this anyways? It's not like it's going to change my mind on anything. I mean seriously, why spend so much of your time trying to dissuade people from religion? You're using more time posting in religious threads trying to disprove the existence of god than I have been devoting to my religious thoughts daily.

Two questions:

1) What is your religious affiliation?
2) Why do you follow that religion if your life is basically the same without it and, inherently, you have no proof of its validity?

Religious affiliation? I consider myself a non denominational christian. I'm not a member of any church. I keep my faith between me and god.

Life isn't basically the same for me without it. Religion doesn't completely change my life, but it alters it. And again, as I have said time and time again, I don't have a need to prove the validity of it. It's not like i'm trying to win an election or pursuade somebody of something. I just believe it, and that's that.

Call it delusion if you want... it doesn't bother me. Especially since by doing it it doesn't leave me less of an ability to do other things I enjoy in life. It's not an RPG where you only have so many life experience points to spend. You spending your time trying to dissuade people away from religion, and speaking out against it... is far more wasteful of time and effort than my religion by FAR. Honestly I don't know why you concern yourself with it so much. If you don't understand it, i'm sorry... but you just don't understand it.

Anyways, i'm off to bed.

 

[bbson john]

Sometimes, I find that I always make some hilarious mistakes, i.e. evolute

Your arguments start aiming at me, instead of my argument.
However, you coaxed a question from my mind: What is the definition of religion?

Pleasant or not, that's called self-deception. Also known as delusion.
Creating a fiction to fill the gaps of understanding is the act of replacing real knowledge with false.

Why people are taking pain-killer?

- 'True belief' is an oxymoron, when you are defining belief to mean faith.
- You believe using your brain, not your heart.
- 'Belief' and 'Religion' are seperate and different things.

1. Belief is not equal to faith.
2. if you believe, you believe. In linguistics, you need nothing to believe. I am using a cultural language since, for so long, people believe that heart is for belief. It is pedantic to state the common fact that you think using your brain. It is a wrong occasion to use the word brain here.
3. Belief and religion are different, yes.