True ghost stories

Well, obviously its an opinion, but it makes a damn site more sense than visions of an afterlife. As I said, all religions have different NDE's, so no one can be credible.
 
theotherguy said:
Well there you go. It just goes to show that if you have a degree in nonsense and superstition you'll be prone to spout nonsense and superstition.
Click to expand...



I'd like to see your degrees in whatever you beleive. You probably don't know a thing about theology. Noone on this Earth knows for sure whats real, and whats not real, but if someone is studying for years on what they beleive, well at least their trying to figure out and support.

At least try to listen and possibly relate to the opposing beleif in order to understand their reasons before you straight call scholars nonsense.
How do you explain Evp's?? I've tried this millions of times, and its crazy shit. Electromagnetic waves do not make a voice reply that you can't hear when you ask the question, once the recorder picks up the frequency we can't hear and you play it back whenever, you hear it pretty damn clear. I never beleived this untill I tried it. CoolEditPro 2 is a great program that lets you filter some fuzziness and any unwanted sound, and cleans up the main voice you want to hear.


Examples:
Asked "Is there anything or anybody that watches over us?"
Got a deep and very ****ing freaky voice reply almost instantly "We..Watch..You"

Went to a cemetary, got one saying " Get OUT" and "I'm dead.. I'm dead...No..I'm dead"

In my basement there were alot of " **** you", " Leave me alone", "****ing pigs" and what not.

I swear by this, and I just don't think anything "natural" caused it.
I've gotten plenty of responses to questions, too many to be coincidence. They'd be personal, too. Saying our names and shit (of my family in the house). You should'nt call something fake if you have'nt even done anything to prove it. At least I tried to, you know.
 
Atomic_Piggy said:
That was a bit harsh wasn't it? :P
I'd like to add that just because he didn't lie doesn't mean it actually happened, the human mind is a very complex thing, but some can't fathom that a lot of things are simply inside the head.
Click to expand...

Since you imagine 3 close claw marks form across your chest, and every one you show sees it. He felt something, looked down, and three claws marks were progressing down his chest. How do you explain this? Mind Claws??
 
guitars savior said:
I'd like to see your degrees in whatever you beleive. You probably don't know a thing about theology. Noone on this Earth knows for sure whats real, and whats not real, but if someone is studying for years on what they beleive, well at least their trying to figure out and support.

At least try to listen and possibly relate to the opposing beleif in order to understand their reasons before you straight call scholars nonsense.
How do you explain Evp's?? I've tried this millions of times, and its crazy shit. Electromagnetic waves do not make a voice reply that you can't hear when you ask the question, once the recorder picks up the frequency we can't hear and you play it back whenever, you hear it pretty damn clear. I never beleived this untill I tried it. CoolEditPro 2 is a great program that lets you filter some fuzziness and any unwanted sound, and cleans up the main voice you want to hear.


Examples:
Asked "Is there anything or anybody that watches over us?"
Got a deep and very ****ing freaky voice reply almost instantly "We..Watch..You"

Went to a cemetary, got one saying " Get OUT" and "I'm dead.. I'm dead...No..I'm dead"

In my basement there were alot of " **** you", " Leave me alone", "****ing pigs" and what not.

I swear by this, and I just don't think anything "natural" caused it.
I've gotten plenty of responses to questions, too many to be coincidence. They'd be personal, too. Saying our names and shit (of my family in the house). You should'nt call something fake if you have'nt even done anything to prove it. At least I tried to, you know.
Click to expand...

crazy shit there.
 
I really hate when people say, "There are some things that can't be explained." One of my friends likes to give me this line as some kind of incontrovertible proof that something exists in the realm of the supernatural. Ghosts, religion, psychic experiences, etc. It doesn't work. I'm sorry, but people who say "some things can't be explained" are just simple-minded. Just because you don't know the explanation, or even if science can't explain why it happens RIGHT NOW, doesn't mean that it will never be explained, or that there's something otherworldly going on.

There's a reasonable explanation for everything. We just haven't found all the reasons yet.

Things like evps, what Guitars' talking about. I've heard those things before. It's usually a bunch of random sounds that your brain is trying to translate into understandable words, and you end up hearing stuff. And then you get some people around and play it back, and they're like, "What am I supposed to be hearing?"
"Listen. It says <blah blah blah>. Hear it?"
And then one person goes, "Oh yeah, hey, I hear it!"
And then everyone else says, "Oh man, that's freaky. I hear it now too." Because they've already got in their head what it's SUPPOSED to be, that it's actual words, and not just a bunch of garbled static. Their brain now thinks they're actually hearing something when they're not.

That being said I vote this thread is now about us asking Guitar to go ask the spirits of the dead things and have him post back the results. That'll make for a good read.
 
Actually: Guitar, you should go and ask the spirits some things again, and then post the .wav files without telling us what we should be hearing, and then see if we can pick anything out individually. It'd be a neat experiment.
 
Thats a real good idea, I'll actually do that. Some are too clear to be shoved off as just static. I've shown alot of people that know right off the bat what is says without me telling them. One's that have been asked about the other side were
Is there a jesus? "yes"
How many dimensions are there (church teaches of 3, theology (in depth christianity) tells of 7). When asked, got a reply of "seven" (which makes more sense, leavin room for pergutory, heaven, hell, limbo, the living, the dead, etc.)
I guess there is possibly things "they" can't let us know though, considering when asked about many in depth things, they say "too much" or "cant tell you". You never know.
Not sure, but maybe theres stuff "they" (if there is such) can't let us know. Or your never know, could be fake, could be an explanation. I'm just going by personal experiences which are better than someone else telling you whats real and not real, people that have not experienced anything. Its ****in scary when it does happen to you though.

Any ideas on what to ask?
 
Darkside55 said:
I really hate when people say, "There are some things that can't be explained." One of my friends likes to give me this line as some kind of incontrovertible proof that something exists in the realm of the supernatural. Ghosts, religion, psychic experiences, etc. It doesn't work. I'm sorry, but people who say "some things can't be explained" are just simple-minded. Just because you don't know the explanation, or even if science can't explain why it happens RIGHT NOW, doesn't mean that it will never be explained, or that there's something otherworldly going on.

There's a reasonable explanation for everything. We just haven't found all the reasons yet.

Things like evps, what Guitars' talking about. I've heard those things before. It's usually a bunch of random sounds that your brain is trying to translate into understandable words, and you end up hearing stuff. And then you get some people around and play it back, and they're like, "What am I supposed to be hearing?"
"Listen. It says <blah blah blah>. Hear it?"
And then one person goes, "Oh yeah, hey, I hear it!"
And then everyone else says, "Oh man, that's freaky. I hear it now too." Because they've already got in their head what it's SUPPOSED to be, that it's actual words, and not just a bunch of garbled static. Their brain now thinks they're actually hearing something when they're not.

That being said I vote this thread is now about us asking Guitar to go ask the spirits of the dead things and have him post back the results. That'll make for a good read.
Click to expand...

Yeah but these 'explanations' could be just as much garbage as you claim paranormal activities are, reasons like saying the brain can create this incredible visions of enhanced touch, feel and sight, when its completely starved of oxygen and pretty much dead. How do we know they are just using their expertise in those fields to abuse the argument, just because they are ravid atheists, i will admit, that my side of the argument is very controversial, but i am willing to open my mind to the prospect of their something more out there. But in my opinion, the other side of the argument is just as fraudulent as my side.

Just to add, read up on a neat experiment some scientists did to test the accuracy of mediums. They brought in the supposidly, 7 best mediums in the world, put them under lab conditions. Brought in 14 random people, so that the mediums could each read one person each, there was no way whatsoever that the mediums would have known which people would be brought in. Each of the people had had past relatives who has passed away. After the test, there was a 85-90% accuracy whihc shocked the scientists. The test subjects were claiming that they were telling them things in which there was no way in hell, they would know. Just a little thing i saw.
 
i have an idea. how about you die, find out for sure, and tell us all about it in our dreams?
 
victor said:
i have an idea. how about you die, find out for sure, and tell us all about it in our dreams?
Click to expand...

why in your dreams when you can supposedly just answer whoever is asking directly if your dead? Thats more of what seems to happen.
 
He was being sarcastic, as to crap on the topic lol.

How about you stay out of the topic unless you have something decent to say.

k.
 
guitars savior said:
One's that have been asked about the other side were
Is there a jesus? "yes"
How many dimensions are there (church teaches of 3, theology (in depth christianity) tells of 7). When asked, got a reply of "seven" (which makes more sense, leavin room for pergutory, heaven, hell, limbo, the living, the dead, etc.)
Click to expand...
I can already tell you that's bullshit. Sorz.

Jesus never existed, or he existed only as a man. Research Mithra. Go ahead and look it up. I bet that's something you've never heard a theologian talk about, because they can't handle Mithra. It f*cks 'em up.

Also as for dimensions, science has recently looked into a model of ten dimensions, none of which being things like heaven, hell, etcetera. In fact purgatory was recently stricken from the list by the pope himself, so how do you explain that one? Either the ghosts are jerking your chain, the pope has the express power to create and banish dimensions at will, or it's all BS.

Shift, a lot of scientists aren't "rabid atheists," for one. For two, what are these "enhanced visions of sight and touch" you're referring to? When the brain is being starved of oxygen, it's BECAUSE your brain is shutting down that people perceive out-of-body experiences or the "light at the end of the tunnel" effect. Feeling of detachment from separate areas of the brain shutting down systematically as you suffer brain death. Bright lights seen by people who've had NDEs think they're seeing the afterlife; what they don't know is that oxygen starvation causes the pupils to dilate, in addition to the sympathetic nervous system operating at maximum activity, again causing your pupils to widen. The eyes literally dilate at 100 times normal size upon oxygen loss to the brain. The increased dilation takes in a lot of light that your dying mind perceives as bright, warm, painless whiteness.

Oxygen loss to the brain also causes malfunctions in the muscle spindles, hence this sense of "enhanced touch." If you want I could get into how the muscles spasm and the neurons that pass along those messages from the muscle spindles through your somatic nervous system are interpreted by the dying brain as movement. It's seriously a last ditch attempt by your body to illicite some kind of help from the brain.

Telling you dude, simple minds. And I don't necessarily mean you, and I don't necessarily mean it as an insult. Just people like to believe something's out there when there isn't. There are no such things as ghosts. Would that there were. Seriously, would that there were.

Also if that study with the mediums is online, please link me to it. I'm already thinking it's a case of cold reading. John Edwards, dude. John Edwards.
 
i may be mistaken, but i think there's been some chemical compound developed that illicits a NDE experience. go figure.
 
How exactly do you look at a model of dimensions? Just by making one with no actual knowledge and nothing to observe? That makes alot of sense. I wasn't saying it was set in stone that there are 7 dimensions, and that they are purgatory and whatnot. And the pope? O noooo, he said purgatory was'nt true. The Roman Catholic church had alot of things wrong (supposedly, like I always say, no one can know for sure), and definately strays from evangilists point of views. The Roman Catholic church used to say that the only way you'd get into heaven and be saved is if you get a peice of paper saying that your getting into heaven and your saved. Hmm, not even close to logical, and strays from what the bible teaches. Theres even been the idea that only the pre-ordained get into heaven. Once again, goes against the bible. Theologists stick close to the bible. I mean its THE book of christianity and has maintained just how it was ever since it was written. Mithra has been shot down many times. Theologians actually have fun dissecting that from what I know. How in the world would something based off of multiple gods and someone born from a cosmic egg **** with a christian? I honestly think some scientists have extremely simple minds, the fact they can up and say, "okay heres how this looks even though I have noo clue what it forreal looks like and composes of, im gonna study it and make my conclusion off of my own creation the basis which all people should beleive, since I have soo much proof that God in fact does not exist."
More and more scientists are starting to turn towards faith due to the conclusion that theres no way many things such as the human brain and its relevancy with the body could have been constructed without some kind of divinity. Science has many inconsistencies, the bible compared with many religions formed and stemmed from it has many inconsistencies. Obviously we'll never know untill we're, well of course dead.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this topic called "True Ghost Stories?" What does all this stuff you're talking about have to do with a ghost you've seen, or heard about? If you wanna talk about Theology, go talk about it in a new topic, and leave this one be.
 
guitars savior said:
Mithra has been shot down many times. Theologians actually have fun dissecting that from what I know. How in the world would something based off of multiple gods and someone born from a cosmic egg **** with a christian?
Click to expand...
Uh...there's nothing to shoot down. And the reason it messes with a Christian is because the cosmic egg was only one theory of how Mithra came to be. The other one is that Mithra was born of a virgin on the 25th of December, 1400 BC, hundreds of years before Christ. He was said to grow up to become a prophet, a "messiah," a "savior," had references to being a shepherd of lambs, and had 12 men of faith who journeyed with him, 12 disciples who represented the 12 signs of the zodiac. He had a final supper with them and then died on a cross. After his death he later rose in the spring equinox. Dies Natis Solis Invicti, the Birth of the Unconquerable Sun, was his holiday. December 25th.

I don't know what theologians you talk to, but when you bring that up to them (and he's only one of the many gods who share the same origins, if not the same dates), it messes with them too bad. They don't know what to say. They splutter a lot. I like to use it when Jehovas Witnesses come to my house too. It works really well on them. A lot of times they end up saying, "Well, I don't believe in that," and then they get up and leave. :laugh:

More and more scientists are starting to turn towards faith due to the conclusion that theres no way many things such as the human brain and its relevancy with the body could have been constructed without some kind of divinity.
Click to expand...
Good lord. Creationism. Uh, I hope you're just giving me an example here and not saying that YOU PERSONALLY believe that there's no way a human brain could've been constructed without a creator. Because then I just...gah. Just, gah.

And scientists don't do things without actual knowledge. They don't just say, "Hey I bet there's such and such dimensions." They look at what data they have and look at their observations and they observe it some more, and experiment on it if they can. To call that simpleminded in the face of a dusty old book that talks about a magical, invisible man...again, gah.

There's something. Ask the ghosts how they feel about creationists.
 
guitars savior said:
More and more scientists are starting to turn towards faith due to the conclusion that theres no way many things such as the human brain and its relevancy with the body could have been constructed without some kind of divinity.
Click to expand...

no, a lot more americans are starting to believe in creationism, because your administration has cut education funding and you're all going fuc^king stupid.

science is the act of developing a logical framework for describing patterns and behaviours in nature. it has nothing to do with belief, it is fact. religion and science are two different things altogether, so please stop this bullshit.
 
guitars savior said:
More and more scientists are starting to turn towards faith due to the conclusion that theres no way many things such as the human brain and its relevancy with the body could have been constructed without some kind of divinity. Science has many inconsistencies, the bible compared with many religions formed and stemmed from it has many inconsistencies. Obviously we'll never know untill we're, well of course dead.
Click to expand...

:laugh: this blatent statement of ignorance made me laugh so much. Athiesm is on the rise everywhere, not going down. Teh only reason people think more people are turning to faith is because in America creationism is so popular. In my country alone 66% of the population are atheists, when in 2001 it was something like 40%. Secular goverments are increasingly proving to be superior. People are realizing the truth (as in, getting smarter). There is no eternal paradise. There's no ghost in the machine. Aliens aren't abducting innocent people. Your not gonna be raped in your sleep by a physic or spirit if you don't have the magic crystals.

Science having inconsitensies? Please point out one, that can be compared to THIS: http://www.ministerturnsatheist.org/biblescienceblunders.html

THIS:
http://www.ministerturnsatheist.org/bibleabsurdities.html

and THIS: http://www.ministerturnsatheist.org/biblecontradictions.html

Science is inconsitant?

EDIT: oh and darkside55 should run for president. Srsly.
 
atheism is bullshit too. not having faith doesn't make you any less ignorant that people who do. there's stupid people on both sides of the fence.
 
But one side of the fence doesnt believe in imaginary friends who craft universes single handedly using their magic powers :P
 
faith is necessary for a human being to live. anybody who tells you that they've accepted the fact that their existence is meaningless, and that the only thing awaiting them at death is nothingness is a filthy liar. self denial is golden.
 
victor said:
faith is necessary for a human being to live. anybody who tells you that they've accepted the fact that their existence is meaningless, and that the only thing awaiting them at death is nothingness is a filthy liar. self denial is golden.
Click to expand...
How dare you say our lives aren't worth living, my faithless life has alot of meaning you arrogant prick.
 
victor said:
faith is necessary for a human being to live. anybody who tells you that they've accepted the fact that their existence is meaningless, and that the only thing awaiting them at death is nothingness is a filthy liar. self denial is golden.
Click to expand...

I have faith that most of the human race is a bunch of moronic twits.
 
Darkside55 said:
I can already tell you that's bullshit. Sorz.

Jesus never existed, or he existed only as a man. Research Mithra. Go ahead and look it up. I bet that's something you've never heard a theologian talk about, because they can't handle Mithra. It f*cks 'em up.

Also as for dimensions, science has recently looked into a model of ten dimensions, none of which being things like heaven, hell, etcetera. In fact purgatory was recently stricken from the list by the pope himself, so how do you explain that one? Either the ghosts are jerking your chain, the pope has the express power to create and banish dimensions at will, or it's all BS.

Shift, a lot of scientists aren't "rabid atheists," for one. For two, what are these "enhanced visions of sight and touch" you're referring to? When the brain is being starved of oxygen, it's BECAUSE your brain is shutting down that people perceive out-of-body experiences or the "light at the end of the tunnel" effect. Feeling of detachment from separate areas of the brain shutting down systematically as you suffer brain death. Bright lights seen by people who've had NDEs think they're seeing the afterlife; what they don't know is that oxygen starvation causes the pupils to dilate, in addition to the sympathetic nervous system operating at maximum activity, again causing your pupils to widen. The eyes literally dilate at 100 times normal size upon oxygen loss to the brain. The increased dilation takes in a lot of light that your dying mind perceives as bright, warm, painless whiteness.

Oxygen loss to the brain also causes malfunctions in the muscle spindles, hence this sense of "enhanced touch." If you want I could get into how the muscles spasm and the neurons that pass along those messages from the muscle spindles through your somatic nervous system are interpreted by the dying brain as movement. It's seriously a last ditch attempt by your body to illicite some kind of help from the brain.

Telling you dude, simple minds. And I don't necessarily mean you, and I don't necessarily mean it as an insult. Just people like to believe something's out there when there isn't. There are no such things as ghosts. Would that there were. Seriously, would that there were.

Also if that study with the mediums is online, please link me to it. I'm already thinking it's a case of cold reading. John Edwards, dude. John Edwards.
Click to expand...

I would argue but i guess that comes as a turning point in this argument, where we go around in circles again. Lets all believe what we want, and leave it at that, guess we'll find out if its all true when we die anyway, and we wont if it isn't, because we are dead, lovely internal blackness, cant wait.
 
Solaris said:
How dare you say our lives aren't worth living, my faithless life has alot of meaning you arrogant prick.
Click to expand...

QFT what a ****ing nob. How dare you call me a liar victor. I have a purpose; I don't work for some invisble man in the sky who promises the world but deilvers nothing but for the future; for the childeren alive today and the childeren who will be born and for all of humanity. Just because you can't comprehend that I have purpose without a god doesn't mean I don't.
 
**** me, i missed a lot of this convo when i posted ROFL.
 
victor said:
faith is necessary for a human being to live. anybody who tells you that they've accepted the fact that their existence is meaningless, and that the only thing awaiting them at death is nothingness is a filthy liar. self denial is golden.
Click to expand...

HAHAHAHAHAH oh lawdy lawd. Get outta here. Your ****ing hilarious man. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
Shift said:
I would argue but i guess that comes as a turning point in this argument, where we go around in circles again. Lets all believe what we want, and leave it at that, guess we'll find out if its all true when we die anyway, and we wont if it isn't, because we are dead, lovely internal blackness, cant wait.
Click to expand...

The problem is that most of your fellow believers wont let people make up their own minds. Its force fed into our society, and is literally integrated into our culture. As non-believers, we need to counter act your actions to keep some sort of balance, and hopefully through our clashing, and arguing, the onlookers will be able to see both sides, and make a proper choice.


EDIT: Ah sonofabitch. Sorry for double posting.
 
Solaris said:
How dare you say our lives aren't worth living, my faithless life has alot of meaning you arrogant prick.
Click to expand...
Atomic_Piggy said:
QFT what a ****ing nob. How dare you call me a liar victor. I have a purpose; I don't work for some invisble man in the sky who promises the world but deilvers nothing but for the future; for the childeren alive today and the childeren who will be born and for all of humanity. Just because you can't comprehend that I have purpose without a god doesn't mean I don't.
Click to expand...

learn to read. you have a purpose, that purpose is obviously to provide for and raise the next generation. i never said otherwise. what i said was that existence is essentially meaningless. which is true. the universe is a closed system. the human race can expand all it wants, and it will eventually reach a limit which it can't breach, so why bother trying?

it boils down to the fact that things like "reason" and "purpose" are solely products of the human mind. objects have no absolute meaning or purpose, it isn't something you can measure. thus if you take the view that only things that are physical should be taken seriously, you have to accept the pointlessness of your existence and feel nothing but despair. what makes you think that the idea of "purpose" is any more valid than the idea of God?

-edit
btw, faith doesn't necessarily mean believing in god. just believing without reason.
 
what i said was that existence is essentially meaningless.?
Click to expand...
Your right. Everything is essentially meaningless. If the universe collapsed in on itself tomorrow and space-time ends... anything we did really wont matter. In fact any piece of atom in existance wouldn't matter. No that does not bother me. I'll make the best of it while i'm here.
 
there's a difference between saying something and knowing something. but whatever lets you sleep at night.
 
there's a difference between saying something and knowing something.
Click to expand...
is there really? or is it all a matter of perception?
 
faith that you can trust your senses. faith that there is such a thing as perception.
 
Okay this is getting really stupid now. Can we go on with our ghost stories now? I haven't had any that I remember but I'm interested in hearing more.
 
guitars savior said:
I'd like to see your degrees in whatever you beleive. You probably don't know a thing about theology. Noone on this Earth knows for sure whats real, and whats not real, but if someone is studying for years on what they beleive, well at least their trying to figure out and support.

At least try to listen and possibly relate to the opposing beleif in order to understand their reasons before you straight call scholars nonsense.
How do you explain Evp's?? I've tried this millions of times, and its crazy shit. Electromagnetic waves do not make a voice reply that you can't hear when you ask the question, once the recorder picks up the frequency we can't hear and you play it back whenever, you hear it pretty damn clear. I never beleived this untill I tried it. CoolEditPro 2 is a great program that lets you filter some fuzziness and any unwanted sound, and cleans up the main voice you want to hear.


Examples:
Asked "Is there anything or anybody that watches over us?"
Got a deep and very ****ing freaky voice reply almost instantly "We..Watch..You"

Went to a cemetary, got one saying " Get OUT" and "I'm dead.. I'm dead...No..I'm dead"

In my basement there were alot of " **** you", " Leave me alone", "****ing pigs" and what not.

I swear by this, and I just don't think anything "natural" caused it.
I've gotten plenty of responses to questions, too many to be coincidence. They'd be personal, too. Saying our names and shit (of my family in the house). You should'nt call something fake if you have'nt even done anything to prove it. At least I tried to, you know.
Click to expand...

I've read a lot of theology, and it is nonsense. They go through a logical circus, starting with false premises found in the Bible or in the writings of Aquinas, and then use faulty logic to come up with nonsense conclusions based on the false premise. Getting a degree in Theology is like getting a degree in "interpreting fairy tales", or "discovering the meaning behind the pinkness of unicorns". It's a completely worthless field that does nothing for the human condition.

What is this EvP? Hearing "electromagnetic waves" from "the dead"? If that's the case it would be easily scientifically testable. You're probably forcing yourself to hear things out of nothingness. The human ear and eye is very prone to finding patterns in randomness. Ever listened to a babbling brook? The reason we say it is babbling is because the random white noise made by it is misinterpreted by the brain to be distant, muffled conversation. White noise creates a similar effect. If you take a random pattern of pixels and you stare at it long enough, you will start to make out faces. Again, its the brain's pattern recognition going to work.

We are wired to recognize faces and hear voices. That is why we are so good at communicating with one another. It wouldn't surprise me if all you were hearing was white noise and falsely interpreting it as voices. What you really ought to do is record it, and have someone look at the waveform.
 
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