True ghost stories

[Atomic_Piggy]

the universe is a closed system. the human race can expand all it wants, and it will eventually reach a limit which it can't breach, so why bother trying?

How do you know our decendants won't stop the death of the universe or leave to another, possibly of their own creation. We are approaching the point of no return, a technological singularity beyond which we cannot imagine - who are you to say that we are limited.

Second, saying our existence is meaningless is, accept it or not, saying we live purposeless lives.

"thus if you take the view that only things that are physical should be taken seriously, you have to accept the pointlessness of your existence and feel nothing but despair"

I've heard similar stuff from ignorant fundamentalists. How the **** do you know if I feel despair? In my religous life I was extremly unhappy, I prayed to god, particualry when I started having doubts, and he did diddally sqaut to help, breaking his promise. You can't seem to fathom that yes, I realize that my existence has no epic purpose, but that I am also happy. "Nothing but despair?" thank god not everyone thinks like that or many people would have commited suicide.

Finally, even if we do die out, as has been pointed out, we simply have to live with what we've got.

 

[.Wolf.]

so. victor.

ITS OFFICIAL... YOU SUCK!​

you seem to have no knowlage of anything. you contradict yourself by saying there is no purpose for us atheists, but THEN you say we all have a purpose. you are blinded by your so called "god" and his awsomeness. face it, noone knows any of these things. religion could all be wrong, or science all could be wrong. or both. the one certain thing is, it aint going to be solved by this petty squabbling. end story. NOW BACK ON TOPIC DUDZ! :bounce:

 

[Cole]

faith that you can trust your senses. faith that there is such a thing as perception.

Everything is an act of faith therefore. However is one act of faith comparable to another?

 

[Darkside55]

faith is necessary for a human being to live. anybody who tells you that they've accepted the fact that their existence is meaningless, and that the only thing awaiting them at death is nothingness is a filthy liar. self denial is golden.

It took me awhile but I finally came to grips with that. Took a long time, y'know...sometimes, just recently too tbh, I woke up one night and the first thing that popped into my head was that: death is nonexistance. Everything I am and will be will be erased at the end of my life. Scary prospect but at least I'm not lying to myself.

So, back to ghosts, right? Today's June 11. On Thursday, it'll be June 14. 14 years ago on that day, my father was tied up, stabbed multiple times, and finally shot through the side of his neck by multiple assailants. I was 10. The last picture I have of my father is a browning, aged newspaper clipping of him at his open casket funeral. You know, you'd think if ghosts actually existed, my father would've dropped his son a line at least once all these years. I dunno maybe he was as much a deadbeat in death as he was in life. Still a long time to wait for a "Hey, son." What could he really be doing that's so important?

 

[Absinthe]

How dare you say our lives aren't worth living, my faithless life has alot of meaning you arrogant prick.

QFT

It's baffling how so many theists complain about snooty atheists when your typical daily or Sunday Christian practice is so overloaded with arrogance it could cause a man's head to explode.

-"I was created by wonderful, loving God who takes an active interest in me personally."
-"I know the truth about existence that so many others cannot or will not accept due to their own ignorance or narrow-mindedness."
-"I will be saved for knowing this truth. Everybody else will suffer eternal torture."

It's staggering.

 

[victor]

first off, i don't believe in god. please stfu.
some of you are a bit slow, so i'll make it simple.

you think you have purpose -> therefore you have purpose.

purpose is not a physical thing -> therefore purpose is a construct of mind -> you're believing that you have purpose

god is a construct of mind. a thought. a belief.

if believing in something gives it substance ala. purpose -> believing in god gives god substance.
-edit
Cole: difficult question. honestly, i don't know, but it seems to me irrelevant. the point is that everyone is acting on faith to a degree, so to critisize people for believing stupid shit seems hypocritical. as long as they don't try to convert you at 5am on a saturday, f^uck it.
-/edit
ergo people who claim not to believe in god should stop being snooty dickwads, and religious people who want to twist science to their beliefs an go get bent.

and christianity sucks.

 

[Absinthe]

Except believing in something doesn't give it substance. Wishful thinking does not result in actual manifestation.

The difference between my "purpose" in life and the belief in God is that I accept that my directions and aims in life are of my own making and apply solely to me. A belief in God supposes an independent entity that exists regardless of belief in it or an absence of such.

I don't see what's so snooty about saying belief in God is both unsubstantiated and nonsensical. It requires an assumption of the highest magnitude, which wouldn't be so bad if there were some full-fledged, positive, practical uses for it that couldn't be derived from elsewhere.

 

[victor]

what is the difference between actual manifestation and perceived manifestation? given that everything in human experience is experienced only through perception, it stands to reason that what actually exists is pretty much irrelevant. what matters is what you BELIEVE exists.

there IS a positive use for belief in god/religion. it allows people to deal with the prospect of death, and gives their life meaning. and most importantly it's EASY. it offers an easy solution for the toughest questions ever posed by mankind.

also makes a fair bit of money in the process.

 

[Absinthe]

what is the difference between actual manifestation and perceived manifestation? given that everything in human experience is experienced only through perception, it stands to reason that what actually exists is pretty much irrelevant. what matters is what you BELIEVE exists.

Fine. I believe you have a million dollars buried in your backyard. Go dig around and tell me if I'm right.

What your argument doesn't take into account is when individual perceptions come into contradiction. The sum total of human knowledge is built upon corroboration. When two individual perceptions differ, we recognize a discrepancy in which either one is right or both are wrong. Corroboration is what we utilize in order to see past our subjective, colored views of the world in order to produce objective facts.

This isn't "different strokes, different folks". If you believe that the mere thought of something makes it real or valid, then you are practicing delusion. Using your line of thought, even the most ludicrous, nonsense beliefs are rendered acceptable.

there IS a positive use for belief in god/religion. it allows people to deal with the prospect of death, and gives their life meaning. and most importantly it's EASY. it offers an easy solution for the toughest questions ever posed by mankind.

also makes a fair bit of money in the process.

That's not a positive use. That's a cheap, unhealthy platitude that answers no questions and gives no valid guidance (at least none that could be considered based on reason).

All the benefits you've listed are half-assed when supplied from religion, and can be acquired from more rational, secular, grounded sources. If you're having trouble dealing with the prospect of death or your life's meaning, go seek a therapist. At least he or she won't require you to behead infidels, hate gays, or **** up an education system becoming increasingly loaded with religions pseudo-science.

 

[victor]

then i guess it's a good thing i can't perceive as two different people, because you're right, that would cause problems. even though by comparing subjective views, we can get relatively objective facts, this doesn't make a person's individual view any less subjective. i agree that as a whole, established religion causes more wars and suffering than it's worth, but i wasn't arguing for established religion, merely that there's nothing wrong with believing something that can't be proved.

i'm not sure what you mean by "rational sources". any rationalisation of existence will require suspension of disbelief, because there is not intrinsic reason for existence. of course it's possible to believe in a god that doesn't require you to martyr yourself. or just skip god, and believe in living a good life for the sake of it. either way, you're still either denying the finality of death or just avoiding it.

-edit
as for religion and science:

and religious people who want to twist science to their beliefs an[sic] go get bent.

religion that promotes ignorance sucks: we are agreed. but religion is not inherently ignorant.

 

[Beerdude26]

I agree that as a whole, established religion causes more wars and suffering than it's worth, but i wasn't arguing for established religion, merely that there's nothing wrong with believing something that can't be proved.

If you let people believe in things that aren't real, sooner or later you'll have trouble. Hitler (he's just a very clear example) thought all his countrymen were superior to others. Other countrymen agreed with him. His power grew and grew, and you know the rest.

It's a bit like the creation of a religion: one guy gets a silly idea, and others agree with him. Suddenly, their combined forces make them a whole lot dangerous, especially if that original silly idea was not to give out free alcoholic beverages to evreryone, but (for example) to discriminate and hurt anyone who is homosexual.

I'm not saying we have to limit people's thoughts and opinions; I'm just saying that you have to keep a close eye on people who aren't the brightest and mentally stable to make sure they don't get any fabulous ideas.

 

[victor]

i suppose so. whatever.

 

[guitars savior]

I've read a lot of theology, and it is nonsense. They go through a logical circus, starting with false premises found in the Bible or in the writings of Aquinas, and then use faulty logic to come up with nonsense conclusions based on the false premise. Getting a degree in Theology is like getting a degree in "interpreting fairy tales", or "discovering the meaning behind the pinkness of unicorns". It's a completely worthless field that does nothing for the human condition.

What is this EvP? Hearing "electromagnetic waves" from "the dead"? If that's the case it would be easily scientifically testable. You're probably forcing yourself to hear things out of nothingness. The human ear and eye is very prone to finding patterns in randomness. Ever listened to a babbling brook? The reason we say it is babbling is because the random white noise made by it is misinterpreted by the brain to be distant, muffled conversation. White noise creates a similar effect. If you take a random pattern of pixels and you stare at it long enough, you will start to make out faces. Again, its the brain's pattern recognition going to work.

We are wired to recognize faces and hear voices. That is why we are so good at communicating with one another. It wouldn't surprise me if all you were hearing was white noise and falsely interpreting it as voices. What you really ought to do is record it, and have someone look at the waveform.

the waveform is what i highlight and loop. its not a dead line with just white noise. i never use the actual white noise way, where you let a radio play the just the static since it somehow makes for clearer evp's? hell no, thats the kinda people that give you that view on it just being white noise and hearing nothing. i used a clear room many of times, no noise except my questions, and perfectly logical answers(as in answered directly to me and in exact relevance to the question) instantly. electromagnetic waves don't have personality and a thought process. sometime soon i will post some new recordings on this thread, and show how clear and crazy they are. i won't even say what they say, its so apparent you'll figure it out right off the bat.

 

[Taboo]

i suppose so. whatever.

Best. argument. ever.

Maybe people wouldn't be so hostile in response to your ideas if you weren't such a prick. :thumbs:

 

[Naudian]

the waveform is what i highlight and loop. its not a dead line with just white noise. i never use the actual white noise way, where you let a radio play the just the static since it somehow makes for clearer evp's? hell no, thats the kinda people that give you that view on it just being white noise and hearing nothing. i used a clear room many of times, no noise except my questions, and perfectly logical answers(as in answered directly to me and in exact relevance to the question) instantly. electromagnetic waves don't have personality and a thought process. sometime soon i will post some new recordings on this thread, and show how clear and crazy they are. i won't even say what they say, its so apparent you'll figure it out right off the bat.

I really want to hear them now

 

[victor]

it takes skill to say "believe what you want, i don't care" and still sound like a prick.


victor - 1, world - 0

 

[TCfromBN]

What a truly interesting thread this has turned out to be.

lol

 

[guitars savior]

back to the ****in subject.

I'm not sure if this is exactly ghostly, but weird as shit nonetheless. About a year ago I was in my basement(at this time it was bro's room) chillin with him and his girlfriend. It was a pretty rainy night, but calmed down alot by that time. I can't remember what game I was playing, but during it my bro straight passed out, dead to the world. It was pretty late. I decided to get up and go outside to pee since there was no bathroom in the basement, and I was pretty high and did'nt wanna move my ass up the stairs. Our driveway is like a circle with an "island" in the middle. Theres a couple trees loosely lining the circle, with alot of dead leaves in the middle. My brother parked his car there all the time back when this happened. I remember looking at his car, and seeing something white, a long shape with the tallness of a human, but just not quite distinguishable legs arms....anything. It was moving from one side of the car to the other looking in as if it could just go wherever it wants in a blink of an eye, just floating. I can't really explain how weird it looked. I'd say the car was about 20 to 25 feet away from me, it was dark, and I was sorta high, so I thought nothing of it. I was damn sure it was just me seeing things. I walked inside after I finished draining myself, and just out of curiosity decided to grab gina's camera and just take a picture of the car from exactly where I was standing to see if I could catch anything. I wanted to see if it would possibly work, because even now I think that most "ghost pictures" are fake from assholes who want popularity and waste their time editing and editing these bullshit pictures. His girlfriend walked out with me the second time and I did'nt see that figure again. I still decided to take the pic and the flash from the camera lit alot of the yard, and I saw the car perfectly, of course, as did his girlfriend. I looked at the picture and knew something was ****ing crucially wrong. I saw the whole island, the gravel on both sides and all the trees lining the circle, the weird thing was his car was'nt in the picture. The ****ing dry spot under his car was there though, a perfect square showing that rain did not touch that section under his car and remained dry. I held the picture up in comparison with what I was seeing, and sure enough, his car was there and everything else that did show up in the pictures. I was pretty damn speechless. I can't play that off as just being high and dumb, because I smoke a ****load and have a crucial tolerance. Anyone that smokes alot would know that two hits won't do much to them at all, let alone make you hallucinate. Pretty impossible to hallucinate by just smoking. Gina did'nt smoke, and witnessed everything besides what I saw when I first walked out there (which still could be my eyes just ****in with me, just the figure around the car part). We compared the picture to the real life view a million times to make sure I did'nt veer off to the side when I took the pic. Of course, everything matched up besides the car. Took a second picture, no car, just a dry rectangle in place of where it was supposed to be. Crazy shit. She deleted the damn picture a couple months later, which sucks, but not really, who would beleive that kind of picture if they were'nt there to see that the car in fact was where the dry spot was in the picture.

 

[victor]

goastmobile

 

[Darkside55]

The logical explanation is that the car was manufactured by the same company that made Wonder Woman's invisible jet. She can see it just fine, but nobody else can and it doesn't show up in pictures. You can totally see her flying in the jet though, which is ridiculous because what's the point of an invisible jet if you can see the pilot?

Anyway I find the whole idea of ghosts audacious. The fact that a lot of people who see these apparitions have actually no stake in the dead when I have a very, very, very valid reason to want to believe in them, to SEE them, to have some kind of reassurance...it pisses me off, man. I've seen a lot of people die. You'd think they'd come back if they could to speak with you. You'd think that anyone who lost someone important would have that experience. Unfortunately, most people haven't and common sense dictates that those who have are simply tricking their own minds to live in a fantasy world. "Such-and-such dead relative came to me and told me blah blah blah or helped me in such-and-such way." Pfft.

 

[Sulkdodds]

I seem to remember someone saying that if ghosts were real they'd be an infinite source of energy (because they're intangible but nevertheless assert force on the physical world or something?) thus we need to harvest them.

 

[Azner]

How do you suck the energy out of a ghost??

Makes sense though.
What energy can you draw from it?
Energy can neither be created or detroyed right?

The logical explanation is that the car was manufactured by the same company that made Wonder Woman's invisible jet. She can see it just fine, but nobody else can and it doesn't show up in pictures. You can totally see her flying in the jet though, which is ridiculous because what's the point of an invisible jet if you can see the pilot?

TO THE INVISIBLE BOAT MOBILE!

edit

Sh*t didnt notice i had posted 5 min ago in this VERY SAME THREAD!! I sense goast.

 

[Operational]

"True ghost stories"
that is an oxymoron