US confirms Quran violated

[Solaris]

Yes whats amazing is how you back up all your posts with sources and the like. I think its excellant etiquette, and you really don't let people get out of a debate too easilly.

>truth does spur me on
An excellant motive.

 

[Raziaar]

Yes whats amazing is how you back up all your posts with sources and the like. I think its excellant etiquette, and you really don't let people get out of a debate too easilly.

>truth does spur me on
An excellant motive.

To quote "The Wolf" from pulp fiction, "Let's not start sucking each other's ***** just yet"

<rolls his eyes>

 

[BlueEagle]

I've read the first 7 pages, all the way until I reached iz3r's posts that included fake quotes from the Quran...

That guy really pissed me off :/
I'm a Muslim, and I would never ever fake quotes from the Bible or the Torah, and I will NEVER do.

but Iz3r has faked quotes from the Quran, making us look like barbarian pigs, killing everyone who isn't a muslim.

I was really offended by him.. He didn't give a damn source for the quotes :/
and make himself look like some wise guy..

I mean, seriously, how lower than that can you get?!
Islam is a religion of million of muslims.. yeah right! millions are barbarians and terorrists huh?

I feel terribly sorry for him.
I posted this just as a reply for Iz3r, and I don't want to start any flame wars..

Cheers,
-Blue

 

[Foxtrot]

I've read the first 7 pages, all the way until I reached iz3r's posts that included fake quotes from the Quran...

That guy really pissed me off :/
I'm a Muslim, and I would never ever fake quotes from the Bible or the Torah, and I will NEVER do.

but Iz3r has faked quotes from the Quran, making us look like barbarian pigs, killing everyone who isn't a muslim.

I was really offended by him.. He didn't give a damn source for the quotes :/
and make himself look like some wise guy..

I mean, seriously, how lower than that can you get?!
Islam is a religion of million of muslims.. yeah right! millions are barbarians and terorrists huh?

I feel terribly sorry for him.
I posted this just as a reply for Iz3r, and I don't want to start any flame wars..

Cheers,
-Blue

I don't think Iz3r himself made up those quotes, he found or heard about them from a website I think, which is even worse.

 

[iyfyoufhl]

I've read the first 7 pages, all the way until I reached iz3r's posts that included fake quotes from the Quran...

That guy really pissed me off :/
I'm a Muslim, and I would never ever fake quotes from the Bible or the Torah, and I will NEVER do.

but Iz3r has faked quotes from the Quran, making us look like barbarian pigs, killing everyone who isn't a muslim.

I was really offended by him.. He didn't give a damn source for the quotes :/
and make himself look like some wise guy..

I mean, seriously, how lower than that can you get?!
Islam is a religion of million of muslims.. yeah right! millions are barbarians and terorrists huh?

I feel terribly sorry for him.
I posted this just as a reply for Iz3r, and I don't want to start any flame wars..

Cheers,
-Blue

did you see how i busted him though?

 

[bliink]

I posted this just as a reply for Iz3r, and I don't want to start any flame wars..

You won't.. he' been banned

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Once they start, will start.

not acceptable under geneva conventions ..and before you say it doesnt apply: yes it does under the fourth Geneva convention:

"Unlawful combatants may retain rights under the Fourth Geneva Convention in that they must be "treated with humanity and, in case of trial, shall not be deprived of the rights of fair and regular trial"."

Once our resisters start working with the Geneva Convention, only then I say should we start working with it.

 

[iyfyoufhl]

Once our resisters start working with the Geneva Convention, only then I say should we start working with it.

yeah, but we should be above that, don't lower our selfs down to their level, but be honorable country and respect our enemy, i mean, you ask why they hide, use suicide bombs, decapitation and such, we simply because there is not other way for them to fight, they don't have organized military, they don't have as much resources as we do, all they are left with tactics that i mentioned above

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/koran_sop.pdf

No similar rules for the inspection of Bibles. :/

 

[Raziaar]

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/koran_sop.pdf

No similar rules for the inspection of Bibles. :/

I don't see why the rules are just sooo damn detailed. I mean, come on, there's got to be a certain point where common sense plays in. If people get offended at EVERY little thing you do to the koran... LIKE TOUCHING IT WITH YOUR LEFT HAND! Damn... what the hell...

I say there just be simple, respectful things that one could apply to any object... such as no defiling, no destroying, no bad things of any manner purposefully used to signify your distaste of it. It shouldn't have to include all those 'item specific' things that people who are not of the faith wouldn't normally know.

It just gets to the point where its asinine.


http://netwmd.com/articles/article1022.html

Heh. interesting article.

 

[CptStern]

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/koran_sop.pdf

No similar rules for the inspection of Bibles. :/

well I'm pretty sure there isnt all that many bible toting christians in gitmo ...maybe the guards but not the prisoners


"According to REDACTED, an unknown number of guards entered his cell, unprovoked, and started spitting and curing at him. . . . REDACTED rolled onto his stomach to protect himself, REDACTED state a soldier named REDACTED jumped on his back and started beating him in the face REDACTED then choked him until he passed out. REDACTED stated that REDACTED was beating him because REDACTED was a Muslim . . ."


source

btw redacted means censored

 

[KoreBolteR]

hmm why didnt they just fill in the name with 'joe' instead of the big lettered 'REDACTED'.

would have sounded better...

 

[CptStern]

because joe isnt a common name amongst muslims

 

[KoreBolteR]

because joe isnt a common name amongst muslims

but his name was Joe Hussain :E

 

[CptStern]

ya but they also mention american soldiers by name ...I guess using GiJoe and Joe Hussein would be a little confusing for the guards


maybe they use nametags ..."Hi my name is Bob, I'll be your interrogator today"

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

well I'm pretty sure there isnt all that many bible toting christians in gitmo ...maybe the guards but not the prisoners


"According to REDACTED, an unknown number of guards entered his cell, unprovoked, and started spitting and curing at him. . . . REDACTED rolled onto his stomach to protect himself, REDACTED state a soldier named REDACTED jumped on his back and started beating him in the face REDACTED then choked him until he passed out. REDACTED stated that REDACTED was beating him because REDACTED was a Muslim . . ."


source

btw redacted means censored

I really don't trust anything that any of the foreign fighters detained at gitmo are saying. After all, Zarqawi's public announcement and many manuals found instruct them to accuse abuse even without it happening.

 

[Solaris]

I really don't trust anything that any of the foreign fighters detained at gitmo are saying. After all, Zarqawi's public announcement and many manuals found instruct them to accuse abuse even without it happening.

Under the Human rights act they are being abused the moment there detained. Manuals found? Source please. And look at all the pictures, and the reports. It is a big problem.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Under the Human rights act they are being abused the moment there detained. Manuals found? Source please. And look at all the pictures, and the reports. It is a big problem.

They are not being abused as soon as detained, to say so is a slap in the face to anyone in history who has been tortured in their life.

Al Qaeda Manual tells them to claim abuse:
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/084871.php
http://www.inthebullpen.com/archives/2005/05/31/al-qaida-handbook-calls-for-alleging-torture/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20050531-121655-7932r.htm

In a raid on an al Qaeda cell in Manchester, British authorities seized al Qaeda's most extensive manual for how to wage war.

A directive lists one mission as "spreading rumors and writing statements that instigate people against the enemy."

If captured, the manual states, "At the beginning of the trial ... the brothers must insist on proving that torture was inflicted on them by state security before the judge. Complain of mistreatment while in prison."

The handbook instructs commanders to make sure operatives, or "brothers," understand what to say if captured.

"Prior to executing an operation, the commander should instruct his soldiers on what to say if they are captured," the document says. "He should explain that more than once in order to ensure that they have assimilated it. They should, in turn, explain it back to the commander."

 

[Foxtrot]

They are not being abused as soon as detained, to say so is a slap in the face to anyone in history who has been tortured in their life.

Al Qaeda Manual tells them to claim abuse:
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/084871.php
http://www.inthebullpen.com/archives/2005/05/31/al-qaida-handbook-calls-for-alleging-torture/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20050531-121655-7932r.htm

In a raid on an al Qaeda cell in Manchester, British authorities seized al Qaeda's most extensive manual for how to wage war.

A directive lists one mission as "spreading rumors and writing statements that instigate people against the enemy."

If captured, the manual states, "At the beginning of the trial ... the brothers must insist on proving that torture was inflicted on them by state security before the judge. Complain of mistreatment while in prison."

The handbook instructs commanders to make sure operatives, or "brothers," understand what to say if captured.

"Prior to executing an operation, the commander should instruct his soldiers on what to say if they are captured," the document says. "He should explain that more than once in order to ensure that they have assimilated it. They should, in turn, explain it back to the commander."

This really should be common sense that they would try this, but some people will just take any chance to find flaw and grasp onto it with everything they have.

 

[Pesmerga]

I'm certainly not offended when someone pisses on the bible...although I could see getting angry at someone for pissing on my PC Gamer or C++ Primer...

 

[CptStern]

I really don't trust anything that any of the foreign fighters detained at gitmo are saying.

every last one of them is lying?

even the ones they've released? ....if he was released then it can be logically presumed that he is NOT a member of al qaeda and wouldnt be privy to the information contained in the manual.





maybe he's lying for the sake of lying

 

[Raziaar]

every last one of them is lying?

even the ones they've released? ....if he was released then it can be logically presumed that he is NOT a member of al qaeda and wouldnt be privy to the information contained in the manual.





maybe he's lying for the sake of lying

Well... maybe that, or lying for the people still in.

 

[Foxtrot]

Well... maybe that, or lying for the people still in.

Or for $$

 

[CptStern]

Well... maybe that, or lying for the people still in.

ya cuz I bet he made a lot of chums in the ol cell block ..bet they sang chain gang songs and told tales of the good old days

 

[Raziaar]

ya cuz I bet he made a lot of chums in the ol cell block ..bet they sang chain gang songs and told tales of the good old days

Why would he have to make chums, to feel the need to free these people depsite the fact they may be guilty? Even if lying to do so? Many of these people see the united states as an enemy, and sort of migrate to attacking it collectively in whatever fashion.

I see the same in you, and others at times... anything USA... its gotta be against it, and never with it even if its good!

 

[CptStern]

I'm the enemy? you're deluded



you cant for the life of you admit that it happens ...despite the mountain of evidence

 

[Raziaar]

I'm the enemy? you're deluded



you cant for the life of you admit that it happens ...despite the mountain of evidence

No... you're not the enemy, but you're certainly an unyielding antagonist no matter what the subject is, as long as it somehow concerns the united states you're against it.

You people have no problem in finding the good in a convicted felon, but GOD FORBID find any good in the USA, and the many innocent and decent people that comprise it.

 

[bliink]

Raziaar & Stern, knock it off.

 

[Solaris]

No... you're not the enemy, but you're certainly an unyielding antagonist no matter what the subject is, as long as it somehow concerns the united states you're against it.

You people have no problem in finding the good in a convicted felon, but GOD FORBID find any good in the USA, and the many innocent and decent people that comprise it.

This is not about the USAs pros and cons.

Its about the USA imprisoning people without trial for an indefinate period, and torturing them.

Instead of calling people morons and Anti Americans, put up a proper argument.

 

[trizzm]

Hi, I don't know shit about ancient, meaningless (to me of course) cultures that somehow kept making their way through the ages and still persist on earth now, so, what's the difference between an Islamist and a Muslim? thanks, i'm just curious.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

This is not about the USAs pros and cons.

Its about the USA imprisoning people without trial for an indefinate period, and torturing them.

Instead of calling people morons and Anti Americans, put up a proper argument.

First off, they're not being tortured, it's just allegations from enemy fighters from Guantanomo.

I agree after a certain time they should be trialed, but in this case they go under US Military Tribunal, not US civil court.

Hi, I don't know shit about ancient, meaningless (to me of course) cultures that somehow kept making their way through the ages and still persist on earth now, so, what's the difference between an Islamist and a Muslim? thanks, i'm just curious.

A muslim is a peaceful follower of the religion of Islam.

An Islamist (More commonly refered to as an Islamofascist) is an extreme 'theocratic statist.'

They push for a global theocratic Islamic state, and call for the death of anyone in the way of that. Al Qaeda members are an example of Islamofascists, but it's not just limited to them. Clerics who put all the calls for this in Mosques, etc, are Islamofascists, but you can't do anything against them due to the first amendment unless they actively tell someone to commit a specific terrorist act.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Its about the USA imprisoning people without trial for an indefinate period, and torturing them.

Instead of calling people morons and Anti Americans, put up a proper argument.

... and I'm sure you did that with your own post ... :rolling:

Truthfully speaking, we know there are quite a few people out there who misdirect their hate in a lot of the wrong places. Opinions or not, no entire section of the world deserves to be "hated".

Now, where all trying to get are points accross to each other, while we pursue to understand what points come accross to us; in a humane and understandable attempt. ... but when several people immentionabley keep pursuing the wrongs of x_country, your either a citizen defeatist, concerned for the well being of that country and disagree with the political and world choices this part of the world made, or simply hate the whole damn country.

Nethire of those suggested have shown concern for the well-being of the country [in question] except when it involves their own values (which is inumerabley selfish and irresponsible), so with that, we prove their Rhetoric exists.

Now, here's something you should know: (Not liking what a country does, does'nt mean you hate it). (Not liking a country because of what it does, and ending up hating every last soul within it because of its ups-and-downs, costs you your cheek worn Gold Kindergarten Star Sticker reading, "I'm a smart kid", and means you hate the whole damn country.)

Our country is most often misrepresented in all of its situations not because of the media, but by political watchdogs and extremist angsty slightly over-weight E-Bloggers who whine at the first set of cheese they see.

 

[CptStern]

First off, they're not being tortured, it's just allegations from enemy fighters from Guantanomo.
.

are you kidding me? you cant possibly believe that ...you're either sailing the down the river of de-nile or you're so entrenched in your dogmatic sense of patriotism that you cant see the forest in spite of the trees


which I guess is the same thing

 

[seinfeldrules]

are you kidding me? you cant possibly believe that ...you're either sailing the down the river of de-nile or you're so entrenched in your dogmatic sense of patriotism that you cant see the forest in spite of the trees

On the other hand stern, I dont think you should so easily believe everything they say too.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

On the other hand stern, I dont think you should so easily believe everything they say too.

Agreed.

 

[CptStern]

On the other hand stern, I dont think you should so easily believe everything they say too.

I dont ...if one person said I'd be skeptical ...but there are literally hundreds of people saying the same thing. Not too mention that there is more than enough physical evidence


ok now it's your turn ...

 

[seinfeldrules]

but there are literally hundreds of people saying the same thing.

There are literally hundreds of people denying it as well. Even when abuse is found, the guilty have been prosecuted.

 

[CptStern]

There are literally hundreds of people denying it as well. Even when abuse is found, the guilty have been prosecuted.

abuse or torture? what are we talking about here? The abuse is well documented ...so is the torture:




"An FBI email regarding DOD personnel impersonating FBI officials during interrogations. The e-mail refers to a "ruse" and notes that "all of those [techniques] used in these scenarios" were approved by the Deputy Secretary of Defense. (Jan. 21, 2004)"

declassified fbi email:



“Of concern, DOD interrogators impersonating Supervisory Special Agents of the FBI told a detainee that REDACTED. These same interrogation teams then REDACTED. The detainee was also told by this interrogation team REDACTED. These tactics have produced no intelligence of a threat neutralization nature to date and CITF believes that techniques have destroyed any chance of prosecuting this detainee. If this detainee is ever released or his story made public in any way, DOD interrogators will not be held accountable because these torture techniques were done the “FBI” interrogators. The FBI will be left holding the bag before the public.”

Another FBI agent’s account of interrogations at Guantánamo in which detainees were shackled hand and foot in a fetal position on the floor. The agent states that the detainees were kept in that position for 18 to 24 hours at a time and most had "urinated or defacated [sic]" on themselves. On one occasion, the agent reports having seen a detainee left in an unventilated, non-air conditioned room at a temperature "probably well over a hundred degrees." The agent notes: "The detainee was almost unconscious on the floor, with a pile of hair next to him. He had apparently been literally pulling his own hair out throughout the night." (Aug. 2, 2004)




source


here's a declassified email implicating the white house with sanctioning the use of torture:

"A document released for the first time today by the American Civil Liberties Union suggests that President Bush issued an Executive Order authorizing the use of inhumane interrogation methods against detainees in Iraq."

source

 

[seinfeldrules]

what are we talking about here?

I think its clear, by your post, that you have no idea.

 

[CptStern]

did you even read it? did you read the documents?