weed..whats the big deal??

[Beta Man!]

Do I know you, Wildhound Sounds like you've profiled me.

I just don't think Im one of those guys that smokes pot to solve my problems. I smoke the Mary Jane because it gives you a wonderful, read: _WONDERFUL_ feeling while your high. Afterwards, it's like sex, you know you had a good time and you feel like getting on with your life.

 

[Warbie]

For now Beta Man! - start smoking more and it will become as dull as having a cigarette (sounds like you're being sensible with it tho)

I agree Wildhound, in moderation it's pretty harmless. But these days it ppl arn't smoking in moderation. Cannabis users who smoke every now and again are in the minority (I believe)

Some ppl use the situation in Holland as an example of why weed should be legalised. The majority of dutch users I met did smoke in moderation. But they were also very sensible drinkers, infact apart from some of the porn out there ( ) they're a very sensible bunch. It aint like that in the UK, and i'm pretty certain it isn't in the US .... this attitude will be transfered to cannabis. Like Maskirovka said - it's societal issue we have to deal with.

Comparing cannabis to booze doesn't work for me either. Booze has always remained something 'special' to do on nights out/special occasions etc. Weed isn't, it's just a replacement for tobacco/tea/coffee ....... that's the key to the problem

Maskirovka wrote:

'the problem is, why is that kid doing drugs in the first place? that's a bigger societal issue and has nothing to do with weed itself. like you said, there's no difficulty in getting it.'

I guess ppl do it cause it's fun, percieved as cool and harmless (ggrr). Kids don't smoke weed cause they've got nothing to do, and I don't think it's a povety issue. Weed's fun and playing video games or listening to music is more fun stoned.

 

[Beta Man!]

Thanks Warbie, but I don't smoke the evil addictiveness that is cigarettes Yes, I agree that moderation is the key. Your not doing yourself a favor by toking more than once or twice a week. Just gives you something to look forward to; not to depend on.

And I completely agree with you on the playing-video-games-while-stoned. It damn well might just be virtual reality, the way you get into it. The other day I was at my bros, and we were playing Hidden and Dangerous 1 coop. The first map (rainy one) was so immersive, it was EXACTLY like I was there in real life

 

[shiv]

Originally posted by Snakebyte
I must say I agree with most of EvilEwok2.0's points, although I'm not going to try to reiterate them. I just have an interesting thought to share.

If weed was legalized, what comes next? Everyone wants to legalize a different drug that is only slightly more harmful? Then another, and another? Where would it end?

Have any of you people read Brave New World? Aldous Huxley predicts that ~500 years from now people will live in a utopia where individuals are mass-produced into various social classes, while each person lives only for instant gratification. The point is that this is what the world could become if society continues on the course it is currently headed.
In the story, everyone frequently uses soma, a "perfect drug," to cloud the reality of the situation they live in so they will be happy all the time. Not only is this drug legal, it is encouraged by the government to promote social stability.

I'm not saying that this prediction would come true as a result of the legalization of weed, but how many other drugs would eventually be legalized later? Scary thought...

you are soo right and I thought I was the only person who listened to nancy reagan wwhen she said just say no!!!
yeah weed will make you kill people and look at porn and stuff. If it was legal to smoke weed the whole world would be destroyed by the evil weed!!! Weeed makes you think people are like chickens and then people end up killin other people cause they have the munchies from smoking weed and they eat the people cause they thought they was chickens!!!

 

[Rico]

Originally posted by Beta Man!
Thanks Warbie, but I don't smoke the evil addictiveness that is cigarettes Yes, I agree that moderation is the key. Your not doing yourself a favor by toking more than once or twice a week. Just gives you something to look forward to; not to depend on.

I really don't mean to start up trouble or anything, but shouldn't weed be something you do and not something you look forward to doing? That sounds like an addiction if anything...


I like playing video games but that doesn't mean i look forward to playing them. If i'm bored i will play them, if i feel like it i will play them. Heck, i don't even look forward to playing HL2 right now, im just waiting until it comes out so i can have an extra thing to do when im bored.

Weed, much like video games should not be something you look forward to, but something you do for entertainment when you have nothing else to do.


PS: This is all my opinion, anyone can disagree to it but this is just the way i see things.

 

[hunter-killer25]

*read only first page*
no guys, today around 12:37, my friend (ahum...) sold "hydro plants" to some other people ( i don't smoke weed, i blow things up [for the last godamntime though i'm not a terrorist!! ] i'm more of a illegal firework kinda guy,i love bottle rockets and gi joe combos) why would people buy weed week after week if it wasn't addictive, think about it.

 

[Warbie]

Nothing wrong with looking forward to something - parties/meals/sex ....... doesn't mean you're addicted to them.

How can you not be looking forward to playing HL2 Rico?? You must be a mentalist

 

[K e r b e r o s]

First off,

Mchammer, in my original post I was'nt referring to you, or anyone on the boards; sorry if their were any problems.

Secondly,

Sorry I could'nt bring you the exact figure of this nations population.

Thirdly,

Your points seem to share one common bond--freedom.
Some people have hinted its wrong to control how they carry themselves or what they do with their bodies--other people feel that kind of control should either be: Administered--or--Personal Saftey maintained by the Goverment; and not the person itself.

I'am not debating for or against drugs--its just your points are all so similiar, the only thing differeniating them is by wether or not drugs are involved.

Now, we could easily say: Face it. Drugs are everywhere--we waste too much money, so on and so fourth; but I think this should be left up to state regulation and not national regulation to determine wether drugs should be legal or not.

This country began not as a whole nation--but as a country ran by smaller countries--so it should be so unless the law seems to do more bad then good. However, the unfortunate things about this is we would have outcased homosexuals, drug users (With or without saftey distinction), and unconstitutional rules that allow people of more dangerous mind-sets to prevail and others to decay.

However, leaving such issues for a much smaller assembly to decide; instead of dictating law from our supreme court, I think would do more good then bad.

Some of you hate drugs. Some of you like them.
Some of your arguments are stable. However, some of them are not.

My point by saying this is "agree to disagree" because we here are nethire legislative power, or contain the intimidation to change someone's minds--wether by hearsay or solid fact.

Its an interesting debate noless, infact its why we come here; to get our opinions out because a politically correct world would have none of it--you can keep discussing it, but all its ever going to do is cause more stress, over-emotion, angst, confusion, and anger in people who seem to not end their posts or people's thoughts decisively. Been fun--I got my thoughts out.

BTW, masterbation is not a drug--nor addictive. THAT can be proven by our states and our nations Surgeon Generals.

 

[crabcakes66]

Originally posted by Beta Man!
Show me one study that says that Marijuana is addictive in any way and I'll eat my hat. Short term memory loss and emotional imbalances? Yea sure.... its called being high. Those symptons go away in a few hours after you get high anyway, so whats the big deal?

Personal experiance......... even better than a scientific study.

Weed is addcitive......as much so as tobbaco.... both physically and mentally.


But you ovbiously have not been reading my posts.

 

[Maskirovka]

i don't think it's been proven that weed is addictive physically...if it has, fine...if you have personal experience to that end, fine...i'm not saying you're wrong...

but weed is definitely addictive mentally...to some people. they look forward to it, they build their lives around it...my friend's brother is like that.

but i've smoked weed probably 10+ times and i never felt like i had to do it again...same with cigarettes...i've smoked them a ton of times at parties and never felt like having one outside of that atmosphere.

i don't smoke cigarettes anymore, and i haven't smoked weed since new year's 2001, and i never will do either again...neither are worth it to me at all.

but still, if someone thinks it is worth it...who am i to tell them they can't have it? it doesn't affect me. people want to blame societal problems on THINGS or SUBSTANCES...but it's really people that are to blame.

society is made up of people...how can you blame problems on anything but those people and the choices they make?

 

[Beta Man!]

I smoke pot once or twice a week and if I skip a week or two it's no big deal, I probably wouldn't even notice it. And what the heck do you live for if you think it's unhealthy to simply look forward to something? Are you telling me you don't give a damn about HL-2, Christmas, Summer?

 

[ph34r t3h cute]

I dont smoke, or drink (much) or do drugs (that includes weed) as I think there bad for you...

But im not whine and moan about people who do, as its there life, do what they like, infact I hate people who bitch about what other people do, leave them the hell alone

 

[crabcakes66]

Originally posted by Beta Man!
I smoke pot once or twice a week and if I skip a week or two it's no big deal, I probably wouldn't even notice it. And what the heck do you live for if you think it's unhealthy to simply look forward to something? Are you telling me you don't give a damn about HL-2, Christmas, Summer?

and i can smoke a ciggerette once or twice a week or have a beer once or twice a week......and i will not become addicted......


your not seeing my point......... Pot is addictive......


I used to smoke pot everyday 3+ times a day........not once or twice a week.

I had withdrawl when i quit....i got cold sweats...my hands shook ...i couldnt sleep or eat.

I talked to my doctor and she said its not uncommon for heavy pot smokers to have withdrawl symptoms just like if you quit smoking tobbaco.

Pot is addictive......ive experianced the effects myself......

and no scientific study can prove to me that its not.


You need to go back and read some of my posts......

 

[MrD]

Originally posted by hunter-killer25
*read only first page*
no guys, today around 12:37, my friend (ahum...) sold "hydro plants" to some other people ( i don't smoke weed, i blow things up [for the last godamntime though i'm not a terrorist!! ] i'm more of a illegal firework kinda guy,i love bottle rockets and gi joe combos) why would people buy weed week after week if it wasn't addictive, think about it.

(circle theory here we go)

Anyway... why do people watch television week after week if its not addictive? Please at least think about what you are posting before you post it.

 

[oldi1knoby]

Television can be addictive...

I have seen people miss a class for Survivor .... yes, SURVIVOR!

It should be legal... A kid can buy pot from anyone he wants. Drug dealers don't card, store clerks do...

It was easier for me and my friends to get pot than it was to get Alcohol.... We had to FIGHT to get it...lol

 

[MrD]

Since no-one has answered still, I will ask again :

Why should canabis be illegal to those who would use it responsibly?

Seriously, the "other people might mis-use it" argument is getting old. It is completely irrelevent since other freely available *legal* substances can also be mis-used (and in much worse ways).

Please god, will you stop using the same damn arguments.

 

[MrD]

Originally posted by oldi1knoby
Television can be addictive...

Indeed, but not in the sense that hunter-killer25 was using the word.

I guess according to some people's argument we should ban television as well. LOL!

 

[oldi1knoby]

Um, that is the sense he was using it. Addiction, in my opinion, is when a person is obsessed with something so much they would put it before something more important.

The dictionary definition : The condition of being habitually or compulsively occupied with or or involved in something.

He was refering to someone "buying it week after week", which sounds to me like being habitually or compulsively occupied.

If you don't think pot is addictive, you are either addicted yourself(because denial is a BIG part of addiction), or you are misinformed. It may not make you PHYSICALLY addicted, but it makes you MENTALLY addicted. When I smoked, I felt bored and antsy when I didn't have any bud. I didn't know how to have fun without it. Thats how I was addicted... It's not a heroine addiction where you have spasms when you try to quit, but it IS an addiction.

 

[MrD]

Originally posted by oldi1knoby
Um, that is the sense he was using it. Addiction, in my opinion, is when a person is obsessed with something so much they would put it before something more important.

The dictionary definition : The condition of being habitually or compulsively occupied with or or involved in something.

He was refering to someone "buying it week after week", which sounds to me like being habitually or compulsively occupied.

If you don't think pot is addictive, you are either addicted yourself(because denial is a BIG part of addiction), or you are misinformed. It may not make you PHYSICALLY addicted, but it makes you MENTALLY addicted. When I smoked, I felt bored and antsy when I didn't have any bud. I didn't know how to have fun without it. Thats how I was addicted... It's not a heroine addiction where you have spasms when you try to quit, but it IS an addiction.

Okay, then maybe I interpreted the post wrong.

However, surely you can be "mentally" addicted to most things so I find it hard to see how this is being used as an argument? The word "addiction" is more commonly used to refer to a physical addiction so it easy to understand where people are getting their wires crossed here.

Regardless, I still see it as the choice of the individual concerned.

I also find it worrying that "passive high" seems to be an issue for some people. This is like slipping a pill in somebody's drink, it is a direct health risk and should of course be illegal. I feel the same way about "normal" smokers. Show me a pub that prohibits smoking?

Incedently, I do not use drugs anymore (I don't even drink), but I did try it (canabis) a few times. The sole purpose of my arguments for legalization are based on my beliefs about personal freedom.

 

[Maskirovka]

Originally posted by MrD
Since no-one has answered still, I will ask again :

Why should canabis be illegal to those who would use it responsibly?

Seriously, the "other people might mis-use it" argument is getting old. It is completely irrelevent since other freely available *legal* substances can also be mis-used (and in much worse ways).

Please god, will you stop using the same damn arguments.

100% agree.

having laws that make something illegal just because some people misuse them is the worst possible thing...if you made everything in that category illegal, you'd also have to make the following illegal:

- Cars
- Guns
- Junk food (some people misuse and it causes heart disease and other health problems, which is expensive for the health care system of any country)
- Computers (hacking is misuse!)
- CD/DVD burners
- Sharp things (someone stabbed someone with one sometime!)
- Blunt things (some people use these to smash others)
- Water (drowning is a plague on society!)

you might say i'm getting carried away, but i disagree. where do you stop with that logic? that line gets so fuzzy it's incredible. why have debate after pointless debate about what to make illegal?

let people manage their own lives and punish them when they affect others...don't punish them for using something that others might misuse...it just makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

P.S. to the guy who was talking about the cigarette companies having a hand in keeping the MJ illegal, i bet you're right in a way, but they could also get their hands in it...be the first to mass-produce it for profit...they already have the infrastructure set up, so they'd have a lot to gain, but might be doing it on moral grounds.

 

[Warbie]

MrD wrote:

'Why should canabis be illegal to those who would use it responsibly?'

What's responsible? According to many studies (that I completely disagree with) you can smoke as much as you want without any harm.

I also think i've answered that question. To ppl who use cannabis daily smoking a joint is more like having a cup of coffee/tea/cigarette etc than having a beer. It's like asking someone to drink coffee sensibly.

Ppl need to start thinking of it in these terms because the users who smoke occasionally are in the minority (imo).

 

[Maskirovka]

Originally posted by Warbie
MrD wrote:

'Why should canabis be illegal to those who would use it responsibly?'

What's responsible? According to many studies (that I completely disagree with) you can smoke as much as you want without any harm.

I also think i've answered that question. To ppl who use cannabis daily smoking a joint is more like having a cup of coffee/tea/cigarette etc than having a beer. It's like asking someone to drink coffee sensibly.

Ppl need to start thinking of it in these terms because the users who smoke occasionally are in the minority (imo).

he's talking about using it by yourself, in your own home. irresponsible use of alcohol is when someone drives under the influence or beats their wife or goes nuts in a bar, starting fights.

irresponsible use of marijuana would be along those lines.

he's asking what's one good reason to take it away from Joe Blow who smokes weed all day at his house? what's he doing wrong?

i think you're sort of right when you say that occasional users are in the minority. this may be true at any given time, but i think there are a much larger number of people who have tried marijuana at some time in their lives than people who currently smoke on a regular basis.

===========
by the way, to get the quote thing, you can click the little quote button in the bottom right of someone's post.

 

[Warbie]

//couldn't edit the above post :/

Drugs are as cunning and as smart as the user is, hence why you get ppl of all walks of life using - the responsible and the bums, the smart and dumb. The same ppl who congratulate themselves for using weed sparingly could be regular uses in the blink of an eyelid ...... becasue smoking a joint suddenly becomes nothing special at all - this could happen to anyone.

Maskirovka wrote:

'having laws that make something illegal just because some people misuse them is the worst possible thing'

Sure lets legalise smack, crack, pills and guns woohoo \o/

 

[MrD]

Originally posted by Warbie
MrD wrote:

'Why should canabis be illegal to those who would use it responsibly?'

What's responsible?

I use the word responsible to mean "without harming others" here. I know there will be those who WILL harm others, but I want to know why it should be illegal for those who *dont* harm others.

I again invite someone to answer my question.

 

[Warbie]

Oh - so if they harm themseleves that's ok??

How about the users friends and family who will be distraught when their loved one becomes ill, moody, selfish etc etc. It's never as black and white as that - and never just the user who suffers.

 

[MrD]

Originally posted by Warbie
The same ppl who congratulate themselves for using weed sparingly could be regular uses in the blink of an eyelid ...... becasue smoking a joint suddenly becomes nothing special at all - this could happen to anyone.

Maybe it can happen to anyone, but that does not mean that it will happen. Once again I make the point that if it is not affecting other people then why is Mr Regular User doing anything wrong?

Originally posted by Warbie
Sure lets legalise smack, crack, pills and guns woohoo \o/

Yes lets legalise all of these things.
"guns don't kill people; people kill people".

The logic you are using to ban things simply because they might be harmful to people is flaky at best. Such a "rule" requires a threshold to judge against (since all items can be ultimately used to harm).

Define a threshold?

 

[MrD]

Originally posted by Warbie
Oh - so if they harm themseleves that's ok??

Absolutely, and never any doubt.

I agree the area is grey, but let's ask this:

Am I obligated to continue living my life solely so that those who love me would not be upset? What if I am not happy?

Ultimately this is no different from someone who goes rock-climbing, or rally-driving or any other activity which puts an individual at elevated risk. There are varying degrees of risk, but the choice must be made by the individual. I am not contracted to live for the benifit of those who love me.

 

[crabcakes66]

Originally posted by Warbie
Oh - so if they harm themseleves that's ok??

How about the users friends and family who will be distraught when their loved one becomes ill, moody, selfish etc etc. It's never as black and white as that - and never just the user who suffers.

Yes. if they want to harm themselves it is ok.

...... when a person turns 21.....they have the right to drink themselves to death if they want to......and alot of people do.



Weed is no more harmful than alcohol........ its arguably alot less harmful actaully.


So why can they arrest me for smoking a joint in my own home?.....and its ok to get drunk?

 

[Warbie]

So the effects on users families should be ignored and we should legalise everything?

Don't start getting all logical in this argument (never thought i'd say that). Things are rapidly getting flushed down the toilet all over the world - we need practical solutions, not debates on ethics and morals.

What good is spouting out that "guns don't kill people; people kill people" when ppl in the US are getting gunned down everyday? Anyway - it's "people with guns who kill people" quite a difference.

 

[Warbie]

Because crabcakes66 it was in answer to MrDs question 'if it only hurts the user, what's the prob' ......... the simple answer is - it's never just the user who's effected.

 

[crabcakes66]

Originally posted by Warbie
So the effects on users families should be ignored and we should legalise everything?

Ive already heard this arguement........ It doesnt work......




Why is it (your) decison where to draw the line?

This is supposed to be a "free" country......


.....by your arguement then we should make alcohol illegal.......we should stop driving motor vehicles or flying in airplanes.....we should live in plastic bubbles.......

we should not enjoy life we should not experiment.........we should waste the short amount of time we get trying to conform to what you think is right and wrong?

 

[MrD]

Originally posted by Warbie
So the effects on users families should be ignored and we should legalise everything?

Don't start getting all logical in this argument (never thought i'd say that). Things are rapidly getting flushed down the toilet all over the world - we need practical solutions, not debates on ethics and morals.

What good is spouting out that "guns don't kill people; people kill people" when ppl in the US are getting gunned down everyday? Anyway - it's "people with guns who kill people" quite a difference.

If it wasn't a gun it would be a knife. And if it wasn't a knife it would be a broken bottle. Now I assume that by your argument, we shall ban bottles?

Yes the world is going down the toilet, but it is lack of education that is causing it. And making things illegal certainly isn't helping matters.

 

[MrD]

We both have the same goal: to "stop everything going down the toilet".

The trouble is you have an opinion on how to fix things, and I have an opinion on how to fix things. Who is right? I don't know... but I do know this: My method does not presume to tell people how to run their lives.

End of argument.

 

[Maskirovka]

Originally posted by MrD
We both have the same goal: to "stop everything going down the toilet".

The trouble is you have an opinion on how to fix things, and I have an opinion on how to fix things. Who is right? I don't know... but I do know this: My method does not presume to tell people how to run their lives.

End of argument.

MrD wins the prize.

the point is, you're taking away choice from adults who are able to make decisions about their own lives.

if i choose to do something that makes my family unhappy, that's my choice. who are you to tell me that i made the wrong choice? it's none of your business.

i mean, c'mon warbie, don't you see how you're trying to tell people what to do? and how that's wrong?

 

[Warbie]

crabcakes66 wrote:

'.....by your arguement then we should make alcohol illegal.......we should stop driving motor vehicles or flying in airplanes.....we should live in plastic bubbles.......'

Not true, i'm just talking about weed here. If it's legalised I honestly beleive more ppl are going to be harmed ......... do we really need anymore?

MrD wrote:

'If it wasn't a gun it would be a knife. And if it wasn't a knife it would be a broken bottle. Now I assume that by your argument, we shall ban bottles?'

I don't agree .... it's easier to kill someone with a gun, far less personal and in your face than with a knife. I beleive in many, many cases confrontations would have resulted in a good old fashioned punch up - instead of someone just whiping out a gun and ending it there.

That's why the ratio of muders to ppl is much higher in the US than say in Europe (all IMO of course, and I appologise for going off topic)

 

[Maskirovka]

Originally posted by Warbie
So the effects on users families should be ignored and we should legalise everything?

Don't start getting all logical in this argument (never thought i'd say that). Things are rapidly getting flushed down the toilet all over the world - we need practical solutions, not debates on ethics and morals.

What good is spouting out that "guns don't kill people; people kill people" when ppl in the US are getting gunned down everyday? Anyway - it's "people with guns who kill people" quite a difference.

my "practical solution" is not to debate ethics and morals. it is to put the blame for societal problems squarely on the shoulders of the society, where it belongs.

you're trying to fix problems by making things illegal. you're trying to treat the symptoms of a bigger problem. it's like trying to give someone an aspirin who's dying of a brain tumor. you need to get down to the reasons why people use drugs in the first place...

============

and i couldn't disagree more with your "people with guns who kill people" difference.

you're saying that there's no other method of killing? i can kill with my bare hands...so "people with hands who kill people" becomes the new statement by your logic.

this makes absolutely no logical sense. if i have the desire to kill someone and i go so far as to act on it, i'll do it with whatever means are at my disposal.

you think if you took guns away from gangs that they wouldn't just get into fist/knife fights? ok sure guns more easily cause innocent bystander deaths, but there are many legitimate uses for guns that don't involve killing people.

 

[Warbie]

I believe what i'm saying - and don't think i've told anyone what do do (soz if that's not true)

ppl are idiots MrD - we need laws and restrictions. I feel so strongly on this subject because it is very close to home ....... it's easy to be subjective when standing on the 'outside'.

I know the root of the problem is lack of education .... but ppl are idiots, and always will be. You don't give a kid a knife the same way you shouldn't allow anyone to have a gun.

This whole freedom of choice is getting ridiculous. It's time we all started taking responsibility for our actions - which includes doing nothing about the problems.

 

[Maskirovka]

Originally posted by Warbie
crabcakes66 wrote:
I honestly beleive more ppl are going to be harmed ......... do we really need anymore?

I beleive in many, many cases confrontations would have resulted in a good old fashioned punch up - instead of someone just whiping out a gun and ending it there.

That's why the ratio of muders to ppl is much higher in the US than say in Europe (all IMO of course, and I appologise for going off topic)

opinion has no place in trying to find "practical solutions"

your opinion doesn't solve problems. you believing something to be true doesn't make it true, it just makes you less able to see the real reason for things.

gun deaths are higher in the US not because we have guns, but because we have people who want to kill other people. it's a societal problem, not a gun problem.

just like substance abuse is a personal problem, not a substance problem.

 

[Maskirovka]

Originally posted by Warbie
I believe what i'm saying - and don't think i've told anyone what do do (soz if that's not true)

ppl are idiots MrD - we need laws and restrictions. I feel so strongly on this subject because it is very close to home ....... it's easy to be subjective when standing on the 'outside'.

I know the root of the problem is lack of education .... but ppl are idiots, and always will be. You don't give a kid a knife the same way you shouldn't allow anyone to have a gun.

This whole freedom of choice is getting ridiculous. It's time we all started taking responsibility for our actions - which includes doing nothing about the problems.

taking responsibility for your actions is exactly why we don't need more restrictions

you just contradicted yourself...you're saying we need more laws, but then you're saying people need to take more responsibility for their own actions in the same breath...that doesn't make sense.

you can't teach people to take responsibility for their own actions by telling them what to do.

 

[Warbie]

Me vs the world

Practical solutions is what's needed Maskirovka .......... invading Iraq was a practical solution. Take away the guns and ppl will stop being shot (I don't beleive that ppl will just 'kill with their bare hands instead' - read one of my previous posts)

Sure the problem is in the society - so take away the guns and then sort it out (this isn't brain science)