What's your stance on Child Spanking?

[15357]

It's wrong for schools or whatever to issue physical punishment.

Human beings are, while being fragile, very... resilient. They bounce right back. Besides, how can you say that one thing is moral or not? It's not like they shoot the students.

Holy shit, you used to get to beat people

Doesn't mean that we did though. Might lead to very tedious paperwork, you see.

 

[Zeus]

Used to happen to me, only with a belt. It's a very stupid way of enforcing discipline, why not just ground the kid or send them to their room? Instead of hitting them and making bruises. hopefully it's gonna just fade away into the past and be made illegal (its child abuse if you ask me)

 

[DEATHMASTER]

neutral

 

[15357]

Used to happen to me, only with a belt. It's a very stupid way of enforcing discipline, why not just ground the kid or send them to their room? Instead of hitting them and making bruises. hopefully it's gonna just fade away into the past and be made illegal (its child abuse if you ask me)

Going to one's room is a punishment?

What?

What?

What?

 

[K e r b e r o s]

IMO, if you need to resort to physical violence to get your children to behave, then you either have a pretty messed up kid, or are a pretty poor parent tbh.

And how can you gauge this, given that your probably not one?

 

[Reaktor4]

Smacking your kids means youre a failure as a parent and shouldnt have been allowed to reproduce.

 

[CptStern]

And how can you gauge this, given that your probably not one?

conversely:

And how can you gauge it isnt?, given that your probably not one [parent]?


I am a parent ..and I agree with his statement

 

[>>FrEnZy<<]

totally against all that bottom spanking stuff, but in reality, to get your children to respect you without violence is not very easy.

What I wonder is how effective violence is as a method of getting your children to respect you?

I polled slighty negative, but after reading the posts I wish I had polled moderatly negative.

I think another extremely large issues is how incredibly spoilt and disrespectful children are to their parents today, and I can at the very least appreciate a parents need to resort to violence. It's not so much bad parenting as it is desperate parenting.

What do you think spoils children so much nowadays?

 

[Raziaar]

What do you think spoils children so much nowadays?

The fact that parents are letting their kids walk all over them and everybody else... and trying to let them live more adult lives, and being their friends rather than parents.

 

[>>FrEnZy<<]

ahh Raziaar, I COMPLETELY agree with you.

I would also criticize media and culture however. I mean it really really isnt easy to not let your kids walk all over you. You have to be a monster of a parent sometimes because of how much influence american culture has over children, and thats so hard for parents to do.

 

[Absinthe]

My father used to spank me when I was little. I've even been raised off the floor by the hair on my head, and pinned against the wall, and given physical threats. I even had a wonderful moment where, after shitting myself, my penis was actually cut open from the friction against his jeans when he decided to do a little paddlin' over his knee since I was apparently too dumb to control my bladder. What did I learn from these experiences?

That I'm shit scared of dad.

I didn't stop doing things because I felt they were wrong or that I had learned the error of my ways. I stopped because I was frightened that my father would hurt me. Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not detecting any great moral lesson in that.
My mother, on the other hand, didn't have to resort to physical force. On the contrary, she'd just take things from me like the SNES, the toys, or whatever. If I was whining and hollering, she made it absolutely clear there was no way in Hell I'd have my demands met. And she always took the time to explain why what I did was wrong. Not that my father didn't, but the fear of his hand often overshadowed any of the reasoning behind it.

Contrary to what some of you may think, not spanking your child does not equate to letting your child walk all over you. Far from it. You just need to be able to discipline your child without the use of violence. That might be more difficult, but it's also probably more worthwhile.

 

[>>FrEnZy<<]

yeh you're right.

 

[Llama]

Smacking your kids means youre a failure as a parent and shouldnt have been allowed to reproduce.

Thanks for that.
I'll remember to tell my dad that he's a failure once I become a Barrister isntead of a MacDonalds worker.
"Dad, thanks to you teaching me some disipline, i'm ****ing rich! Damn you to hell"


@ Absinthe: Your father was a ****ing idiot. Giving a child a little smack for something wrong (that they have already been verbally warned about) and spanking you ( due to something you cant control) until your penis is cut is completly different. I actually feel ill after reading that.

 

[Absinthe]

Maybe he was. You still haven't illuminated me as to how spanking accomplishes anything other than instilling fear in the child. That you automatically associate discipline with physical force goes to show just how narrow your view on the subject already is, which is a real shame.

That's rich, Llama. I didn't realize that physically harming your children was a gateway to success, whereas not doing so relegates you to fast food restaurants. Tell me, do you have any divine reasoning behind this crock of shit?

 

[Solaris]

The key point here is that there are far more effective ways to discipline a child than physical violence.

 

[Llama]

Maybe he was. You still haven't illuminated me as to how spanking accomplishes anything other than instilling fear in the child. That you automatically associate discipline with physical force goes to show just how narrow your view on the subject already is, which is a real shame.

That's rich, Llama. I didn't realize that physically harming your children was a gateway to success, whereas not doing so relegates you to fast food restaurants. Tell me, do you have any divine reasoning behind this crock of shit?

Smacking hardly constitutes as pyhsical harm, If it does, then its not just a smack is it? (Infact, come to mention it, im against spanking a child, but not slapping a child.) Abuse by a parent and discipline by a parent are different things.

Install fear? Bullshit. I'm not scared of my parents at all. However, I soon learned that doing something that was wrong on purpose would result in feeling very uncomftorble. Guess how many times I've done something bad on purpose due to that.

Narrow view? How is your view any broader than mine? We both think different things and i'm prepared to bet niether of us will change our opinions on the matter.
You think it is wrong based on a negative experience, I think it is good based on my own behaivour relative to the punishment.

Solaris: Got any personal proof of this?

Also, Absinthe: When I made that comparison, I didnt mean it literally ffs. I was making a point, the point of question being that not only does my dad hit me, but is one of the best people I know. Do I think it means succes? Of course not, but I think it gets a message across.

 

[kirovman]

However, shouting at a kid can also instill a lot of fear.

I remember being smacked and shouted/lectured at. I didn't care about the smacking, but I was fearful of the shouting.

Ban shouting?

 

[CptStern]

yes

I dont shout at my kids

shouting can be verbal abuse and is often a sign that the parent is taking their frustration out on the kid


also people shouldnt look towards their own upbringing as an example ..when we were babies we didnt have baby seats for cars, babies still slept on their stomachs, and SIDS wasnt a recognised cause of death. My dad slapped me around but it doesnt mean I'll do the same to my kids ...times change


Llama: I think it's wrong and I have direct experience both impersonal (I was a teacher for 7 years) and personal (I'm a parent)

 

[brink's]

Also, giving ur child a few swift pats on the bottom because he misbehaved and beating the shit out of them( for any reason) are two completely different things.

Spanking shouldn't be used to the extreme, nor should it be a parents only form of punishment. it should fit in with grounding, no desert, go to bed early, taking away toys etc etc. My point is make sure your children know the consequences of their actions.

 

[Llama]

Stern: Or perhaps it's a good way of making an older child listen.

Just think of this, if all our grandparents were smacked and shouted out, why havent they all turned out to be complete nutters?

As long as there is a balance of understanding, and rules are cleary explained and definded, punishment upon purposeful (malicous) breaking of those rules should be handed out.
Basically, what brink's said.

 

[Solaris]

Heres a real key point.

To thoose of you who used to get hit and are now teenage, or were and are no longer hit. Why do you think your dad no longer spanks you when you do something bad? I would presume its becuase you would hit back, I sure would.
Now, if you hit back, are you justified in hitting back? If you think you are, then it was wrong for him to hit you. Now then, why is okay to only hit thoose who cannot hit back. Would it be okay to hit a disabled teenager if he was bad? Why when a child gets older does physical discipline no longer become acceptable?

Also, le source @ lama

Edit:
And Lama

Just think of this, if all our grandparents were smacked and shouted out, why havent they all turned out to be complete nutters?

I fail to see how this justifys anything. I could punch someone in the face, in 10 years time it might have no effect on them, doesn't make it an acceptable thing however.

 

[Llama]

Heres a real key point.

To thoose of you who used to get hit and are now teenage, or were and are no longer hit. Why do you think your dad no longer spanks you when you do something bad? I would presume its becuase you would hit back, I sure would.
Now, if you hit back, are you justified in hitting back? If you think you are, then it was wrong for him to hit you. Now then, why is okay to only hit thoose who cannot hit back. Would it be okay to hit a disabled teenager if he was bad? Why when a child gets older does physical discipline no longer become acceptable?

Also, le source @ lama

That argument would work if it wasnt for he fact I still get a good smack to the back of the head if I misbehave badly, and i'm neither disabled (incapable of retaliation) or violent (a person the retaliates).

 

[Solaris]

That argument would work if it wasnt for he fact I still get a good smack to the back of the head if I misbehave badly, and i'm neither disabled (incapable of retaliation) or violent (a person the retaliates).

And you don't mind that?
If anyone hits me I hit back.
I am a concious human being, and know-one has the right to hit me becuase I don't obey to how they think I should.

 

[brink's]

Heres a real key point.

To thoose of you who used to get hit and are now teenage, or were and are no longer hit. Why do you think your dad no longer spanks you when you do something bad? I would presume its becuase you would hit back, I sure would.
Now, if you hit back, are you justified in hitting back? If you think you are, then it was wrong for him to hit you. Now then, why is okay to only hit thoose who cannot hit back. Would it be okay to hit a disabled teenager if he was bad? Why when a child gets older does physical discipline no longer become acceptable?

Because there are much more effective ways of disciplining a teenager, no computer, no tv, no friends, no going out, no seeing ur Girlfriend, no cellphone. etc etc.......believe me i would much rather take a few palms to the ass then get punished by any of these things.

 

[Solaris]

Because there are much more effective ways of disaplining a teenager, no computer, no tv, no friends, no going out, no seeing ur Girlfriend, no cellphone. etc etc.......believe me i would much rather take a few palms to the ass then get punished by any of these things. Not to mention once they hit around 12(years old) spanking becomes a joke.

You don't think you can take away a childs ball?

 

[Llama]

And you don't mind that?
If anyone hits me I hit back.
I am a concious human being, and know-one has the right to hit me becuase I don't obey to how they think I should.

Of course I mind it.
That's why it works.
Bad behaivour = pain, so instead of hitting my 6"3 parent back, I stop doing the thing which results in the pain. Thus, parents happy (because child is behaving), and im happy (Because good deeds warrent rewards)

 

[Solaris]

Of course I mind it.
That's why it works.
Bad behaivour = pain, so instead of hitting my 6"3 parent back, I stop doing the thing which results in the pain. Thus, parents happy (because child is behaving), and im happy (Because good deeds warrent rewards)

Well why are you arguing for it if you don't like it?
There are far more effective means of punishment that have less undesired consequences as you can see in the article I linked to.

 

[CptStern]

Stern: Or perhaps it's a good way of making an older child listen.

no it's not in fact in older children it has the opposite effect

Just think of this, if all our grandparents were smacked and shouted out, why havent they all turned out to be complete nutters?

well probably for the same reasons why video games only seem to make a small segment of society do bad things. Anyways kids are not just affected in that way, they can have low self esteem/self worth, they could become introverted, they could have problems dealing with others, anger issues etc etc

look I've seen the worst of the worst of child care ..in almost every case the worst of the kids had strict discipline (they were spanked)

As long as there is a balance of understanding, and rules are cleary explained and definded, punishment upon purposeful (malicous) breaking of those rules should be handed out.
Basically, what brink's said.

I'm sorry you feel that way but it's completely wrong and doesnt work in practice (are you going to explain why he's being hit, while he's being hit? do you expect a 6 year old to remember every rule?) ..the child doesnt learn the consequences from misbehaving ..all he learns is to fear the punishment. Children are not dogs ..the pavlov method does not work because we can reason with children ..failing to reason is not an excuse to mete out punishment

 

[Llama]

Because whether or not I like the punishment, I believe that it does me good. I get things confiscated aswell, I get lectured aswell, Im punished in pretty much every way. I agree with each method of punishment

 

[CptStern]

but you didnt like the pain now did you?



so if you have kids of your own will you instill that same method of discipline? are you ok with the fact that your child may not like how spanking makes him feel?

 

[brink's]

I'm sorry you feel that way but it's completely wrong and doesnt work in practice (are you going to explain why he's being hit, while he's being hit? do you expect a 6 year old to remember every rule?) ..the child doesnt learn the consequences from misbehaving ..all he learns is to fear the punishment. Children are not dogs ..the pavlov method does not work because we can reason with children ..failing to reason is not an excuse to mete out punishment

Technically won't any punishment teach the child to "FEAR PUNISHMENT", i fail to see how a few swift pats on the bottom and not being able to play with ones favorite toy(anything) are so extremely different and either way he/she is going to be fear the consequences of their negative actions.

but you didnt like the pain now did you?



so if you have kids of your own will you instill that same method of discipline? are you ok with the fact that your child may not like how spanking makes him feel?

I wasn't too fond of how not being able to use my comp for over a week felt....but i got through it.


And I was never any more scared of a spanking then i was bring grounded etc..they were all equal punishments in my household and they were all very effective. Not spanking/yelling at your child when he/she has clearly done something wrong is a very sheltered approach to raising a child IMO

 

[Llama]

no it's not in fact in older children it has the opposite effect

Well, works for me

well probably for the same reasons why video games only seem to make a small segment of society do bad things. Anyways kids are not just affected in that way, they can have low self esteem/self worth, they could become introverted, they could have problems dealing with others, anger issues etc etc

But if its a small segment, then that means the punishment works as a large scale thing.

look I've seen the worst of the worst of child care ..in almost every case the worst of the kids had strict discipline (they were spanked)

There is a difference between strict discipline and poor child care.

I'm sorry you feel that way but it's completely wrong and doesnt work in practice (are you going to explain why he's being hit, while he's being hit? do you expect a 6 year old to remember every rule?) ..the child doesnt learn the consequences from misbehaving ..all he learns is to fear the punishment. Children are not dogs ..the pavlov method does not work because we can reason with children ..failing to reason is not an excuse to mete out punishment

No of course not. Again, im not speaking in a 100% literal way. I dont believe a 6 year old should be smacked full stop. A nine year old, maybe, not a six year old. A child should be taught what it right and wrong. Then told off when he/she does something wrong, and told why.

THEN, if the child continues, LIGHT smacking.

Also, the child does learn the consequences of the action. The consequence is a slap. Again, this is my personal experience as a child against yours as a parent.

but you didnt like the pain now did you?

so if you have kids of your own will you instill that same method of discipline? are you ok with the fact that your child may not like how spanking makes him feel?

Yep.
If it was painless it would be futile.

 

[CptStern]

Technically won't any punishment teach the child to "FEAR PUNISHMENT", i fail to see how a few swift pats on the bottom and not being able to play with ones favorite toy(anything) are so extremely different and either way he/she is going to be fear the consequences of their negative actions.

I wasn't too found of how not being able to use my comp for over a week felt....but i got through it.


And IMO I was never any more scared of a spanking then i was bring grounded etc..they were all equal punishments in my household and they were all very effective. Not spanking/yelling at your child when he/she has clearly done something wrong is a very sheltered approach to raising a child IMO

no, because when you rationalise with a child it's not punishment because you're not being punitive

example:

my son taks a bath but never wants to get out (he's almost 3) ..most people would just say "ok it's time to get out" and then pull him out ..which will lead to a huge outburst which will take time to rectify

however what I do is say "son it's time to get out now, can you take out the stopper for the bathtub" ..and without fail every single time he says "ok daddy"


see what I did there? the first scenario I gave him no choice "daddy says it's time to get out and you're getting out whether you like it or not"

the second scenario gives him the illusion that he's choosing to get out by participating in it

Well, works for me

how do you know it does? did you ever disobey your parents even though you knew that the punishment would be pain?

btw you prove my point ..you're conditioned to fear the pain

But if its a small segment, then that means the punishment works as a large scale thing.

logical fallacy ..you'd have no way of proving that

There is a difference between strict discipline and poor child care.

they're one and the same ..they always appear together

No of course not. Again, im not speaking in a 100% literal way. I dont believe a 6 year old should be smacked full stop. A nine year old, maybe, not a six year old. A child should be taught what it right and wrong. Then told off when he/she does something wrong, and told why.

THEN, if the child continues, LIGHT smacking.

what about a 2 year old? a LIGHTER smacking? you'd think by the age of 6 he'd have learned ..why does the same behaviour reoccur? obviously he hasnt learned anything from being smacked because the lesson itself was "fear the pain" not "dont do this because of x reasons"

Also, the child does learn the consequences of the action. The consequence is a slap.

but not the reason for the slap

Again, this is my personal experience as a child against yours as a parent.

well to be fair I was a child once and my dad smacked me around (no worse than any other parent) ..but I ****ing hated the sight of him till I was in my mid 20's ..in fact he once joked that he'd smack my neice and my younger brother (her father) got up and yelled in his face "you ever do that and I'll rearrange your face" ..he then sat down looking bewildered wondering where his pent up rage came from (hmmm I wonder where?) ...he eventually apologised

Yep.
If it was painless it would be futile.

again you're admitting that the pain is the lesson

 

[brink's]

.......I'm not saying you should resort to yelling/spanking in every scenario, especially one as insignificant as getting out of the bath, infact I'm saying it should only be used when its really called for, you won't be able to "trick" your child forever and sooner or later your going to have to become an authority figure.

And what happens when he eventually says " im staying anyway"

 

[CptStern]

.......I'm not saying you should resort to yelling/spanking in every scenario, especially one as insignificant as getting out of the bath, infact I'm saying it should only be used when its really called for, you won't be able to "trick" your child forever and sooner or later your going to have to become an authority figure.

of course but by then I'll use other stragedies ..you cant use reasoning with a toddler

And what happens when he eventually says " im staying anyway"

well then I take away his choice by saying "we gotta get ready for bed, son, do you want daddy to take out the stopper?" ..and he'll immediately say "No I do" and then waits for me to take him out

see the problem with most parents is that they see everything as a fight ..it's all about authority ..well eventually the person starts to fight back and will rebel against authority ..no the best way is to involve your children in their own upbringing by teaching him why the right choice IS the right choice ..not because he may get spanked

 

[Solaris]

QFT.
Stern knows his stuff.

 

[DeusExMachina]

see the problem with most parents is that they see everything as a fight ..it's all about authority ..well eventually the person starts to fight back and will rebel against authority ..no the best way is to involve your children in their own upbringing by teaching him why the right choice IS the right choice ..not because he may get spanked

Makes sense. My parents never explained why the right choice was the right choice, just punished me.

 

[CptStern]

well I'm lucky that I was a teacher and also that my wife is a behavioural therapist

believe me there are times when spanking would be the easy quick solution ..but as parents we cant take the easy way out

 

[Absinthe]

People talk about spanking "only when it's called for".

I'd like them to give some scenarios where it is called for. Spilling paint in the garage? Using a foul word?

 

[brink's]

First off, let me say, i think you guys have got me all wrong, i think spanking should be the absolute limit in disciplining a child( meaning no other hittig AT ALL), nor do i think it should be used excessively.

see the problem with most parents is that they see everything as a fight ..it's all about authority ..well eventually the person starts to fight back and will rebel against authority ..no the best way is to involve your children in their own upbringing by teaching him why the right choice IS the right choice ..not because he may get spanked

I do agree with you on this.... im just saying it amoung others can be effective.Sometimes kids rebel either way...what then? Authority in a childs life isn't neccessarily a bad thing.

People talk about spanking "only when it's called for".

I'd like them to give some scenarios where it is called for. Spilling paint in the garage? Using a foul word?

Nowhere have i said "when i child makes a mistake, spank him" but when he repeatedly does something he knows is wrong..and all other forms dont work. I REPEAT: dont hit your child for making a mistake