Why I am excited for the Wii <-- Best thread, honest

[Bad^Hat]

I'm gonna go ahead and say I don't care too much about the graphics (by which I mean raw technical power) as long as the gameplay holds up. What I'm looking for in gaming right now is something fresh and different to hold my attention, and Wii looks like it. I have my moderately-powerful PC and a 360 for pretty much everything else anyway.

However! I won't deny the graphics are noticeably outdated in some games, mostly the third party ones it seems, and it does bug me a little. Especially since Zelda, which is effectively a Gamecube game, looks far better than alot of the titles being made for Wii (a few of which I think could almost pass for Playstation 1 games).

That said, Mario and Metroid still look awesome, and Red Steel aint all that bad, so there's promise. I think once we get into some post-launch games, and other devs really start pushing the hardware, we'll see some pretty decent looking stuff.

As it stands though, Nintendo is aiming for the casual market, most of whom aren't drawn to graphically superior or deeper games. As I see it, they want an experience that's fun, intuitive, and which they can get something out of from the moment they pick it up till the moment they put it down, whether for 10 minutes or 2 hours.

In my opinion the Big N are extremely smart going after this as-yet largely untapped market, and they're gonna make a mint. Furthermore, I find the launch price very reasonable, both for console and controllers. Keep in mind you're not paying just for the graphics hardware ("an updated Gamecube"), the system is capable of alot more than gaming after all. Plus they're throwing in a game (Wii Sports), which I don't think has been done since... Alex the Kidd? :|

 

[Cormeh]

Zelda, which is effectively a Gamecube game, looks far better than alot of the titles being made for Wii

I couldn't believe my eyes when I first saw TP, jaw-dropping. Nintendo just know how to get the best out of their systems. So much promise for the next Zelda game, which will be an entirely new take on the series apparently.

which I don't think has been done since... Alex the Kidd? :|

lol master system 2.

 

[Cube]

Play.com have sold all of their launch-day Wii's in 9 days

 

[-Psy-]

This 480i thingy...Could I run the Wii on my old 17" monitor?

 

[Reginald]

Play.com has sold out. :O I better get pre-ordering. Eep.

EDIT: Official Red Steel box-art.

 

[Warbie]

I ordered one from Gameplay yesterday and am going to hedge my bets and import one from VG+ too. Wiis for everyone \o/

 

[Stigmata]

Art style > technical prowess, to a point.

Once the technology behind the art becomes so slow and buggy that the art becomes either a slideshow or a trainwreck of graphical bugs, then and ONLY then shall you preach to me the ways of photorealistic graphics.

 

[WhiteZero]

Play.com has sold out. :O I better get pre-ordering. Eep.

EDIT: Official Red Steel box-art.

Man.. it's only T for Teen?
D:

 

[Reginald]

There's no blood.

 

[Warbie]

There's none in Golden Eye either - it still looks and feels like you're shooting someone more than 99% of fps, with or without blood.

 

[smwScott]

Where, it certainly looked and felt a lot better in Perfect Dark. Much more satisfying. And for the record, Goldeneye did have bloody marks appear where you shot them, just didn't have blood sprays.

Red Steel looks crappy IMO. I mean ... a T rated Yakuza game focusing on swordplay?

 

[Warbie]

Red Steel looks crappy IMO. I mean ... a T rated Yakuza game focusing on swordplay?

That's one thing we agree on - not that the rating has any bearing, but I think it looks pretty crappy too.

 

[Cole]

Who said gfx>gameplay? I sure didn't and I don't hold that opinion. WoW is fine , I wish Wii games looked like that - they look worse. The example of Starfact is irrelevant. The point is that I expect from 06-07 games to have 06-07 gfx , and this isn't the case with the Wii. I would have no issue if the gfx were on the level 0f 04-05 but that's again isn't the case with the Wii.

I expect 06-07 games to have 06-07 gameplay. I expect that gameplay to be 2 - 3 times better than the old generation gameplay. Nintendo can actually do this.

I have a problem with a console , which isn't even realeased , display gfx that belong to 2-3 years ago - A "next gen" console. I except them to at least have graphics that's up par to present games.

How come you don't expect "next gen" consoles to have "next gen" gameplay? If you say you do well then obviously as gameplay > graphics x 10 therefor because the Wii has next gen gameplay means a hell of a lot more than next gen graphics you should be complaining about the Ps3 and Xbox 360.

The example of Starfact is irrelevant.

How is the example of Starcraft irrelevant? 256 Color Graphics. Fun Game even today.

 

[Tamer17]

Because Starcraft at it's time had good gfx and people who are playing iit now don't do it becuase of it's gfx.

However , from a next gen console , I want proper graphics as well. And what's next gen gamplay? waving and making gestures in place of just pressing a button? that has no effect on gameplay or tha quality of the games. It's like playing D3 with headphones , the experience is better but that doesn't change the game from being crap.

I still don't understand how is the wii mote less intimidating that reguler controller. Even people who never touched video game have been exposed to them through cultural influences - video games appear on movies and on tv shows , so people have a slight clue of the nature of how you play - you hold a controller with two hands and press buttons. How the wiimote is less frighting to them? they never seen something like this , all they get is that you have to wave , twist and turn the wiimote and put some effort playing it , which is not at all what working fathers need from a game and not at all what grandpa can manage.

Even if they cross that hurdle , I still see no effect on gameplay , becuase all can be done by a press of a button instead of some movement with the wiimote and the player.

I really don't want to get into an argument about the Wii. On-topic , they need to showcase better visuals quickly.

 

[Warbie]

Even if they cross that hurdle , I still see no effect on gameplay , becuase all can be done by a press of a button instead of some movement with the wiimote and the player.

No effect on gameplay!?

Watching the simple golf game that comes with wii sports convinced me how much more immediate and enjoyable playing a golf game (i'm a big fan of golf games) on the wii could be. No longer a case of simply pushing a button or nudging an analogue stick to set the shot power, you have to swing the wiimote at the right speed. Not only does this make gameplay considerably more involved, the affordance offered by the wiimote become obvious - it becomes a golf club in your hand in a way a joypad or mouse could never be. It also becomes a drumstick, a gun, a sword, a fishing rod, a scalpel ..... or simply a pointer.

The difference with the wii remote is obvious - i'm beginging to think you're disagreeing for the sake of it.

I still don't understand how is the wii mote less intimidating that reguler controller.

You mentioned having no interest in the casual/non gamer in a previous post, this statement confirms it. You obviously have very little experience with them fullstop.

I've handed quite a few people (usually girls or adults in the 30's-50's) a joypad only for them to stare at it dumbly - trying to work out which of the 10+ buttons or funny stick things they need push to make the little guy on the screen do something.

How the wiimote is less frighting to them?

Using a pad creates a barrier between the player and the game that many people find too complex (or have no desire) to break through. Some of my friends will happily pick up a light gun to play House of the Dead, shake maracas with Samba, bash drums with Donkey Konga, wave a fishing rod around with Bass Fishing, and wiggle like idiots on a dance mat to DDR, but turn their nose up to using a pad with more conventional titles.

We grew up gaming - gradually moving from a single d-pad and 2 buttons to the (overly) complex devices we use today. The fact is, the simpler a tool is to use the more powerful it is - and this is what the wii is trying to achieve.

they need to showcase better visuals quickly.

Not really. The wii seems to be selling very well as is (see Play.com selling out after just 9 days)

 

[Tamer17]

Let me correcet myself , it does change gameplay but i don't think for the better.

True , the wiimote does involve the player more in the game but I ask my self - does that make for better games? I don't think so. I don't know about you , I just don't want to move my body when I play games. Mimicing swinging , throwing , waving can get very tiresome and exhausting to some point + playing while standing - I don't think thats a good idea for the long run.

Secondly , there's the issue of the learning curve - how much power should i apply to the swing i take and all that's connected to precision. It could take a while to get the right ammounts , instead of just pressing a button and stop the meter. Moreover , who knows , maybe different games will have different "sensitivities" and you'll have to re-work all your wiimote actions.

This kind of involvment is also daunting for causual gamer - if i'm a working grown-up , i come from work , i am pretty tired to start motion-playing with the Wii. I agree that mimicing actions like you were really playing is more welcoming for casual gamers but it's also tiring and some pople won't be able to physically make them - like older people and elders - which seems to be what is Nintendo going for as well.
There's also the issue of time , if i plan to go out with firends and i wait for them to arrive and i decide to pass the time playing a quick game , i'll hate having to break a sweat and "get into the game" (like the ads. of Wii show) , or it will just ruin your clothes after you spent a time to dress up and be ready.

That's why I don't see the Wii as a equation of involvment = better games. If a game is good , then it's good. Whether I'm pressing a button or going through the motion. In fact , the wiimote could take away from the game because of reason I posted earlier in the post.

Another point is that , at least , in the first month , we'll have alot of gimmick-ridden games with the wiimote , as we see right now with the conducting game and Wii Sports - which there main benefiet is to mess around with the wii and see how it reacts , in place of making a good , all around game. It could be great fun , no doubt , but those kind of games don't do it for me , plus , the issued i mentioned will start catching up.

As far as the full blown games , if they are good they are good - with any controller type. Like I said , I still havn't been shown why a game where you act like swinging a swords , makes the game itself - the gameplay , better than just pressing a button to swing the sword.

Like the Doom3 + headphones example. Does it make you more involved with the game? Yes. Does it make the game significantly better? No.
Does the controller of the Wii guaranties better games or gameplay? I don't think so. In fact , i think in time it will damage the games , design wise and experience wise.

 

[Danimal]

True , the wiimote does involve the player more in the game but I ask my self - does that make for better games?

You just answered your own question.

I don't think so. I don't know about you , I just don't want to move my body when I play games. Mimicing swinging , throwing , waving can get very tiresome and exhausting to some point + playing while standing - I don't think thats a good idea for the long run.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the Wiimote's... Wiiness is optional and a normal controller can be used (But I see your point to a small extent.)

Secondly , there's the issue of the learning curve - how much power should i apply to the swing i take and all that's connected to precision. It could take a while to get the right ammounts , instead of just pressing a button and stop the meter. Moreover , who knows , maybe different games will have different "sensitivities" and you'll have to re-work all your wiimote actions.

The senstivity on most PS2 or xBox analog sticks are harder to use for those type of meters compared to a Wiimote, because a Wiimote can be more precise when it comes to the swing. (If you don't believe me try and aim a sniper rifle in most PS2 games, a tiny nudge of the analog stick and WOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!)

This kind of involvment is also daunting for causual gamer - if i'm a working grown-up , i come from work , i am pretty tired to start motion-playing with the Wii. I agree that mimicing actions like you were really playing is more welcoming for casual gamers but it's also tiring and some pople won't be able to physically make them - like older people and elders - which seems to be what is Nintendo going for as well.

There's also the issue of time , if i plan to go out with firends and i wait for them to arrive and i decide to pass the time playing a quick game , i'll hate having to break a sweat and "get into the game" (like the ads. of Wii show) , or it will just ruin your clothes after you spent a time to dress up and be ready.

That's why I don't see the Wii as a equation of involvment = better games. If a game is good , then it's good. Whether I'm pressing a button or going through the motion. In fact , the wiimote could take away from the game because of reason I posted earlier in the post.

Like I said before, I think the Wiimotion is optional. Or you could just not play the Wii if it dosen't suit you. :S

Another point is that , at least , in the first month , we'll have alot of gimmick-ridden games with the wiimote , as we see right now with the conducting game and Wii Sports - which there main benefiet is to mess around with the wii and see how it reacts , in place of making a good , all around game. It could be great fun , no doubt , but those kind of games don't do it for me , plus , the issued i mentioned will start catching up.

Not every Wii game will take advantage of the motion sensors, for example, Super Smash Brothers: Brawl (Holy shit, could you imagine having to use the Wiimote for that? D

As far as the full blown games , if they are good they are good - with any controller type. Like I said , I still havn't been shown why a game where you act like swinging a swords , makes the game itself - the gameplay , better than just pressing a button to swing the sword.

The Wiimote will most likely be a big factor in immersion for games, and immersion can help alot with gameplay. But once again I refer to the Wiimote's motion-thingy being optional (But if i'm wrong please correct me).

Like the Doom3 + headphones example. Does it make you more involved with the game? Yes. Does it make the game significantly better? No.

I actually think Doom 3 with a headset is better for it, like before it helps with immersion and can help "Put you in the game".

Does the controller of the Wii guaranties better games or gameplay? I don't think so. In fact , i think in time it will damage the games , design wise and experience wise.

In the end though it's just a matter of opinion, the Wiimote isn't exactly for everyone.

 

[Noobulon]

Saying the Wiimote won't affect gameplay is kinda like saying a PC Mouse doesn't affect gamepay, because you can do the same stuff (albeit slower) with the arrow keys.

Of course it affects gameplay - it's a faster, more precise, more intuitive input device, which can read a hell of a lot more information from your hands than a normal pad. There ya go.

 

[Warbie]

I think anything that involves you more in the game is welcome. As for working up a sweat while using the wiimote, there's always the option to rest you elbow on your lap/leg/chair and use small movements of the wrist. Other than for the fun of it there's no need for the exagerated movements shown in the wii clips, and I doubt it'll be much, if any, more tiresome than using a pad.

'That's why I don't see the Wii as a equation of involvment = better games'

Why is Golden Eye such a good game? - i'd argue because squeezing the trigger button and feeling the rumble as bullets fly towards your target makes the experience feel like shooting a real gun. Going back to a mouse certainly felt very tame in comparison.

The more in your face a game is, the more it involves you, the more visceral the experience becomes. As Daminal said, using headphones in a game like Doom 3 can make it more enjoyable (although in this case this analogy isn't very relevant. Using headphones instead of speakers is quite different to using a completely new control method)

'how much power should i apply to the swing i take and all that's connected to precision'

Surely that's good thing? It adds more depth. I liked the way the game allows you to take practise swings - showing you how much the power bar fills up as you swing the wiimote - before taking a shot. Just like playing real golf - in a way

'we'll have alot of gimmick-ridden games with the wiimote'

These games you shrug off so easily are one of the main reasons people are interested in the wii (and previous Nintendo consoles). I assume you feel Wario Ware is just as 'gimmick-ridden' too. These games are not 'in place of making a good , all around game' - it's what people want.

'It could be great fun , no doubt , but those kind of games don't do it for me'

Exactly. You obviously are not the target audience.

 

[AmishSlayer]

As far as the argument of flailing your arms everywhere and working up a sweat when you just want to hang out -

EVERY Wii game (besides Wii Sports) I've seen media for allows for big gestures or small flicks of the wrist.

Watch the E3 Demo Walkthrough video here and tell me if you think that'll be tiring...

http://media.wii.ign.com/media/748/748588/vids_1.html

 

[Warbie]

Good vid. If anything it'll be easier to control and less strenuous than that as at home we can sit down.

I want Galaxies now

 

[Korgoth]

i still say you will get tired of holding your arms up in that position, even if you're sitting... and how annoying is it going to be if something makes you jump and you lose your pointer mid game? Honest questions here.

 

[Reginald]

Rest your entire arm on your knee comfortable with a remote in your hand sitting on an armchair near the TV. Move the remote ever so slightly. How tiring is that?

Now act as if someone made you jump. How long does it take to move your hand back to the centre of the screen. Same time, if not quicker as it takes to re-align a joystick or a mouse.

 

[Mattigus]

It won't be that tiring. Don't believe all the trailers.

Japanese people are just spazzes, that's all.

 

[SimonomiS]

Think how utterly boring the trailers would be if it was just people sitting down flicking the remote a bit.

And if something makes you jump and you "lose" your pointer, it'll be just as annoying as if something makes you jump on a PC and your cursor/aim goes off screen.

 

[Asus]

Just don't tell people you sprained your wrist from playing with your Wii. :naughty:
But seriously, I doubt you will get tired using the controller. Typing is probably more tiring.

 

[AmishSlayer]

IGN Article about Madden 07
http://wii.ign.com/articles/736/736278p1.html

EA has with Madden NFL 07 for Wii delivered a footballer that boasts all the features of its competitors (and then some) and puts Nintendo's new controller to use in a manner that feels neither gimmicky nor forced. Indeed, after a short learning curve, throwing bullet passes and making bit hits feel incredibly natural -- and because the control scheme is so radically different, it feels fresh, too.

They go on to mention some of the finer points of the controls and ingame help tips they offer you if you screw up a gesture (saying you did it too early, slow, late, etc). They also mention multiple multiplayer games that are Wii specific such as a 2v2 pickup kind of football game and a YAC Attack game setting a receiver against 3 defenders (supposedly addictingly fun), and more.

Sounds like EA actually did something right.

 

[Lt. Drebin]

IGN Article about Madden 07
http://wii.ign.com/articles/736/736278p1.html



They go on to mention some of the finer points of the controls and ingame help tips they offer you if you screw up a gesture (saying you did it too early, slow, late, etc). They also mention multiple multiplayer games that are Wii specific such as a 2v2 pickup kind of football game and a YAC Attack game setting a receiver against 3 defenders (supposedly addictingly fun), and more.

Sounds like EA actually did something right.

That's great news. I was shocked to see such praise heeped upon something EA did for a Nintendo console. They have such a nasty history of half-assing their Nintendo variations. This may be the first Madden I purchase since I bought the original for the Genesis....well....I'll at least rent it.

 

[Reginald]

New in-game shots of Red Steel. Look Tamer17!

Looks like ATI was right when they said we've only seen the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Wii graphics.

 

[Noobulon]

pffft there's clearly no realtime raytracing there, dreadful, get it away from me etc

 

[AmishSlayer]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2964751562925463883&q=ps3+vs+wii&hl=en



If nothing else it's a hot chick wearing few clothes dancing.

 

[Reginald]

Man. That was awesome. What was it about? :| I'm not sure I noticed.



Hehe. Very nice indeed. :E

 

[Tamer17]

Those look better , so good to see that. The game itself looks below avarge.

Oh , about the comment that i'm not the target market. I think Nintendo wishes to expand and increase the consumers ammount. I am a potentional consumer.

Sony , Microsoft and Nintendo showcased their consoles and the Wii just didn't appeal to me or impressed me. Thw Wii just brings out alot of questions and unknowns from me and with all due respect to all the hands-on testing of gaming sites , I don't trust it too much and it's something everyone should test by his own to see.

The Wii could be a success , but maybe I , personally , won't like it after playing.

 

[-Psy-]

Unlucky for Nintendo?

Your only one person.

 

[Warbie]

You might end up liking it, Tamer. Stranger things have happened.

Nintendo has stated it's wants to bring in new people, people who before had no interest in gaming, and those who want something new. You don't appear to fall into either.

 

[JNightshade]

Trust me, things change. When Sony announced the PSP, and Nintendo the DS, I thought the PSP was going to be god- and the DS, trash. Cut to today, where I own (and adore) a DS.

 

[-Psy-]

Those screenshots must be rendered.

How else would it be possible to have a 1200 x 768 shot?

 

[Asus]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2964751562925463883&q=ps3+vs+wii&hl=en

If nothing else it's a hot chick wearing few clothes dancing.

Even though I've seen that a few times but it is still pretty amusing.

Sony , Microsoft and Nintendo showcased their consoles and the Wii just didn't appeal to me or impressed me. Thw Wii just brings out alot of questions and unknowns from me and with all due respect to all the hands-on testing of gaming sites , I don't trust it too much and it's something everyone should test by his own to see.
The Wii could be a success , but maybe I , personally , won't like it after playing.

Just go play a demo instores when it comes out. :bounce:

Those screenshots must be rendered.
How else would it be possible to have a 1200 x 768 shot?

Good question...
If it is a render then that isn't so good.
If it's an ingame shot then a 1200x768 screen cap isn't going to make the game look better. It would be the same 480p detail.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Could they not have the code running on something besides a Wii, and just have bumped it up to a higher res for screenshots' sake?

 

[Korgoth]

This just backs up what I was saying earlier, about the controller being uncomfortable.

Boy, do my arms hurt: Whether "casting" a fishing rod to catch virtual bass in Zelda or tossing a bowling ball in Wii Sports, I nearly dislocated my shoulder using the wireless controller. Shoulder pain may be the gamers' new carpal tunnel syndrome as far as Wii's motion-based gameplay is concerned. "

A lot of positives for the new system, but some pretty strong cons too.
http://tech.yahoo.com/blog/samiljan/13