WoW Cataclysm

PvtRyan said:
Paladins are also a better class in every shape, way and form. Seriously, vanilla Paladins were a terrible class. I really can't think of a single way in which vanilla WoW was a better game, it wasn't even harder, just tedious and tiresome. Or it was harder because it was broken, like how the threatcap was 43% lower for Horde raids because they didn't have BoS. The only things you could do at 60 were raid (which cost you your entire day or evening), participate in the horrible Honor grind or hop around in Ironforge. Five mans? No one did those, the rewards were terrible, they weren't fun and good luck finding a group. The only time anyone did them was with the 45 minute Stratholme 'challenge'. This longing back for the original TBC heroics is also nonsense, they weren't challenging, they just had trash that hit really hard, while the bosses were still easy tank and spank without interesting mechanics. How to deal with the hard hitting trash? Just bring classes that could CC, ideally two mages. Your class didn't have CC? GTFO.

Cataclysm is a better game in every way and in the long run and almost every decision made by Blizzard has been a good one.
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Was any of that in response to me? I didn't at all say that Cataclysm was bad or Vanilla Paladins were good. What were you reading? I specifically said the game is EASIER now and that Paladins now are MUCH DIFFERENT than they were originally. I went on to say that Blizzard's means to change things that need to be changed is a shotty way. They identify issues and make sweeping changes that affect much more than the original problem.

I'm just going to assume you were looking at something else..
 
Eejit said:
Wait they shortened Maraudon? Blasphemy!
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Actually they didn't, I'm not sure what he's on about. It's just been split into it's 3 separate wings in LFG, and it's been lowered so you do them around 40-50.

PvtRyan said:
Anyone who vents the opinion that WoW is becoming more casual friendly and thinks that's a bad thing should be forced to run BRD for all eternity.
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BRD can suck a dick, too bad it's about the one instance they didn't touch and is still completely horrible.

I will always miss 15 man UBRS runs, though.
 
Bad^Hat said:
Actually they didn't, I'm not sure what he's on about. It's just been split into it's 3 separate wings in LFG, and it's been lowered so you do them around 40-50.
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Maraudon always had seperate wings. They simply split 'em up in to seperate dungeons now.
 
StarBob said:
None of them are exceptionally hard. Certain bosses in certain instances are a lot tougher than others, but generally it's just a fair challenge. The issue is that some people are dumb and suck at everything. You need a tank that is competent and knows how to maneuver, a healer that knows how to heal effectivel and efficiently, and dps that knows how to do their job and CC without breaking it. The most common failure is the DPS. These are the people who are playing while watching TV, eating a sandwich, and getting a colonoscopy. They really only know how to press the 2-3 buttons it takes to feign effective dps and don't ever consider or attempt doing things another way. They're the people that make those fights difficult. In WotLK they could suck and it wouldn't really matter. Heroics were so easy you could 3 man most of them. Now it just takes some coordination and skill.

The sad part is, prolly 6 months down the road when the next tiers of crap show up, these heroics will turn back in to WotLK heroics and people will be chain pulling and blazing through them in 20 minutes. Hell I've already seen it starting. I like the 5 man content but I wish it just wasn't so ultimately limited like it as been in the past.
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Too true, I'll admit. But with a good tank and a good healer, 1 dps that sucks (as long as that suckiness doesn't mean that he's actively screwing up stuff - aggroing mobs, breaking CC, etc.) doesn't really matter.

I still hope that they stay hard enough to be a certain challenge; otherwise it gets boring after time.
 
Bad^Hat said:
Actually they didn't, I'm not sure what he's on about. It's just been split into it's 3 separate wings in LFG, and it's been lowered so you do them around 40-50.
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Oh well, this is what I meant. They would never shorten the actual instance by taking things out, only split it into parts. And if Shaker is correct, then I had no idea that it was this way from the beginning. Now keep in mind, only been in Maraudon like 5 times total in my WoW career and 3 of those times were in vanilla. I only just recently made an alt, and went in, and realized they had "shortened" or split up the instance.
 
They're not shorter at all when you consider people would usually just do one wing at a time anyway. Or, more commonly for me, the same wing a few times over (we used to call it Dire Mall :p).

They have considerably shortened some instances, though. Sunken Temple has been hacked down to just the last segment with Hakkar, the high priest guy and Eranikus. And it is so much better for it.
 
Glyphs have changed from Lich King, they used to be one-use but now you permanently learn them and can switch freely between them with a cheap reagent. You can see all of them on your glyphs page, whether learned or not, so scroll through and see which ones you think might benefit you. Stuff that gives some kind of speed boost or reduces a cooldown on an important spell can be handy for levelling, but use your own discretion - like I said, it's pretty easy to switch them later.

The worst part will probably be the prices, depending on your server's economy. Inscription used to be a license to print money since people would buy the same glyphs over and over, but since you only need them once they've hiked their prices to compensate. If you have a friend/guildy who can make them, all the better.
 
My Goblin Mage arrived in Outland tonight. Not looking forward to the next 10 levels. I hate that place. Especially after the new Azeroth it looks so bland and out of place.
 
I logged onto my alt to run a dungeon with my guild when this happened.

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4 Bars from 84 I don't want it to end so damn fast but I guess I can always level my alts too
 
Jesus Christ, I can't seem to get any of the Heroic items for my Hunter.

I can't get through more than 2 ~ 3 heroic dungeons a day, because they tire me out to no end.


And the sad fact is, I'd like to raid and PvP at the same time, so double farming for me. :/
 
I've only been doing 1, maybe 2 heroics a day. That coupled with dailies and other stuff (regular quests, levelling alts, etc) is more than enough to get my fill. My guild is pretty casual about raiding, so I'm in no huge hurry anyway.
 
15357 said:
Jesus Christ, I can't seem to get any of the Heroic items for my Hunter.

I can't get through more than 2 ~ 3 heroic dungeons a day, because they tire me out to no end.


And the sad fact is, I'd like to raid and PvP at the same time, so double farming for me. :/
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Welcome to BC
 
hit 84, gunna take me about a week before I hit 85 at this rate then I'm going to do some regs and then Heroics with some buddies
 
Got into a raid group for Baradin Hold. It didn't go so well. We had limited time because Tol Barad was going to start, people were sided on whether we needed to drop a dps for another heals, because we had already wiped two times before this. They wanted to get a separate healer just to dispell, which I thought was an awful idea at the cost of dps, because the enrage timer is like 5 minutes. It didn't matter though, because the time it took us to get the healer in the group and summoned and what not, we had like 2 minutes left. Hopefully I can get back in another group soon, because I really want some T11.
 
You're supposed to buy the new tier with the new points, right?
 
Not entirely sure. When I checked out the valor vendor it seemed as though you still needed to redeem tokens for tier gear, which will drop from raid bosses, but my set pants were buyable for (I think) 2200 points. I guess just so you have a head start on it before raiding?

Of course, you can always do the raid in Tol Barad too, but you have to get pretty lucky for the right class/spec/slot item to drop, and then win it. :p
 
Valor points can be used for various epics similar to the justice points can be used for blues. You can also use them for the ilevel 359 versions of the chest, gloves, and leg pieces of your set. The rest of the pieces for the set have to picked up from normal mode bosses. Then the heroic version of each is upgraded via an "essence of the forlorn." You take that an the set piece to the vendor and you get the Heroic piece. Plus the Tol Barad boss drops various pieces but I think for only the ones you can get from the vendor along with PvP armors.
 
PVP is more fun as a mage now. I feel like the game is finally balanced again in my favor! Arcane and Frost specs I have, but I'm willing to finally try Fire this time around
 
Frost mages are christing annoying, even as a feral druid. So many stuns/freezes. Must level mine and get in on the fun. :3
 
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Our first foray into Blackwing Descent just to see what Magmaw is like. We didn't have enough aoe for the worms, so now we know what needs to improve before we can down him. Pretty easy fight for melee though.
 
Warped said:
PVP is more fun as a mage now. I feel like the game is finally balanced again in my favor! Arcane and Frost specs I have, but I'm willing to finally try Fire this time around
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You do realize that mages were always overpowered, even before Cataclysm and possibly before LK and BC all the way back to the original? :p

Hunters rule. :E
 
I don't like the skill tree's....
I don't wanna sound cliche I have on a almost 17 month break before I came back like 3 weeks ago.
But god damn the game is now to overtly casual.
 
unozero said:
I don't like the skill tree's....
I don't wanna sound cliche I have on a almost 17 month break before I came back like 3 weeks ago.
But god damn the game is now to overtly casual.
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I don't think it's any more casual than it's been in the past however many years since they dropped raids from 40 to 25 and added 10 mans. That added more thing to do as a casual player, but they also added more things to do as a committed player. More raids, rated battlegrounds, plenty of things to grind out for no reason. If you're trying to say that smaller skill trees imply casual gameplay then I think you've lost sight of the meaning of casual play.
 
To be honest: Lots of stuff has become a lot easier. I can't judge the current end-game content because I am still leveling my mage, but at the moment dungeons are almost too easy. You need to have a dumb group full of noobs that don't know how to play their role to even have a remote chance on whiping.
 
Shakermaker said:
To be honest: Lots of stuff has become a lot easier. I can't judge the current end-game content because I am still leveling my mage, but at the moment dungeons are almost too easy. You need to have a dumb group full of noobs that don't know how to play their role to even have a remote chance on whiping.
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Way to be in direct opposition to the millions of people crying about how heroics are too hard. Heroics are currently much more difficult than Wrath heroics were at the beginning or the end of their run. Personally I actually find the game to be much more difficult from a healer standpoint simply because a small mistake doesn't allow for easy recovery. A small mistake from anyone means I have to drain my mana pool with big heals instead of being able to stack efficient heals. Also world raid progressions seems to be going slower than it has in many previous iterations. I think maybe overall the game is easier if you take it as a single entity, but there are definitely a lot of specific aspects that just as or much more difficult than they have been in recent years. The fact remains, however, that the game hasn't become completely "casual," it merely has given casual players more to do instead of catering entirely to hardcore raiders like it has for a long time.
 
StarBob said:
If you're trying to say that smaller skill trees imply casual gameplay then I think you've lost sight of the meaning of casual play.
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Don't you know? Anything that's simplified in any way, regardless of the reason for or outcome of it, is always done for "casuals." ;)

The shortened skill trees are fine, save for a few specs which could use some tweaking (looking at you, discipline). I'll reserve judgement until they've rolled out a few content patches, for now they function well and the only thing that's missing is the illusion of choice that was present in the old trees.
 
I think people are misusing the word casual. I think the game is a lot better now that raiding isn't a huge timesink (for unfun stuff that doesn't even involve raiding. It still takes a while to gear up and actually raid inside of the dungeon) and having to deal with large guilds of elitist pricks, assholes, crybabies, lootwhores and those girls that cling to leadership for extra perks.

On that note, raiding went to shit with wrath. So far it's been wonderful for me in cata. But then again, I've been unable to kill magmaw, and only have the first two bosses of Bastion done.

And the skill trees? It was for the better. It made leveling a wonderful experience and maybe even a little more balanced at end-game. It certainly gave the developers more knobs to turn and more control over how we level. I think it was a very good idea. (I'm just sad I can't dual wield as protection anymore or shield slam as fury :( )
 
Often when people say "casuals" they're talking about different things. e.g. limited playtime vs limited ability or 'skill'.
 
Whenever I hear someone call for more casual play, I immediately think of a game where healers don't worry about mana, All fights are essentially tank and spanks with maybe a few debuffs which are instantly dispelled, fights are only 3 minutes max and you can ignore deadly mechanics with gear from the same tier and the hardest part of the fight is watching out for void zones. (lol wrath)

The game needs to be difficult. I don't understand anyone who thinks heroics are too hard. To me it sounds like they aren't even trying. I agree wholeheartedly that to enjoy the game you shouldn't need 25 people and you shouldn't be expected to play the game 60 hours a week to enjoy it, but there's a point where it's just people who want purple gear and nothing else.
 
StarBob said:
Way to be in direct opposition to the millions of people crying about how heroics are too hard. Heroics are currently much more difficult than Wrath heroics were at the beginning or the end of their run. Personally I actually find the game to be much more difficult from a healer standpoint simply because a small mistake doesn't allow for easy recovery. A small mistake from anyone means I have to drain my mana pool with big heals instead of being able to stack efficient heals. Also world raid progressions seems to be going slower than it has in many previous iterations. I think maybe overall the game is easier if you take it as a single entity, but there are definitely a lot of specific aspects that just as or much more difficult than they have been in recent years. The fact remains, however, that the game hasn't become completely "casual," it merely has given casual players more to do instead of catering entirely to hardcore raiders like it has for a long time.
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I did say explicitly that I was talking about the normal dungeons during leveling, not the level 85 content. I see tanks pulling two or three groups of mobs at once. This used to be suicide, but even a group full of noobs will survive it now. As someone else mentioned crowd control isn't a factor at all anymore. I haven't been asked to sheep (or in my case: penguin) a mob once while leveling my Mage and I am level 67 currently. I survived SM:Cath with Mograine being pulled before the church was cleared. Yesterday I survived Old Hillsbrad because of an astute healer who noticed Thrall was doing the real tanking, not the noob warrior with the dps spec. I do hope you're right and the level 85 content is more of a challenge, because I am getting a bit bored with all the easymode spanking right now.
 
Yeah, the leveling process is a joke. Going into deadmines at 15 (Every level past that made it less and less fun) was a challenge, but for all the dungeons they neglected to fully modify (this includes sfk) it was pretty much just hanging out and having a good time.

I will say one thing. The heroics are hard, but it's not difficult as everyone is making it out to be when you're in full heroic gear. You sometimes still need a CC on one thing, but I feel like I'm in full kara gear going into heroics in BC. Don't get me wrong, you can still wipe over silly stuff. I just feel like I'm gearing up a little too fast.

Raids are definitely the bee's knees though.
 
When they first announced heroics Blizzard said they were meant to be challenging. Working as intended?
 
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