Beastiality

[99.vikram]

How does that make it immoral?

Immorality is relative so forget that.

What I've established is that it can be damaging to the person's psyche.

 

[Ikerous]

Immorality is relative so forget that.

If immorality is relative then murder and rape aren't necessarily wrong
And theres no reason to be debating in this thread
In fact it'd make the entire thread pointless

What I've established is that it can be damaging to the person's psyche.

And I can't choose to damage my own psyche if I want to?
I'd imagine watching violent films damages my psyche but that dosen't make it wrong.
Falling in love can potentially be more damaging than anything else, but that isn't wrong (I'm speaking about two humans of course...)

 

[99.vikram]

If immorality is relative then murder and rape aren't necessarily wrong
And theres no reason to be debating in this thread
In fact it'd make the entire thread pointless

I meant that immorality is defined by everyone differently. We cannot use "immoral" as an argument, like we would "illegal" (infringing on others' rights).

And I can't choose to damage my own psyche if I want to?
I'd imagine watching violent films damages my psyche but that dosen't make it wrong.

NO!! That's why suicide is illegal.
Movies and games have potential to damage the psyche, but miniscule compared to the damage beastiality can inflict on human relations, esp. sexual ones.

 

[Ikerous]

I meant that immorality is defined by everyone differently. We cannot use "immoral" as an argument, like we would "illegal" (infringing on others' rights).

The entire thread is about wether or not it's moral...
I never used "immoral" as an argument
I'm looking for aguments that it is or isnt immoral

If you don't think the morality of an action is debatable, please stop debating it.

NO!! That's why suicide is illegal.
Movies and games have potential to damage the psyche, but miniscule compared to the damage beastiality can inflict on human relations, esp. sexual ones.

Again... that doesn't explain how it's wrong...
I can inflict as much damage on my ability to have relationships as I want

 

[99.vikram]

Ah, STFU Ikerious :flame:

Instead of presenting counterpoints you keep pushing me to give more points, without giving meaningful reasons why my points are invalid.

I give up. You win. :x

 

[Ikerous]

Ah, STFU Ikerious :flame:

<3?

 

[Danimal]

They don't? I don't know who sticks their arms up cow butts, but it sounds weird, and the images coming to my head are not friendly ones!

It's how they artifically inseminate cows.

EDIT: Qonfuzz beat me.

 

[Ikerous]

Qonfuzz beat me.

So you're into that kinda thing eh? :naughty:

 

[99.vikram]

Artificial insemnation = worst job evah

 

[Danimal]

How else did I become a moderator? D:

 

[Ikerous]

No comments on bestiality tho? Agree, disagree?
You seem to have read through the thread

 

[99.vikram]

The name says it all : Danimal
D:

 

[Danimal]

Morally, for me it is wrong. You make a point about the cow not feeling pain (Unless it's too lazy to kick the guy inseminating it.) but Eres also makes a point about the possible mental suffering.

Basically, to me, if it can feel pain I woudn't want anyone doing it.

EDIT: Vikram shh!

 

[Ikerous]

Ya, if the cow does feel pain from the act I'd be against it. But considering the size of the animal and the size of whats going in it.. especially when it's perfectly fine to stick arms up there... I can't imagine there'd be a problem

I thought the emotional suffering point was one of the better arguments against it. But what emotion would the cow be feeling? Ashamed? Used? I just can't picture a cow feeling either of those :/

 

[99.vikram]

The cow would definitely feel discomfort :/

 

[nutcrackr]

It's only wrong if you don't record it.

 

[Ikerous]

The cow would definitely feel discomfort :/

Cows are huge... maybe you're bigger than I am down there.. But I really don't see it being a problem
They have entire arms stuck up their ass all the time ffs :/

It's only wrong if you don't record it.

:thumbs:

 

[99.vikram]

It's not all the time, and it's not comfortable. Artificial insemnation isn't a joyride for the cow.

 

[Ikerous]

I'm sure it's not the best thing they go through, but they don't even seem to mind it
So I cant imagine something as small as a penis would cause pain

It's so hard to find information about the size of cow's asses on google

 

[99.vikram]

Excellent idea! We shall conduct an experiment!

I'll get the cow, you do the needful

 

[Sulkdodds]

Was your purpose in this thread to expose hypocritical attitudes? You may have succeeded there, what with people saying 'it's unnatural!' while, when arguing about gay rights, they'd trash that argument (and rightly so). In a similar way you make an alright point about consent - we're content to say 'animals don't want it therefore it's bad' while not saying anything about the fact that we kill such animals on a regular basis - without asking.

However, the concept of consent is still the main argument as to why bestiality is wrong - a term which should be differentiated from disgusting or gross (which it really is, lol).

Not all animals are killed. Often, cows are kept for their milk; sheep are kept for their wool; cats, dogs etc are kept as pets or as useful companions/workers while badgers, squirrels, foxes and birds are generally left alone. Thus it's not true to say that we don't treat animals with a universal standard of morality. If you're opposed to killing animals without reason then it's entirely right that you should consider bestiality wrong. To approve of bestiality you must approve of hunting and you must actively approve of the mass slaughter of animals. You must believe that it is okay to do anything to an animal without consent. Just because a double standard exists - just because there is a convention that animals do not have the same rights as us - that doesn't mean you should obey it.

In a similar way, one act does not sanctify another. People kill animals all the time, but that doesn't make it okay to kill another. It doesn't make it okay to effectively rape another. Unless you could and would personally chop off that cow's head you are being pretty hypocritical in raping it.

Meanwhile, said slaughter could be said to be justified because we are omnivores with a species to support. Certainly, it's a better deal for the animals than getting hunted down and run through with a spear.

Eating meat is not murder, but killing meat might be.

Er, this has been a bit haphazard.

:imu:

Is bestiality moral? The answer is generally no, because:

- They are incapable of consent.
- A convention against asking animals for consent does not, most of the time, exist.
- Even if it does, that does not justify rape, as Ludah pointed out.

In your specific cow-cocking case it is still wrong because:

- The cow is incapable of consent.
- There is not necessarily a convention that the cow doesn't have to consent to anything.
- Even if there was, it would not justify raping the cow.

:imu:

But this all raises another problem: is our treatment of animals moral? Is the slaughter of animals justified for food (I for one have never been sure of this, and might not even be if presented with statistics that showed a very low proportion of the meat was wasted)? Do animals loose rights as they drop down and down the scale of intelligence? Is killing a spider fine, but killing a mouse wrong? Can we therefore only apply our system of morals to human beings? Must we essentially be an arrogant and self-serving species, applying moral standards only to ourselves?

D:

 

[99.vikram]

I never said "abnormal" or "unnatural", Sulkdodds :frown:

 

[Bad^Hat]

Good luck trying to get that big glove to fit on your wang.

 

[Ikerous]

It really leads to some interesting conclusions, doesn't it sulks?
You actually adressed a lot of the problems I have with the opinion myself
Namely that of, are our reguards towards animals in general misguided? (which would themselves lead to a false conclusion here)

I'd love to address all the points in your post but theres so many XD

But in the end I can't help but think that as long as I'm not hurting the animal it's okay... I mean, I don't see anything wrong with forcing the animal to come live with me. Teaching it to crap when I want it to and only letting it ouside when I deam fit. Or to force an animal to work as a drug dog. Or to force a cow to stand in a pen all day while machines suck the milk from them. And considering i eat meat almost daily, i clearly don't have a huge issue with them being killed because i like how they taste. Not because I couldn't live without it. So how much worse is it to use them for pleasure? They don't know they're being used. So it alleviates any sort of guilt i'd have. And their will or consent clearly doesn't matter to me or i wouldn't condone all those other practices. It seems that I'd even be a hypocrite to condem someone for doing this.

But this does raise a lot of questions

Btw sulks, you ****ing rule.
Half the people just wrote me off as insane, but you really got the implications of this and came up with a great post
<3 <3

 

[Sulkdodds]

Yeah, it does. I mean, I do see what you're saying, and you've raised some dead interesting responses (Vikram, I wasn't referring to yours with my previous comment ). But I forgot to add under bestiality is generally speaking wrong that 'most animals will feel discomfort if you rape them'.

So how much worse is it to use them for pleasure? They don't know they're being used.

Makes it even worse, surely?

I don't see anything wrong with forcing the animal to come live with me. Teaching it to crap when I want it to and only letting it ouside when I deam fit. Or to force an animal to work as a drug dog. Or to force a cow to stand in a pen all day while machines suck the milk from them.

But then, this goes deeper...let's take it to a human level...are people forced into employment? Are the working classes forced into a certain bracket, a certan job and house? To what extent does anyone choose anything for themselves?

I still think that, unless you are personally willing to kill the animal or do anything to it yourself, you are being hypocritical in believing it is okay to rape it. And if you are personally willing to kill the animal, then that's immoral in itself. If you're fine with the killing and 'enslavement' of animals to such an extent that you're willing to personally rape one, I'd call that quite immoral.

But is this me speaking or is it my social conditioning against bestiality?

Frankly, as far as I can see, you'd need to actually wrestle with some very profound metophysical and ethical problems, devising a comprehensive belief system that you find can inform your decisions effectively on absolutely anything and everything.

Until then, probably safest not to rape any cows.

 

[Ikerous]

But I forgot to add under bestiality is generally speaking wrong that 'most animals will feel discomfort if you rape them'.

I'm definitely with you there

Makes it even worse, surely?

Ya know, it probably does, but it'd make me feel a lot less bad
If it knew it was being used... it'd be emotionally hurt, it'd feel terrible
And that'd make me feel terrible
But since it can't know anything like that.. I wouldn't feel as bad since that aspect is removed
I'm just not causing the harm that I'd be causing if it knew

But then, this goes deeper...let's take it to a human level...are people forced into employment? Are the working classes forced into a certain bracket, a certan job and house? To what extent does anyone choose anything for themselves?

Although I see the connection, it just isn't as drastic for humans as it is for animals. Surely we don't have as much control over our lives as we'd like to think, but we really do have the power to change our status in society if we really want to. Animals don't have that option. They can't get an education or start a business.

I still think that, unless you are personally willing to kill the animal or do anything to it yourself, you are being hypocritical in believing it is okay to rape it. And if you are personally willing to kill the animal, then that's immoral in itself. If you're fine with the killing and 'enslavement' of animals to such an extent that you're willing to personally rape one, I'd call that quite immoral.

You've got a point. I would never want to kill the animals myself. But the very fact that I eat them so commonly just because I like the taste makes me just as morally accountable as the person who killed them. And if I'm okay with that, what right do I have to tell someone who wants to screw the cow that they can't do that? That what they're doing is wrong, but what I'm doing is okay?

But is this me speaking or is it my social conditioning against bestiality?

It's really hard to seperate the two :/
Especially since it involves the word 'rape' which has such strong connotations

Until then, probably safest not to rape any cows.

I definitely don't plan on it

Although I must say, you've left me far less secure about my stance on the issue. Gj
But this is definitely the best any thread about ****ing cows on any forum has ever gone.

 

[Laivasse]

Dammit Sulkd00ds, stop arriving at threads before me and totally pwnzoring them.

The last few posts contain pretty much everything I wanted to say. I'd go further on the moral relativity thing though. Since morals are a human creation and differ from person to person, we need to rely on the legal basis for the argument against bestiality - which is, don't plug cows because you'll dirty your dick and spread disease around, innit.

 

[Nih]

If the animal feels pain it's immoral. In many cases animals are already abused more than they should, so there's no need to abuse them more. Wether animals feel emotional pain from being raped is up to debate.

Homosexuality is ok because two men can feel love for each other.
In my opinion, bestiality is wrong because the cow can't love a human. And judging from what I've read from various bestiality forums(lol), humans only do it for fun, not for love. Since we can't know for sure wether animals feel emotional pain, we don't want to give any unneccesary pain to animals, and since you can't love an animal there's absolutely no reason it should be legal.

As for your cow example, that's pretty silly. People put their hands up there for a reason, and it's most likely not pleasureable for the cow. Like all other animals, the cow doesn't have a wide ass, it's colon simply extends when something is put inside it. Not pleasureable.

 

[Ikerous]

As for your cow example, that's pretty silly. People put their hands up there for a reason, and it's most likely not pleasureable for the cow. Like all other animals, the cow doesn't have a wide ass, it's colon simply extends when something is put inside it. Not pleasureable.

I was simpley trying to point out that since it's capable of extending to such an insane girth with such ease, then a penis couldnt possibley be a problem. If theres enough elasticity in the ass to get an arm up there, then a penis would probably go in w/o any resistance or with very minimal resistance

 

[Sulkdodds]

Can't be much fun then.

 

[Ikerous]

Can't be much fun then.

That's actually what i've been thinking for most of the thread XD

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Oh my god LMFAO
"large animal beastiality"

 

[Danimal]

I got the image of Ikky screwing a very large cow now stuck in my head. Awsome. :x

 

[Jintor]

It's wrong because... it's hardwired into my brain that it's wrong.

Yeah.

That'll work.

 

[Yuri]

This has to be one of the best threads in a long time

It really is an interesting issue to discuss.

 

[Solaris]

What about in thoose porno films where its an animal having sex with a woman? My freind had one on his phone, it was pretty disgusting, but it had a horse doing a woman, and another one where a dog was doing her.

Both animals were obviously enjoying themselves, and so was the woman.

What then?

 

[Bad^Hat]

It's wrong because your singularity configured mind can't comprehend that ****ing a cow is opposite to what you're been programmed to think by the evil bastards who call themselves educators.

 

[Raeven0]

Curse the frailty of mortal shell. I missed this thread because I was sleeping.

My turn, though.

In your specific example of the cow with the huge anus, properly protected, and assuming (based on reasonable evidence to the effect) that cows lack the mental and emotional complexity to comprehend "Oh, I would seem to be inadvertently providing sensual pleasures to a human male," I suppose I could not take technical legal issue with bestiality, even though I personally would find it to be abominable and disgusting (almost irony, but not quite).

But then, we have to be careful when we generalise this.

Taking this abominable but tolerable scenario and applying it to other animals, as a justification for all bestiality, won't work. Raping kitties is never funny. But how can we outlaw porking kitties but not doggie-styling cows? We can't exactly set up cow brothels.

It happens often in law that we outlaw bad things even though they're occasionally beneficial, and we legalise things that are occasionally bad. General cases are more important than specific ones. Generally, I have to say keep your boyparts out of animals.

I'm not as good as Herr Sulks, but I try.

And now, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

COWS COWS COWS COWS COWS COWS COWS COWS COWS
OMG U SO STUPID
ITS JUST WRONG ACCEPT IT
GROSSGROSSGROSSGROSSEWWEWWEWWEWW
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

[DreadLord]

Gross thread yo.

 

[99.vikram]

Can't be much fun then.

That's actually what i've been thinking for most of the thread XD

OH, REALLY?

That's what I've been trying to convince you for a whole !@#$$ day :flame: