Episode 2 - what it does/doesn't need.

The MG-3 is actually a 21st Century all purpose Machine Gun for Germany and many other nations World Wide, Its in the BF2 mod Point of Exisitence.

the MG-42 uses 7.92x57 Mauser rounds.


The MG-3 is an updated MG-42 with lighter weight materials, plastics etc and uses the modern 7.62x51 NATO rounds.
 
I dont like the idea of putting these realistic weapons into the game :| I don't play HL2 shooting down combine and think "Wow this the realism in this game is stunning. I mean..Tao cannon on my car! Pew pew! I need more realism!"
 
Exactly. I'm not talking about the timeperiod the guns are in- I'm talking about the feel of HL2. Putting in a gun like that would change it completely- and for the worse.
 
I know, it was a joke.

And I also agree, I couldent imagine a HL game that is tactical, atleast in a COD or Crysis way.
 
Barrett Light!!1
Just kidding, the Crossbow will always be the original :p
 
no more Zombie levels
one more gun (Combine sniper)
more interaction
 
I think the game mechanics are great, and if you like the iron sights in other games, go play other games, 'cause I'm quite fond of HL because it has nothing like that in it.

Redneck said:
Oh yeah, and they should add a melee function on the guns, so you can whack the close enemies on the noggin.
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(http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=109071&page=7)

*bzzt!* ERROR! Halo detected. Commencing backup arguement...
Why on earth would you want one of those when we have a perfectly good crowbar?? Half-life isn't Half-life without the crowbar!

And inspired by re-playing HL2's Route Canal: NO MANHACKS. I HATE MANHACKS. There's no power from the citadel, so is that a good enough reason to NOT HAVE MANHACKS. ...please?...

I think antlions are great if *you* get the bugbait! Ah, good times...
 
Rennmniscant said:
*bzzt!* ERROR! Halo detected. Commencing backup arguement...
Why on earth would you want one of those when we have a perfectly good crowbar?? Half-life isn't Half-life without the crowbar!
Click to expand...
He has a point though. Whilst I liked being forced to use guns in most of the first four chapters of Episode One, I can't deny that it just would have made more sense if gordon would swing his guns or his fists around rather than wasting ammo on little headcrab bitches. This was highlighted even further by Alyx's close combat karate moves against various zombies and the like. Sure the crowbar is emblematic, but that doesn't mean that all melee combat should be mediated through it!
 
SMod's front kick was fantastic. That said, most things about SMod were fantastic.
Nevertheless, HL a-proper doesn't need melee functions beyond the crowbar. It's weird enough Gordon being ridiculously adept with all different kinds of varied weaponary, let alone some closet martial arts master.
 
Darkside , I don't thing the gunship and striders battles can be considered as boss fights , they are regular "units".

About that Garg and tentacle , i agree. That's one reason i liked HL1. There were "mid-game" bosses and the way to beat them wasn't the lame spraying the enemy with bullets until it dies, you had to do something to get rid of them.

I hope Valve will add those xen lifeforms or at least we get a glimpse of them.

BTW , didn't the Garg exploded when it died in HL1? maybe the Garg is part of the combine :eek:. His flamethrower type of weapon can be put on use to clear ways and that sort of stuff. Hm..maybe the combine creamator was given "attributes" of the garg..The Creamator itself will be a welcome edition to Ep2 as well.
 
el Chi said:
SMod's front kick was fantastic. That said, most things about SMod were fantastic.
Nevertheless, HL a-proper doesn't need melee functions beyond the crowbar. It's weird enough Gordon being ridiculously adept with all different kinds of varied weaponary, let alone some closet martial arts master.
Click to expand...

SMod was god awful. :p
 
el Chi said:
Nevertheless, HL a-proper doesn't need melee functions beyond the crowbar.
Click to expand...

Need? It would be fun, and it doesn't mean that you have to get rid of the crowbar, it still would be useful(to brake boxes:cheese: )

el Chi said:
It's weird enough Gordon being ridiculously adept with all different kinds of varied weaponry, let alone some closet martial arts master.
Click to expand...

I wasn't talking about fancy martial arts moves. I was just saying that it would be fun if you could hit a close enemy with the back of your gun. That doesn't require any particular skill.

Tamer17 said:
maybe the Garg is part of the combine :eek:.
Click to expand...

Don't be silly. The garg is NOT a synth it's just a weird creature that has flamethrowers for hands:cheese: .
 
New weapons! Being able to use the combine sniper rifle would be so badass. At least 5 new weapons, or perhaps modifications for the current weapons. Maybe instead of having an over-crowded inventory.. when you pick up lets say a sniper rifle it would replace the crossbow? Or an mp5 replacing the mp7 when you pick it up? Just thoughts.
 
The best Idea I've seen so far, and I had talked about it in some antlion thread a while back, is the idea of a huge boss battle like the one we had in HL1 with the tentacle. Episode 2 can suck hard, but if it has something like the Tentacle battle it'll make the game for me :|
 
Tamer17 said:
Darkside , I don't thing the gunship and striders battles can be considered as boss fights , they are regular "units".
Click to expand...
Yeah, they're not real boss fights, just regular enemies thrown into unique situations. That's why we need an actual boss, or at least a mid-boss.

And yeah, as Redneck said, the garg's not a synth. It's a normal Xenian creature, who just happens to barbeque his food before he eats it. :p

el Chi said:
It's weird enough Gordon being ridiculously adept with all different kinds of varied weaponry, let alone some closet martial arts master.
Click to expand...
Redneck said:
I wasn't talking about fancy martial arts moves. I was just saying that it would be fun if you could hit a close enemy with the back of your gun. That doesn't require any particular skill.
Click to expand...
The thing is, even bashing an enemy over the head with a gun is a bit beyond Gordon Freeman. It's not that he couldn't, it's just that it never occurs to him. He couldn't smash an enemy in the face with the butt of his rifle any more than he could roundhouse kick a Combine. It's just beyond him, which is why we need the crowbar.

Gordon doesn't know about melee, but when that crowbar's in his hand he becomes an unstoppable force of nature. Something switches in him and that's when the close-combat ass-whoop comes out, facilitated by the crowbar. Likewise the crowbar's only a normal crowbar, but in Gordon's hands it's the most devastating weapon in the universe. It can ONLY become that way in Gordon's hands, and Gordon can ONLY melee with the crowbar. This is the ultimate law of the HL universe.
 
Darkside55 said:
when that crowbar's in his hand he becomes an unstoppable force of nature. Something switches in him and that's when the close-combat ass-whoop comes out, facilitated by the crowbar. Likewise the crowbar's only a normal crowbar, but in Gordon's hands it's the most devastating weapon in the universe. It can ONLY become that way in Gordon's hands, and Gordon can ONLY melee with the crowbar. This is the ultimate law of the HL universe.
Click to expand...

yes, thats why its my name :D
 
Darkside55 said:
Gordon doesn't know about melee, but when that crowbar's in his hand he becomes an unstoppable force of nature. Something switches in him and that's when the close-combat ass-whoop comes out, facilitated by the crowbar. Likewise the crowbar's only a normal crowbar, but in Gordon's hands it's the most devastating weapon in the universe. It can ONLY become that way in Gordon's hands, and Gordon can ONLY melee with the crowbar. This is the ultimate law of the HL universe.
Click to expand...

Or you mean in our heads as we run around smashing everything we can find with it.

I think we need more time with Eli and Dr. Kliener. Everytime you caught up with them this is what happened:

Eli or Kliener: "Gordon! your safe! We have lots to do"

10 minutes later

Eli or Kliener: "GTFO RIGHT NOW OR WERE ALL GOING TO DIE"

I want more than that D:
 
Why do we need a boss fight? I like to think gaming has moved on somewhat. A large, typical boss creature would just be meh in my opinion. Well, I suppose it depends on how well its done. Personally, I prefer the striders and such in their 'unique situations'.
 
Well not a Boss fight in the Gonarch sense of "BLAST THE HELL OUT OF IT", more in the Tentacle room sense where the only way to defeat him is through the puzzle. Of course now with the Source engine you can get like 100 times more creative with a boss-puzzle
 
I'd go with that. A puzzle boss? Sure. But I couldn't take a big-ass blast the hell out of it enemy in Half-life.
 
Yeah thats what we have the striders for..I mean besides the fact that there battles are not always straightfoward its pretty much "Ok shoot me with rockets. Kthxbai"
 
Because a boss fight serves a couple gameplay purposes. The first is that after going through swarms of a particular enemy, tedium sets in, and you stop feeling there's a reward for your hard work. You can mix it up a little by throwing in interesting ways to fight these enemies, or put different enemies into the scene or following scenes (say one scene where you fight zombies, and the next you fight some antlions, and then the combine come in and you have to fight both antlions AND Overwatch), and you'll be progressing through the game but even with diversity it can get a little repetitive. This is why Valve intersperses puzzle sections into the game, to break up the monotony of combat. A boss fight serves the same purpose.

Imagine, you've been fighting what could be considered "minions," the normal, standard enemies in Half-Life 2. Yes, there are the larger miniboss creatures like gunships and antlion guards and striders to present a larger challenge, but in my opinion none of those fights really filled me with the type of excitement and sense of accomplishment as an actual boss fight did. Maybe it's because they're bested with only a few rockets, or because their deaths are somewhat lackluster (except for the gunship crashing through the roof in Episode One). If you listen to the commentary, Valve even remarks that the reward for destroying the gunship is the chance to look at it up close. Gamers need rewards as motivation, that's the basic principle of gaming. Without rewards we'd be just going through the motions and working towards the next checkpoint. Boss fights serve to motivate the player; their deaths give players a greater feeling of achievement than hordes of enemies or even stronger, mini-boss style creatures.

Secondly, bosses are aweing. They're often massive and appear with grand entrances that make players stop and go, "Whoa," or, "Didn't expect that to happen." Remember the tentacle? You walk into the rocket control room, about to talk to this scientist, and all of a sudden he gets thrown against the wall as a tentacle rips through the glass, smashes him up against the computer bank along the wall, and drags him across the floor and out of the room into the blast pit. That was an incredible scene. The gargantua's debut, where it's trouncing the marines and then starts chasing after you; I tell you I've never felt so much adrenaline from a game (and to be honest, even in real life) as knowing that lumbering brute was after me, right on my heels. The gonarch and the Nihilanth don't have very "grand" entrances themselves, no flash or flare, but they have ambience and mood that more than makes up for it. The gonarch's cry when you enter her island, followed by the hard-thumping beat of the music, as she steps out from behind a rock into view. The entire scene after the factory, just before the Nihilanth, hopping across rocks toward the ominous red portal in the distance, hearing him call to you; the faint whisper of other voices in the air as you approach the swirling vortex. Then darkness, then the Nihilanth in front of you, massive, so close, calling, "FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEMAAAAAAAAAAN"...that is a powerful scene. And lastly, recall the old E3 videos of the hydra. A very unexpected, tentacle-esque moment where a combine soldier is pulled under by this glowing blue whip, rising from some depth in the sewer that you can't see. And by the sound of what was to be, the tentacle worming its way after you, knocking things over and killing NPCs and other creatures in its way, that's a boss fight (except for the fact that it was actually no fun to fight, so says Valve). But the point is that bosses act as what I call "creature vistas;" they are impressive enemies that serve to reward the player for time played, for reaching a certain point, and are designed to stun them or give them that "wow" factor that normal creatures just don't give.

The third thing they do for gameplay is act as gates. Bosses are clever ways to impede the player, and set a clear goal for them. This actually ties in to the other two reasons for bosses, because having a goal motivates people to keep playing, and they understand that by defeating the boss they will be rewarded, both with the satisfaction that they killed the big-bad, and that they are now allowed to progress to the next section. In the case of bosses who are too strong to beat with conventional weaponry, they are gates that force the player to explore and find clever ways of defeating them, adding in a puzzle element. Again I bring up the tentacle because this boss made you go to lengths to defeat it; you couldn't bypass it unless you went to areas around the blast pit and activated mini-goals. This forced exploration gives developers the chance to show players something they might otherwise miss, or include other little scenes or points of interest while still tying together the whole theme of "I need to go here or do this to defeat the boss...but oh, hey, look at that." This forced sidetracking can be a benefit to players, giving them more things to do and more things to look at. And again, when you're all done, you can look back and reflect at all the stuff you had to do to beat the boss, and that's motivation.

Gaming hasn't moved on from boss fights, and I don't think it ever will. These three points will always be necessary in games, and bosses fill them. Even if you look at how the "boss" battles in Episode One were set up, they follow these basic requirements. You're presented with a creature in a somewhat dynamic entry, you're blocked from progression until you beat it, and you're rewarded for your work afterward. This is the boss battle formula, but they're playing it without using bosses. We need a BOSS to be set in this formula, not striders or gunships.
 
Whilst you raise several interesting points Darkside, boss battles are still somewhat tedious additions to the gameplay. First they set back the pace. One moment you are wafting through enemies, the next you are plonked in some boss arena fighting a large, powerful and unique enemy. There goes some of the plausability while were at it. Ever play Quake 4? Throughout the game were presented with really poor, low-stabs at a boss battle where the boss makes his grand entrance and tries to wow us with his size. But the size of these beasts are another problem - its just a flashback to another era of gaming.

Half-life 2/EP1 are plausible in that we don't have to fight some large, one-of-a-kind enemy with the urge to plug it with bullets. You fight the 'bosses' in plausible situations. I can't think of a single moment throughout the game where a boss would have been necessary. Simply coming across such an enemy is just bleh, and again, sets back any real pace the game was building up. I've never looked upon the tentacle as an actual boss, more of a obstacle. A boss is something stupid and overly large that you plug at with your bullets, the tentacle served more of a puzzle and I thoroughly enjoyed turning on the blast thingy and watching as the tentacle was burnt to a crispy.

But that isn't a boss battle. Its simply a puzzle you need to overcome, and I enjoy those, just not cheap bosses. Gonarch or Nihalinth for instance - those two really set back the pace.
 
Samon said:
But that isn't a boss battle. Its simply a puzzle you need to overcome, and I enjoy those, just not cheap bosses. Gonarch or Nihalinth for instance - those two really set back the pace.
Click to expand...
I'll have to disagree with you on that one. I really enjoyed fighting the Nihilanth, and I felt that he was a fitting end to Half-Life. He took a massive amount of damage, even to the point where even if you were an ammo hog like me you'd end up depleting most of it by the time you were done with him, but I actually enjoyed that rather than finding it just a repetition in shooting at this big thing.

The gonarch, that was an OK battle. It's not something I like to go back and play but I think it was an important scene and she was necessary as a boss, if for no other reason than to showcase where the headcrabs came from. And I think the multisectioned fighting was nice too, playing this game of cat and mouse with this creature.

In both cases I never felt the pace slow down. In fact because of the gonarch's placement in the second area of Xen, it was actually a step up in pace. The actual Xen chapter, that first map, it's really a very slow area. You can walk around at your leisure and you don't have anything to really bother you; you only progress after you release the telnorps and activate the portal. Before that...slow going. So when you step through the portal and there's this giant thing coming at you, I thought that was good pacing.
The Nihilanth too...that was an energetic fight. Not frantic, but energetic. Having to dodge his projectiles, watch out for vortigaunts and controllers, having to ramp up on the bounce pads...I thought that was a good fight, even a great fight.

Don't get me wrong, I liked the strider battle and gunship battle in Episode One. I just think that we could do with a boss now that we're out in the open, in the wilderness. There are so many opportunities for a boss here...gonarch, gargantua, antlion king, something new...I should also say it doesn't necessarily have to be something BIG to be a boss. Gonarch and gargantua aren't all that big to begin with...much smaller than a strider. We simply need something that fits the criteria of a boss that would be more of a one-time encounter, something that isn't commonplace, and that requires a hailstorm of ammunition and/or a puzzle to defeat.
 
The Garg was a puzzle boss in "Power Up", but you had the option of grenading the shit outta it. I liked the fact that you had an option, different ways of killing a "boss". Now, IMO, that's how you can make a boss-fight interesting, offering more than one way to kill it. But I'm not sure if such non-linearity would work well in the HL universe.
 
About the boss issue, I personally don't have any gripes with the concept of either blasting the Hell out of it or using a puzzle to defeat a boss. It's just the implimentation of it that can troublesome. Also the issue of if they can fit in an enviroment has to be addressed.

Bosses worked for the Xenians back in HL1 due to the unconventional biological feel they had. The fact that the early bosses could be defeated without huge protracted fights was a plus. The Gonarch as the first true HL1 boss requiring a big fight worked well, and was somewhat unique in how the fight was drawn out thoughout the entire chapter. I also found the Nihilanth to be a believible final boss as like the Gonarch and the headcrab species, it serves as the most powerful manifestation of the Vortigaunt race. The defeat of this being in order to end the Xenain invasion was a tangible goal, and made more sense for the Xen aliens then having to shut down portal generators while fighting off swarms of Controllers, Grunts, and Slaves. The Xenians like all other "demonic" and "biological" enemies in FPS gaming were very capable of producing bosses.

The same however can't be said for the Universial Union in HL2. The Combine unlike Xen make use of a proper military. This technologically-advanced foe does not rely on boss creatures, they instead resort to using creatures that can provide heavy firepower yet be mass-produced. Thus it would be odd to have some boss that dominates a Gunship or Strider, because the question of why they are not seen more often would arise. Even the Combine Advisors with their mental powers that would suit bosses well will most likey turn into physic versions of Gunships that can be taken down in 3-7 RPG shots. The fact that there are many of them makes the concept of turning them into full bosses farfetched.

However there is room yet for bosses in the HL2 world. Antlions seem to share the role of the main biological enemy with Headcrabs these days. Since the Antlions both have a heirarchy in place is shown with Guards and have not yet been seen in their natural dwellings yet, it would be believable to have to encounter an Antlion boss. If done properly, such a boss could act as an exciting final test of skills aganist these creatures. Upon killing this boss, the player would have great satisfaction in knowing he finally killed off the leader of those buggers that have harassed him since Highway 17.

If this fight could be implimented correctly by VALVe, I sure wouldn't mind taking a brief trip back to 1999-era HL gaming. ;)
 
There have been a lot of good ideas in this thread. Some of the things I would like to see and not see, which have probably already been repeated in prior pages. :p

Does Need
The surreal. The quirky. The bizzare. Whatever you want to call it. Episode 1 needed it. Seeing amazing, extraterrestrial things in a familiar environment and realizing how strange it all was really, really hooked me in during Half-life 2 vanilla (undead invasion during Ravenholm, scenic beach buggy sequence amidst beached ships, and so forth). I'de like to have my mind blown.

More human qualities in characters. The best part of Episode 1 for me was seeing Alyx's near breakdown in the Stalker train. After that, however, the characters become disturbingly efficient and pragmatic. Seeing how people respond in human terms to their inhuman and alien circumstance is always interesting. To this day I'm very, very intrigued by Father Gregory's character despite his brief appearance. We need more of that kind of development. Actually, we need more interesting personalities period.

Deviation from the immediate plot. Half-life 2 was filled with entertaining little mini-sequences such as Ravenholm and the Beach village attack which really made it feel like City 17 was a living, breathing world with stories happening all over the place. Episode 1 was always on point, with every single ally fighting toward the same goal and every single enemy trying to kill you. I'de like to see more self contained segments.

Tantalize us, Valve. I'm intrigued with the Half-life universe like I am little else. This has nothing to do with what is revealed, but rather what is not. It is said that when you are complete with a great sculpture it isn't because there is nothing left to add, but because there is nothing left to take away. The same can be said about Valve's story telling. I love this, and I love always having questions but, please, give us a little more insight into the alien worlds and creatures we are dealing with here. Don't tell us, of course, but show us.

More visual stimulation. I don't know about your average Half-life player, but I myself was raised on adventure games. Seeing interesting things is just as good a way to break up actions as using puzzles is. I love vistas, visual eye candy, and gratuitous filler on the screen.

New interactive content. Valve managed to make me forget about having very little in the way of actual new content during Episode 1, but I doubt they could pull it off again. I'm optimistic about the Hunters and black Antlions of Episode 2.

Doesn't Need

Extended Zombie/Antlion sequences. Variety is the spice of life, and I think plenty of reasons have already been shared as to why these kind of sequences are starting to overstay their welcome.

Puzzles for the sake of puzzling. Episode 1 had some very good puzzles and some mediocre ones. The ones toward the beginning, in which you had to shoot the anti-matter orbs into sockets was an example of a good (albeit easy) means of giving the player a rest between action sequences. However, leaving a ton of random objects and bombs lieing around a room (which was done several times later on) kind of detaches the player.

Too many allies. I started to miss the slow, paced, and steady "Thinking man's" gameplay toward the end of Half-life 2 and throughout most of Episode 1.
 
special-ed said:
New weapons! Being able to use the combine sniper rifle would be so badass. At least 5 new weapons, or perhaps modifications for the current weapons. Maybe instead of having an over-crowded inventory.. when you pick up lets say a sniper rifle it would replace the crossbow? Or an mp5 replacing the mp7 when you pick it up? Just thoughts.
Click to expand...
I like that idea! Why get more new weapons when you can just remove some from the game? A lot of weapons is fun though, so I'm not complaining. Anyone who's ever played Ratchet and Clank will agree that having more guns gives you more creative options in obliterating enemies.

And I quite liked the idea of no crowbar in Ep. 1's early stages. It was a challenge, a little something out of the comfort zone to keep us on edge. It wasn't easy in some parts, and it wasn't practicle either, but does it have to be? I like the crowbar, and if there's a need I feel for butting things with guns, I play Halo.
 
Leviticus said:
Tantalize us, Valve. I'm intrigued with the Half-life universe like I am little else. This has nothing to do with what is revealed, but rather what is not. It is said that when you are complete with a great sculpture it isn't because there is nothing left to add, but because there is nothing left to take away. The same can be said about Valve's story telling. I love this, and I love always having questions but, please, give us a little more insight into the alien worlds and creatures we are dealing with here. Don't tell us, of course, but show us.

More visual stimulation. I don't know about your average Half-life player, but I myself was raised on adventure games. Seeing interesting things is just as good a way to break up actions as using puzzles is. I love vistas, visual eye candy, and gratuitous filler on the screen.
Click to expand...
Heartily in agreeance on both counts.

Also, are you sure that black guard isn't just dark due to the lighting of the cave? I mean, a black antlion guard, that's getting a little far-fetched in my opinion. It's kind of like when you a company has an action figure mold that cost them like $10,000, so they decide to make different color versions of the same character with "upgrades" or "special abilities." But on the plus side, getting down into the depths with the grubs means there's a huge possibility for the antlion king.
 
Darkside55 said:
That requires a hailstorm of ammunition and/or a puzzle to defeat.
Click to expand...

I suppose it depends on how well its implemented. A boss could severely damage Half-life at this stage. So far its been coherent, and I wouldn't like to see that shattered due to some big-ass boss. I'm all for a puzzle boss though, so long as we don't have to plug it with ammo - its oh so gratingly old school to me, and its one of these reasons Sin episodes was pretty meh.
 
Samon said:
I suppose it depends on how well its implemented. A boss could severely damage Half-life at this stage. So far its been coherent, and I wouldn't like to see that shattered due to some big-ass boss. I'm all for a puzzle boss though, so long as we don't have to plug it with ammo - its oh so gratingly old school to me, and its one of these reasons Sin episodes was pretty meh.
Click to expand...
Aw, come on. You know you'd love to stick it to the antlion king. ;)

Resistance: "Dr. Freeman, this area is compromised due to all the antlion activity. Spawning season's over, and the grubs are just beginning to hatch. We need someone to clear out the infestation down there so we can secure the area for more camps."
Freeman: "..."
Resistance: "Alright, great. I knew you'd be up to it. Good luck Dr. Freeman, and be careful; I hear there's something big down there."

And then you descend, taking out antlions, blowing up guards, squashing grubs, going through a series of tunnels boring deep through the earth, finally coming out in a large underground cavern where the monstrous myrmidon rex is housed. Corpses of humans and animals lay strewn around the cave (which means ammo and small health vials for you), bones, eggs perhaps...and only drones here, regular antlions, no guards. A finite amount. You dispense with the swarm of minor antlions, and the king roars, and takes a swipe at you...

That'd be an awesome fight. From there you just plug the thing with bullets. Or alternatively, bring the ceiling down on his head. You could do it either way.
 
I prefer bringing the ceiling down on its head..better yet make that a puzzle :|
 
In light of recent updates, one thing EP2 doesn't need:

Difficulty reduction.
 
Bringing the ceiling down on it's head reminds me of that section in Jade Empire...but then again I love JE.
 
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