Iraq torture worse now than under Saddam
- Thread starter kirovman
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Absinthe
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I too have seen no incidents of kirovman insulting anybody. At least not in this thread. Nor have I seen him anywhere being intolerant of critique.
I can only conclude that Nemesis has something up his ass that's injecting delusions into his consciousness. Immediate removal is advised.
LOL at the "leftist groups". This should be good. Anybody could easily say the same of you.
I can only conclude that Nemesis has something up his ass that's injecting delusions into his consciousness. Immediate removal is advised.
LOL at the "leftist groups". This should be good. Anybody could easily say the same of you.
Sulkdodds
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I would interject at this point with the following:
"Torture may now be worse than it was under Saddam."
But! But! It's only maybe! Not conclusive!
Okay. So it may be worse, or it may not be quite so bad. What it isn't is non-existant, or incomparable. It's likely somewhere in the region of Saddam's brutality to be even considered alongside it. It's in the same ballpark. And that really does contradict the pledge of liberation the Coalition has given to Iraq.
Whether it's quantatively 'worse' than Saddam seems irrelevant.
That it's "out of control" is not.
"Torture may now be worse than it was under Saddam."
But! But! It's only maybe! Not conclusive!
Okay. So it may be worse, or it may not be quite so bad. What it isn't is non-existant, or incomparable. It's likely somewhere in the region of Saddam's brutality to be even considered alongside it. It's in the same ballpark. And that really does contradict the pledge of liberation the Coalition has given to Iraq.
Whether it's quantatively 'worse' than Saddam seems irrelevant.
That it's "out of control" is not.
Unfortunately, you're right...
But how much influence do the Americans have on internal affairs within the Iraqi government? They say the Iraqi government is a puppet controlled by America... If that was the case, there would be no torture.
Absinthe
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Did I call you a lefty at any point?
Not only does your personality blows ass, so does your reading comprehension!
...By the way, I didn't write "leftist groups".
kirovman
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If that was the case, why has the US handed power back over to them? If they knew torture would become rampant? They might as well have given control back to Saddam.
However, I believe there will be torture there, with or without American influence.
kirovman
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But surely if it's true that the American government's influence ensures that there's no torture, there'd be a way to keep influence, whilst handing back power also? There's no point in going to war, against the world's advice, then suddenly bowing to their pressure?
Sulkdodds
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PSST. I think he was saying that you are intolerant to criticism etc etc.
Does this sound like the actions of an administration that really gives a damn about people being abused?
If the US have no control over what they've set up there, then I suppose that means they can't take credit for anything. So the whole escapade was entirely pointless. Their goal, they claim, was to make things better - but if there is enough torture for an expert on the subject to even consider comparing it to Saddam, the US has failed in a very big way (as if that wasn't already apparent). They've failed on both practical and moral fronts.
Oh yes: while the current claimed reason for invading Iraq is compassion, we should remember it used to be WMDs, and before (after?) that, a connection to 9/11. Like the whole Identity Cards bullshit over here, where the Labour government started off claiming it'd stop terrorism, then that it'd just 'be easier', then that it'd stop identity theft - proving that they don't want to tell us the real reason, which means it's not a benevolent one - the Bush administration has all but disproved the claims of its own PR department by changing the story.
With that in mind, it may not be wholly surprising that such things are happening.
Wouldn't there? I direct your attention to Bush's latest attempts to have Guantanamo inmates tried in military tribunals where those tried could be denied a look at evidence against them and information gained through 'unusual methods' (including, by all indications, torture) will be admissable.Nemesis6 said:
Does this sound like the actions of an administration that really gives a damn about people being abused?
If the US have no control over what they've set up there, then I suppose that means they can't take credit for anything. So the whole escapade was entirely pointless. Their goal, they claim, was to make things better - but if there is enough torture for an expert on the subject to even consider comparing it to Saddam, the US has failed in a very big way (as if that wasn't already apparent). They've failed on both practical and moral fronts.
Oh yes: while the current claimed reason for invading Iraq is compassion, we should remember it used to be WMDs, and before (after?) that, a connection to 9/11. Like the whole Identity Cards bullshit over here, where the Labour government started off claiming it'd stop terrorism, then that it'd just 'be easier', then that it'd stop identity theft - proving that they don't want to tell us the real reason, which means it's not a benevolent one - the Bush administration has all but disproved the claims of its own PR department by changing the story.
With that in mind, it may not be wholly surprising that such things are happening.
KagePrototype
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pwnt
...wait, no more spammage plx
...wait, no more spammage plx
Tr0n
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Awwww you hurt my feelings.
Back on topic...Hmmmm I agree that it has gotten worse. I for one am glad to see Saddam out of power and as does many other people around the world. No one debates that it wasn't a good thing. What everyone is debating about is the way the war is/was handled and the reasons for it.
*Tr0n wipes sweat from his forehead
I tried my best to stay on topic, but damn it's hard.
Awwww you hurt my feelings.
My sincerest apologies. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings, if I wanted to hurt your feelings, I'd offend the South. Anyway, shouldn't you be busy trying to give AIDS back to the monkeys?
That's ironic coming from you, seeing that when we got this thread back on the right track, you derailed it. So how about it, champ? You think it's time to shut your self-righteous yap or is that bullshit-faucet you call your mouth permanently open?
Tr0n
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Tsk I expected something better. You can do better then that right?
Lets see, so far you've only come up with "aids and monkeys" then something about the south...Now something about it being ironic I said "enough with the silliness"..
Oh yea the stupidity post forgot that one as well. Which was actually your only good remark. It's funny you get shut down in a debate then start saying things about others. Instead of refuting what sulky said, you go after others?
Lets see, so far you've only come up with "aids and monkeys" then something about the south...Now something about it being ironic I said "enough with the silliness"..
Oh yea the stupidity post forgot that one as well. Which was actually your only good remark. It's funny you get shut down in a debate then start saying things about others. Instead of refuting what sulky said, you go after others?
Absinthe
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Stop being an idiot. I raised a point and you idiots freaked out. It's as simple as that. That's what I meant with the whole intolerance of criticism thing. You tell me to stop projecting, I tell you to stop pretending, how about that? The reason this has been derailed is because of you insulting me because you don't like the points I raise, and I'm too stubborn to let your crap just go by.
KagePrototype
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stop eet stop eet stop eet stop eet stop eet
Sulkdodds
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If all the other people in this thread are so immature, why not respond to the posts that are actually worth responding to? You're only feeding the flames otherwise. You accuse others of going off-topic, but you're no longer talking about the issue at hand either. Pardon me, but it does just seem as if you're being intolerant of any form of critique and resort to insults when you have nothing to say. I can't know if you have anything to say or not.Nemsis6 said:
I mean, I don't know you that well, but you present no other angle of yourself than someone who resorts to nonsense when confronted with something he doesn't like or disagrees with. Sound familiar?
Mechagodzilla
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The entire point of "pwnt" was to point out in a simple way that your arguments made absolutely no logical sense.
Such as:
-Having ALMOST as much torture as under Saddam is an acceptable thing.
-The UN's torture expert cannot be trusted on the topic of torture for unexplained reasons.
-"pwnt" is a acronym and an insult.
-We're stupid, intolerant, nonsensical, self-righteous pathetic, idiotic dumbasses - and worst of all, we're insulting!
-We're a "leftist group" because we disagree with you and/or McCarthy.
-America does not support torture.
-Torture in Iraq is actually caused by europe(???) and arabs.
-AIDS is funny(?)
...and probably more illogical arguments in the future.
The only thing you've said that makes sense is that american acts of torture are (vaguely) regrettable, but then you elaborated that they "barely happen at all" or whatever and that torture is pretty much entirely europe and the arab's fault.
(Decadent europeans and the arab race being the two biggest mythological enemies to average americans everywhere. Like the manticore.)
You've been rather consistently wrong throughout this thread and, when we joked about that fact, unable to take a joke either.
Such as:
-Having ALMOST as much torture as under Saddam is an acceptable thing.
-The UN's torture expert cannot be trusted on the topic of torture for unexplained reasons.
-"pwnt" is a acronym and an insult.
-We're stupid, intolerant, nonsensical, self-righteous pathetic, idiotic dumbasses - and worst of all, we're insulting!
-We're a "leftist group" because we disagree with you and/or McCarthy.
-America does not support torture.
-Torture in Iraq is actually caused by europe(???) and arabs.
-AIDS is funny(?)
...and probably more illogical arguments in the future.
The only thing you've said that makes sense is that american acts of torture are (vaguely) regrettable, but then you elaborated that they "barely happen at all" or whatever and that torture is pretty much entirely europe and the arab's fault.
(Decadent europeans and the arab race being the two biggest mythological enemies to average americans everywhere. Like the manticore.)
You've been rather consistently wrong throughout this thread and, when we joked about that fact, unable to take a joke either.
