LOST: Destiny Found

[brad92]

To substantiate Samon's point, I think we're also seeing definitive parallels on the Island in relation to MIB and Jacob's cause. The only way MIB can escape the Island is if he has every single one of the Candidates on his side. He is, therefore, trying to do his utmost to get them all together, and convince them to come along with him. Now we have Desmond, who is trying to do the exact same thing, albeit for an entirely different purpose, I am sure.

I think this is very important in determining the fate of both the ALT and On-Island realities. I'm getting this impression that the Losties don't have to defeat MIB on the Island - they have to defeat him in the ALT, where he has already been released and is already putting into place the things he needs to - for lack of a better way to say it - takeover.

Widmore makes it perfectly clear to both Jin and Desmond that if MIB leaves, "everyone will simply cease to be". I think, to put it all very simply, this might be an indication that the On-Island reality will vanish in favor of the ALT reality in the event MIB leaves.

So let us assume for a moment that MIB has indeed constructed the ALT reality. Now, the MIB would know who can stop him – he knows who’s on the candidate list. So this would allow him to craft wonderful lives for them. To give them everything they always wanted. To lead them to make all the right decisions. Why? So they wouldn’t sacrifice all of what they had gained in the Sideways World to defeat the MIB.

If you were Jack, would you give up a son who you’ve just reconnected with? If you were Ben, would you give up Alex being alive and off to college? And so on.

All of those Sideways characters have something to lose. Our 815 characters have nothing to lose – except escape from the Island. And only those characters who don’t yet believe their destiny is to destroy evil.

There’s something about the Sideways World, and for my money, it’s part of the MIB’s loophole.

paradise lost ring any bells? nope, its ****ing bedazzeled.

Like I said; first thing that came to mind.

Sorry if, you know, it ain't sophisticated enough.

 

[Sheepo]

But as we've said, not all of the situations are ideal. Sayid's life sucks. Sawyer's life isn't anything to write home about (but then, maybe he's supposed to meet Juliet). Sun was just shot.

 

[brad92]

Quite true. The theory isn't bullet-proof. But I think it's also important to note that both Sayid and Sawyer are hanging under MIB's banner in the original reality.

 

[Sheepo]

Sawyer, not quite. And if only those who join the MIB have shitty ATL lives, then um, what?

 

[brad92]

I wouldn't exactly go so far as to say they are 'shitty', though. They are not ideal, to be sure, but they are better lives than what they are leading on the Island, at least. Sayid at least has Nadia alive, regardless of the fact that he continues to resort to murder. Sawyer, too, has a life that is better in the ALT reality. He is able to come out and admit to Miles his deep resentment and anger. He also hasn't suffered the loss of, say, Juliet.

I think it's interesting to note, on the side, that everyone except Locke is without love.

 

[Asknoone]

They are not ideal, to be sure, but they are better lives than what they are leading on the Island, at least.

Are you sure? How do you define 'better', anyway.

 

[brad92]

I get the impression that they have more to lose in the ALT reality.

I don't know.

I was just spouting out some thoughts.

 

[Sheepo]

I'm sure many of you already knew this, but I only just noticed the other day that Mark Pellegrino (Jacob) is also Rita's ex-husband in Dexter.

/fun fact

 

[brad92]

Didn't know that, no.

 

[Warped]

is it possible that there are 2 evil look a-likes on the island right now?? and maybe they both have different motives?? cuz thats how it feels right now with Evil Locke and Evil Sayid. also its good to have Desmond and Penny back. i liked them both

 

[brad92]

is it possible that there are 2 evil look a-likes on the island right now?? and maybe they both have different motives?? cuz thats how it feels right now with Evil Locke and Evil Sayid. also its good to have Desmond and Penny back. i liked them both

Not exactly sure what you are getting at.

 

[Rizzo]

Sayid is still Sayid, only he's evil now, and feels no emotion.

 

[Avoidist]

It wasn't just Sayid that has had such a treatment, both Claire and Ben have also been revived in such a manner, though it's possible that the water was clear as opposed to murky when Ben was revived. Perhaps Sayid and Claire are more the "children of Smokey" in that a part of his essence has been used in reviving them in order to influence them.

More significantly though, and this is what I will crown as my brilliant new theory that I am sure someone has come up with before, is that the Alt reality is the world where the smoke monster is dead. This is why Ben is now a genuinely good person as he is free from Smokey's influence (i.e. he is unchanged from his revival in the temple as a child), and why the island is submerged (no need for the prison if the prisoner is gone).

Most of all, this explains why Desmond is such an incredibly important person, as he will be able to find the reason Smokey is dead in the Alt timeline and communicate that information to the Island timeline so they can kill him. He isn't unique in this regard, however his importance is that he is the best bridge between the worlds because he can survive otherwise deadly events. You want to send information between the worlds? You try to fry Desmond.

 

[Asknoone]

I think the Island has an importance quite outside of the feud between Jacob and the Man in Black; it is simply being improvised as a prison. If the Man in Black wants to "go home", then we can postulate that the Island came some time before him, and Jacob too. I am not convinced that with the defeat of the Man in Black comes a lack of purpose for the Island.

 

[brad92]

I think the Island has an importance quite outside of the feud between Jacob and the Man in Black.

I've no doubt that you are right. Indeed, in the event that the Island were to become meaningless after MIB is destroyed (as I've no doubt he will), that almost negates the significance of the 'Candidate' - whose job we are told is to go on protecting the Island after the conflict is over.

 

[Lucid]

That was fantastic.

I'm really loving the direction this is going in.

 

[xcellerate]

Spoiler

spoiler

It was better than I thought, normally I don't care much for hugo. Maybe it's obvious but I really feel like the plane has no importance at all to leaving the island.

 

[Sliver]

Eh, wasn't too thrilled with this weeks episode. Greatest part was

Spoiler

 

[Yorick]

I have mixed feelings about this week's episode.

Spoiler

- Jack was amazing as always.
- Ilana's death was so completely worthless.
- It was nice to get a reason for the whispers. I expected some kind of bullshit made up thing, but this sort of made sense, and was satisfying.
- It was good to see Michael without having to hear him stomp all over the island shouting WAAAALLLLLT.
- Great to see Libby, and I really love how things played out between her and Hugs.

- It's of interest to me exactly how Desmond is operating currently. Him showing up and saying just the right thing to people feels like the same thing Jacob was doing, though obviously for different reasons. His attempted murder of John Locke is interesting too, because it implies that he is still getting memories or feelings in the alt, not just from his life before, but as they're happening.

- Alternatively, he attempted to kill John Locke to recreate a moment from the old timeline to jog his memory, like the picnic did for Hurley. Like Charlie did for Desmond. But I don't buy that as much. Desmond doesn't know about the integral parts of people's lives like that, and attempted murder is a hell of a risk to take.

Also, when Libby was describing watching TV, and seeing Hurley in that commercial, and being overcome with emotion and not knowing why, the first thing I thought was the scene we had of Daniel Faraday crying watching the news about 815, and not knowing what. I'm not sure what it means, but I think it means something.

 

[No Limit]

Spoiler

My theory is he tried to kill Locke so that Locke couldn't return to this new universe. I think someone here mentioned it but I think they get off this island by somehow merging with the other reality as long as they are alive in that other reality. That's why Locke needs all of them to leave with him. Now he is screwed.

 

[TwwIX]

Spoiler

My theory is he tried to kill Locke so that Locke couldn't return to this new universe. I think someone here mentioned it but I think they get off this island by somehow merging with the other reality as long as they are alive in that other reality. That's why Locke needs all of them to leave with him. Now he is screwed.

Fake Locke=/Alternate Reality Locke

I think Desmond either tried to jog AR Locke's memory or kill him so that he could return to the original timeline and confront Fake Locke.

 

[Remus]

Greatest part was

Spoiler

I know it wasn't meant to be funny, but I LOL'd.

Take that biach.

 

[Yorick]

Spoiler

My theory is he tried to kill Locke so that Locke couldn't return to this new universe. I think someone here mentioned it but I think they get off this island by somehow merging with the other reality as long as they are alive in that other reality. That's why Locke needs all of them to leave with him. Now he is screwed.

Fake Locke=/Alternate Reality Locke

I think Desmond either tried to jog AR Locke's memory or kill him so that he could return to the original timeline and confront Fake Locke.

Wait wait wait. Hold on kids.

Desmond doesn't know that the Smoke Monster is posing as John Locke. He actually believes that John Locke pushed him into the well. Remember, Desmond has been away from the Island for quite some time. It was either a memory jog or a revenge hit, but it definitely wasn't "I've got to stop the Smoke Monster".

To my knowledge, Desmond has no idea about the Smoke Monster, Jacob, the Candidates, or even that these people were stuck in 1977. He was in hiding with Penny for years, popping up only to tell Eloise a message from Daniel, and then getting shot by Ben, which brought him to his current predicament.

 

[hot564231]

Spoiler

Throw the Desmond down the well, so my people can be free!

 

[No Limit]

Wait wait wait. Hold on kids.

Desmond doesn't know that the Smoke Monster is posing as John Locke. He actually believes that John Locke pushed him into the well. Remember, Desmond has been away from the Island for quite some time. It was either a memory jog or a revenge hit, but it definitely wasn't "I've got to stop the Smoke Monster".

To my knowledge, Desmond has no idea about the Smoke Monster, Jacob, the Candidates, or even that these people were stuck in 1977. He was in hiding with Penny for years, popping up only to tell Eloise a message from Daniel, and then getting shot by Ben, which brought him to his current predicament.

Hmm...thats a good point. I forgot about that.

 

[swan_song1973]

Wait wait wait. Hold on kids.

Desmond doesn't know that the Smoke Monster is posing as John Locke. He actually believes that John Locke pushed him into the well. Remember, Desmond has been away from the Island for quite some time. It was either a memory jog or a revenge hit, but it definitely wasn't "I've got to stop the Smoke Monster".

To my knowledge, Desmond has no idea about the Smoke Monster, Jacob, the Candidates, or even that these people were stuck in 1977. He was in hiding with Penny for years, popping up only to tell Eloise a message from Daniel, and then getting shot by Ben, which brought him to his current predicament.

exactly, i think desmond is trying to get locke and jack to interact in the FST.

 

[Yorick]

exactly, i think desmond is trying to get locke and jack to interact in the FST.

Theyyyy already did.

And do you know what the odds are that Locke will be taken to the same hospital that Jack works at and will actually get Jack as a doctor? That's a hell of a coincidence to bank on. And he was going pretty damn fast, too, that wasn't a "let me ding you so you have to go to the hospital", that was more like "die bitch"

 

[swan_song1973]

Theyyyy already did.

And do you know what the odds are that Locke will be taken to the same hospital that Jack works at and will actually get Jack as a doctor? That's a hell of a coincidence to bank on. And he was going pretty damn fast, too, that wasn't a "let me ding you so you have to go to the hospital", that was more like "die bitch"

i'd put good dough on it.

 

[Sheepo]

My post was originally going to be "DESMOND HUME: INTERDIMENSIONAL MATCHMAKER' but holy shit, that ending.

Desmond doesn't know that the Smoke Monster is posing as John Locke. He actually believes that John Locke pushed him into the well.

While I'm definitely not counting it out, I think there's a decent chance Desmond was aware that it wasn't John he was dealing with. Not a single person, that I remember, who has met with John since Jacob died hasn't said something along the lines of 'That isn't John Locke', and there was something odd about the way Desmond answered him too. Not to mention that Locke wasn't acting normal (usually "Do you know who I am?" is a pretty good indication that something's off, when it's some one who should definitely know you). However, it's very much possible that he was telling the truth. Either way, Desmond in the ATL could very well have no idea of the difference, as we have no idea what kind of connection the survivor's have to the normal timeline, especially not Desmond's. Guy in wheelchair, looks exactly the same, hit to kill.

I don't think Ilana's death was worthless, but it was too sudden and slightly comical. And yes, the 'Run over this guy so he'll go see another guy' theory is dumb, Jack probably will meet up with John, so that should be fun.

 

[Asknoone]

Charlie spoke of near-death experiences to provoke those hidden memories; I thought it was kind of obvious what Desmond was up to there.

 

[huntingbear]

Charlie spoke of near-death experiences to provoke those hidden memories; I thought it was kind of obvious what Desmond was up to there.

my thoughts exactly....you people are looking far too deep into this

 

[Sheepo]

That makes sense I suppose, but I still find it to be a bit of a stretch. Whether he intended it or not though, probably safe to say it'll happen.

 

[Raziaar]

Why is it that people think the only way to destroy an airplane is to blow it up?

Rip up the cockpit... destroy the windows, puncture tons of holes in the airframe, bend the turbofans or break the engines.

Geez. DYNAMITE DOESN'T SOLVE EVERYTHING! lol

 

[brad92]

For Americans it does.

 

[hool10]

When Jack touches John Locke in the emergency room, will John remember that he could walk on the island in his alternate reality? Thus Jack performs the surgery like he did on his paralyzed ex-wife making John walk again in the alternate reality?

 

[brad92]

That would be several shades of awesome.

 

[Yorick]

While I'm definitely not counting it out, I think there's a decent chance Desmond was aware that it wasn't John he was dealing with. Not a single person, that I remember, who has met with John since Jacob died hasn't said something along the lines of 'That isn't John Locke', and there was something odd about the way Desmond answered him too. Not to mention that Locke wasn't acting normal (usually "Do you know who I am?" is a pretty good indication that something's off, when it's some one who should definitely know you). However, it's very much possible that he was telling the truth. Either way, Desmond in the ATL could very well have no idea of the difference, as we have no idea what kind of connection the survivor's have to the normal timeline, especially not Desmond's. Guy in wheelchair, looks exactly the same, hit to kill.

That's very true but I suppose it comes down to how it's working. I mean, I had thought that Desmond's shared experience between the realities ended when he woke up, which was long before he met Bizarro John Locke. So Alt-Desmond wouldn't know that Island-Desmond was thrown into a well.

I think Samon's probably right that Desmond is probably just going to ridiculous extremes to give him a near-death experience and jog his memory. Hurley and Daniel had love on the island which helped them remember, since love apparently transcends reality. John Locke doesn't. I don't really like the idea that he's just trying to rub people out, but it seems likely.

 

[brad92]

Doesn't John have Helen, though?

 

[Asknoone]

Yes, but that was not an experience of it on the Island.

 

[brad92]

Touche. Yes, quite right.

Desmond doesn't know that the Smoke Monster is posing as John Locke.

Are you quite sure?

And do you know what the odds are that Locke will be taken to the same hospital that Jack works at and will actually get Jack as a doctor? That's a hell of a coincidence to bank on.

Considering that we are talking about, you know, LOST, I am not so sure I understand what logic you are applying to this belief.

I mean, good gracious, to use one of a plethora of examples, what were the odds of Shannon's father and Sarah Shephard both colliding into each other, and ending up at the very same hospital that Jack worked at?

What were the odds that Sawyer and Christian both met up at that same bar together?

The list is endless.

Since when were outlandish coincidences considered...outlandish...in Lost?

Spoiler

You know, considering what just happened to Locke, and the fact we're getting a Jack-centric episode next week in "The Last Recruit", I have no doubt that this very scenario involving another Locke/Jack ALT interaction will occur.