LOST: Destiny Found

[Asknoone]

You are all ridiculous and hilarious.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

I think its time to move on.

 

[Letters]

I thought the finale ended up being pretty good. Every time one of the characters in the "sideways"/pre-afterlife type world remembered their life in the other world, it tugged on my heartstrings just a bit.

Yeah, a lot of the crazy, cooky stuff on that goes on on that island wasn't really explained, but it's stuff that, to me, didn't really need to be explained. A lot of it is interesting just -because- it's mysterious. The main thing I was looking for from this finale was the tying together of the two different worlds they've been showing this season. How they did it may not have been the most exciting or technical way, but it's something I can accept as satisfying after a bit of thought. The island ended up bringing this group of people together so closely that they end up "moving on" together... how sweet.

 

[No Limit]

Hey I'm just going along with what you said. I'd love to hear a rational argument against my point of view from someone who actually understood the show and just didn't agree with the direction.

I had a pretty lengthy discussion with a friend of mine last night who thought the Island was "purgatory" from the very beginning, which I don't agree with at all, but he was able to clearly make his case and provide explanations and examples of why he thought so.

Of course, unlike you, he also reads books.

I don't understand how you can be so angry about this show's finale. It's pretty obvious that even from the beginning, it was never meant for you. There's an analogy to be made where you're an ape who picks up a work of Shakespeare and, finding it has no pictures, defecates all over it.

I'm not the one that is angry. Disappointed? Yes. But I have better things to get angry about. And I'm not here calling people that think they know better retarded or stupid.

You fail to understand that not everyone out there reads books on their free time so literary themes don't necessarily matter to us. What matters is the mystery and the suspense. And that's how this show was built up as. For anyone to pretend that the island wasn't all that significant to the story is a cop out. But again, what do I know?

It's as if I built the worlds greatest application that would make anyone's life easier, but I made the UI in a way that only hardcore computer programmers could use it. Then when someone complained that they couldn't use my awesome application I would call them ****ing retarded.

 

[Yorick]

That's your opinion, and you're certainly entitled to it, but you clearly aren't seeing the entire picture. The problem isn't that you feel cheated, the problem is that you feel cheated because you don't understand the show enough to respect the direction it went in. You've said yourself that you don't think of it in terms of themes, but as suspense and mystery, and that's fine, but being disappointed because it's not what you thought it was is a flaw on your part, not the writer's.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

You fail to understand that not everyone out there reads books on their free time so literary themes don't necessarily matter to us. What matters is the mystery and the suspense. And that's how this show was built up as. For anyone to pretend that the island wasn't all that significant to the story is a cop out. But again, what do I know?

And you fail to understand that most of the Islands mysteries were answered, just towards the end the writers gave us very basic explanations on some of the more important things regarding the island, but that goes with theme of faith. It's up to you whether or not to believe if the light is really everything everyone says it is.

 

[No Limit]

That's your opinion, and you're certainly entitled to it, but you clearly aren't seeing the entire picture. The problem isn't that you feel cheated, the problem is that you feel cheated because you don't understand the show enough to respect the direction it went in. You've said yourself that you don't think of it in terms of themes, but as suspense and mystery, and that's fine, but being disappointed because it's not what you thought it was is a flaw on your part, not the writer's.

I thought what I thought because the writers built the show up that way. You don't set up this giant mystery for 6 years then just say "**** it, you figure it out yourself, we wanted this to be about the people and faith".

And you fail to understand that most of the Islands mysteries were answered, just towards the end the writers gave us very basic explanations on some of the more important things regarding the island, but that goes with theme of faith. It's up to you whether or not to believe if the light is really everything everyone says it is.

Why is it up to me? You really think that after 6 years to say "well you decide what the island is" isn't a cop out? I bet you loved the sopranos ending since you got to decide what happened next yourself?

 

[Yorick]

I thought what I thought because the writers built the show up that way. You don't set up this giant mystery for 6 years then just say "**** it, you figure it out yourself, we wanted this to be about the people and faith".

Let me see if I can explain this to you. Themes don't just "pop up" at the end.

LOST was always about people and faith.

Remember pushing the goddamn button to "Save the world" and the big fight over what happens if you don't? Remember "Boone was a sacrifice the Island demanded"? REMEMBER MAN OF SCIENCE MAN OF FAITH?

****s sakes it's like you walked into a movie late knowing just the trailer and caught the last 10 minutes and were pissed about it.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

Tbh, I don't think you would've been satisfied with any answer that was given to you on "what the island is" even though the show gives you just enough information so that you can think about it and talk to people about what you thought it was instead of just complaining that you never got an answer.

Also I loved the sorpanos finale, because it also fit with the theme of the show, but I guess you didn't get that one either.

 

[No Limit]

Let me see if I can explain this to you. Themes don't just "pop up" at the end.

LOST was always about people and faith.

And the island was never of any significance?

Tbh, I don't think you would've been satisfied with any answer that was given to you on "what the island is" even though the show gives you just enough information so that you can think about it and talk to people about what you thought it was instead of just complaining that you never got an answer.

Also I loved the sorpanos finale, because it also fit with the theme of the show, but I guess you didn't get that one either.

No, I'm not satisfied with your cop out answer. They gave us no details. For all we know everything they were doing with the island was a total waste of time aside from the fact it brought them all together. Wow, how wonderful, as if there aren't better ways to bring people together.

And if you loved the sopranos finale then I guess that just proves what I'm saying. There are those of you that think you are smarter than everyone else and then there are the rest of us. I have not talked to a single person that was satisfied with the ending of the sopranos, but again, what do I know? I don't cruise around message boards talking about literary themes.

 

[Yorick]

The Island is still of significance, but the show wasn't just about the Island. The show wasn't about the Journey of the Island. We don't get to see when the Island begins or when it ends, because that was never the point of the show. That was never the plan.

People like you are the reason that George Lucas put "Midichlorians" into the prequels.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

Lost Talk: I'd like to think that anyone who stumbled upon the Island while Hurley was the protector was greeted by him and he sits them down and explains whats going on using Star Wars analogies.

 

[No Limit]

The Island is still of significance, but the show wasn't just about the Island. The show wasn't about the Journey of the Island. We don't get to see when the Island begins or when it ends, because that was never the point of the show. That was never the plan.

People like you are the reason that George Lucas put "Midichlorians" into the prequels.

It wasn't about the journey of the island to you. To most other people it was. And that's certainly how the show was developed when you consider the story of Jacob. If what you say is true, that this was mostly about the people then you didn't need the story of Jacob, because you didn't need to know where he came from. Yet the entire 6th season was based around Jacob and his evil brother (yet we will never know if he was actually evil, guess that's another thing we can decide for ourselves). For you to pretend that this was all about the people and the island wasn't that important is absurd.

 

[Tyguy]

And you fail to understand that most of the Islands mysteries were answered, just towards the end the writers gave us very basic explanations on some of the more important things regarding the island, but that goes with theme of faith. It's up to you whether or not to believe if the light is really everything everyone says it is.

Look, I read quite a bit, I have an in depth knowledge of literary devices, and I am able to spot a theme when I see it. But simply identifying the themes does not translate into a higher appreciation for the show. We would all agree that many books, shows, movies, etc. have very easily distinguishable themes but sucked in the long run.

In the show's defense, the development of these themes was done quite well. But don't take that and automatically make the inference that clever writing is the only important aspect of a great show.

The appeals of this show, in my opinion, were the unknowns associated with the island and the hailstorm of possibilities given to the viewer to base an opinion. There were literally THOUSANDS of theories from viewers who were attempting to explain the elements you deem negligible, most of which being scientific in nature. This tells me a large fan base was devoted to the scientific elements of the show, largely because that was the premise of LOST from the start. Every episode was another chance to get an answer.

So why is it that I can't ask what the island is without evoking a fury amongst some of you? Whether you like it or not, the island is the most important aspect of this show. It was the platform for which all of these character relationships occurred. Wanting to know what the characters were fighting for is completely reasonable and you have to understand our annoyance when faith was used to fill in that blank. I love science and LOST tickled that part of me only to never address that which kept me glued to the TV.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

So why is it that I can't ask what the island is without evoking a fury amongst some of you? Whether you like it or not, the island is the most important aspect of this show. It was the platform for which all of these character relationships occurred. Wanting to know what the characters were fighting for is completely reasonable and you have to understand our annoyance when faith was used to fill in that blank. I love science and LOST tickled that part of me only to never address that which kept me glued to the TV.

We got a really vague answer to what the island was. Even Jacob who before season 6 we thought was all knowing, turned out didn't know jack shit about the island he was protecting. He was simply told to protect it. Were simply told that the light at the heart of the island NEEDS to be protected. Jacob's mother tells us its the light in "all of us", so going off that you can assume that whatever it is, it probably is directly related to all of creation.

And honestly, I think thats the best answer they could have given us. Something very vague. Kind of like the force (pre-midichlorians). It simply exists in all of us, and everything and is the most important thing in that particular universe. I think to go any farther into it and give us some hardcore scientific explanation about the island would have ruined the entire thing.

 

[Yorick]

Look, I read quite a bit, I have an in depth knowledge of literary devices, and I am able to spot a theme when I see it. But simply identifying the themes does not translate into a higher appreciation for the show. We would all agree that many books, shows, movies, etc. have very easily distinguishable themes but sucked in the long run.

In the show's defense, the development of these themes was done quite well. But don't take that and automatically make the inference that clever writing is the only important aspect of a great show.

The appeals of this show, in my opinion, were the unknowns associated with the island and the hailstorm of possibilities given to the viewer to base an opinion. There were literally THOUSANDS of theories from viewers who were attempting to explain the elements you deem negligible, most of which being scientific in nature. This tells me a large fan base was devoted to the scientific elements of the show, largely because that was the premise of LOST from the start. Every episode was another chance to get an answer.

So why is it that I can't ask what the island is without evoking a fury amongst some of you? Whether you like it or not, the island is the most important aspect of this show. It was the platform for which all of these character relationships occurred. Wanting to know what the characters were fighting for is completely reasonable and you have to understand our annoyance when faith was used to fill in that blank. I love science and LOST tickled that part of me only to never address that which kept me glued to the TV.

See, that's how a post should be made.

Tyguy, I certainly see where you're coming from. But what I'm wondering is this. There are certain things about the Island that wouldn't make sense, even with some faux-science explanation, it just wouldn't seem like enough. When you consider things like the Island moving, immortality, or time travel, how can you explain those scientifically? And even if you could, wouldn't it just feel cheapened?

I think that Lost actually does more to honour their viewers by doing it this way. It doesn't take them by the hand and say "Okay, this is exactly what it is". It's always been a show about making your own inferences and discussing what you thought was going on, what you thought it was about. I feel like that's still the case.

The Island is whatever you think it is, and that's what it has always been.

 

[No Limit]

See, that's how a post should be made.

Tyguy, I certainly see where you're coming from. But what I'm wondering is this. There are certain things about the Island that wouldn't make sense, even with some faux-science explanation, it just wouldn't seem like enough. When you consider things like the Island moving, immortality, or time travel, how can you explain those scientifically? And even if you could, wouldn't it just feel cheapened?

I think that Lost actually does more to honour their viewers by doing it this way. It doesn't take them by the hand and say "Okay, this is exactly what it is". It's always been a show about making your own inferences and discussing what you thought was going on, what you thought it was about. I feel like that's still the case.

The Island is whatever you think it is, and that's what it has always been.

So why bring the story of Jacob and his brother in to it? Without that episode the end result would have been exactly the same.

 

[Yorick]

So why bring the story of Jacob and his brother in to it? Without that episode the end result would have been exactly the same.

The episode served to help understand the motives of Jacob and The Smoke Monster. Again, it comes down to faith or science. The Man in Black believed in science, he knew there must be more than the Island, but Jacob just did what he was told.

I think it says something about "Blind" faith, and we didn't see that in our protagonists. John Locke believed in the Island because it healed him, because it spoke to him. and John grew to believe in the Island as well because of the things he saw. The Man in Black didn't care about anything else, he just wanted to get off the Island, and Jack was like that early on.

It's important to the mythology, I think, to establish the differences between these people. If after Jacob died, the Island was left to someone else, and we knew nothing of Jacob, we might think history would just repeat itself. But through Jack, and then Hurley and Ben, we know things would be different.

 

[No Limit]

The episode served to help understand the motives of Jacob and The Smoke Monster. Again, it comes down to faith or science. The Man in Black believed in science, he knew there must be more than the Island, but Jacob just did what he was told.

I think it says something about "Blind" faith, and we didn't see that in our protagonists. John Locke believed in the Island because it healed him, because it spoke to him. and John grew to believe in the Island as well because of the things he saw. The Man in Black didn't care about anything else, he just wanted to get off the Island, and Jack was like that early on.

It's important to the mythology, I think, to establish the differences between these people. If after Jacob died, the Island was left to someone else, and we knew nothing of Jacob, we might think history would just repeat itself. But through Jack, and then Hurley and Ben, we know things would be different.

But Jacob and the MIB had absolutely no meaning on the story after everything was said and done. They knew nothing about anything. So if anything to point that out just ruined the mystery around them and shifted that mystery to some light coming out of the ground. If they weren't going to explain the light they shouldn't have explained Jacob nor the MIB. According to the logic you guys are using the ending would have been just as a good if not better if they left that part hanging. And to me personally I think the ending would have been better if we were never introduced to the light nor was Jacob's and MIB's orgin explained.

 

[Yorick]

I have no idea what the hell you're talking about any more. I feel like you're saying that because our characters are dead at the end, nothing they did in life matters.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

Except right there in that post you quoted is why they were meaningful to the story. I dont understand why you have to look at everything from the perspective of "Did it provide me with an answer to what the island was? No? It's useless I don't want it in my Lost." I mean hell you could say the same thing about almost every flash back ever. That majority of them had nothing to do with the Island, they simply existed to give the characters motivation.

 

[No Limit]

I have no idea what the hell you're talking about any more. I feel like you're saying that because our characters are dead at the end, nothing they did in life matters.

No, what I'm saying is why explain where Jacob and the MIB came from when you can't explain the island itself. What is the point?

Jacob and MIB knew nothing. Atleast before the episode where they explained Jacob and the MIB there was a lot of mystery behind those characters. In that epsiode that mystery got shifted to some light coming out of the ground which would never be explained.

So if they weren't going to explain what the light is, why Jacob can run around the planet and the MIB can't, as well as all the other things that were left hanging why even explain Jacob and MIB in the first place? What was the point of that? It added nothing to the story.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

why Jacob can run around the planet and the MIB can't.

Because Jacob made the rules to this game.

I dont know why I am answering this because I am starting to get the feeling that you're not really reading anyone's posts just kind of quoting and saying the same thing over and over and over.

 

[Yorick]

I don't agree with you. That episode showed that MIB and Jacob are just men, and underwent their own journeys with their own struggles. The Island was supernatural regardless of the light. I think it shifted the focus back to where it belongs to learn that Jacob was not the "godly" man the Others thought he was.

 

[No Limit]

I don't agree with you. That episode showed that MIB and Jacob are just men, and underwent their own journeys with their own struggles. The Island was supernatural regardless of the light. I think it shifted the focus back to where it belongs to learn that Jacob was not the "godly" man the Others thought he was.

Right, but it went from making them the focus as these godly all knowing man to them not knowing anything and all the mystery being shifted to some light which would never be explained. Is that the best way to go storywise?

I would have personally prefered for them not to explain Jacob and MIB in such great detail if they weren't going to explain why Jacob could make the rules (and what those rules actually were), why the MIB turned in to smoke, why the MIB couldn't leave the island while Jacob could, how Jacob could bring people over, and all the other things they left you hanging on. If they weren't going to explain all that why even explain where Jacob and the MIB came from in the first place?

 

[No Limit]

Because Jacob made the rules to this game.

What rules? We kept hearing about the rules Jacob came up with but we never actually knew what those rules were aside from nobody can leave the island (without knowing why). Nor did we know what rules Jacob could and couldn't make. On one hand Jacob is this mysterious person that has all this control over who can come to and leave the island. On the other hand he knows absolutely nothing. That makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

I think it's made pretty clear right at the end that being protector of the island means you get to decide how to run things. Jacob was just really shitty at his job.
Ben says to Hurley at the end "Well thats how Jacob ran things. We can do it differently."

Hell it's even foreshadowed in Across the Sea when little kid MiB and Jacob are playing their game and MiB is all "Well one day you can make up the rules to your own game."

 

[No Limit]

I think it's made pretty clear right at the end that being protector of the island means you get to decide how to run things. Jacob was just really shitty at his job.
Ben says to Hurley at the end "Well thats how Jacob ran things. We can do it differently."

Hell it's even foreshadowed in Across the Sea when little kid MiB and Jacob are playing their game and MiB is all "Well one day you can make up the rules to your own game."

I understand that. But Jacob's rules didn't really mean anything, did they? Whitmore could come and leave. So could Ben. But the black smoke couldn't. The question is why, and that was never answered. So if you aren't going to answer that question. Nor are you going to answer whether or not the MIB is actually evil, why even explain them in the first place?

The answer is because the audiance wouldn't have accepted that these 2 figures which were made to be central to the plot were not explained. So they give you this crappy cop out about them not really knowing anything then not explaining anything after that.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

I understand that. But Jacob's rules didn't really mean anything, did they? Whitmore could come and leave. So could Ben. But the black smoke couldn't. The question is why, and that was never answered. So if you aren't going to answer that question. Nor are you going to answer whether or not the MIB is actually evil, why even explain them in the first place?

Whidmore was banished from the Island and when he came back he told ben it was at the request of Jacob. Ben left the island when he turned the Donkey Wheel which sends you flying through time and space. This happened to John Locke as well. Black Smoke couldn't leave because of the rules Jacob had set in place.

Also MiB may have not been truly evil (which was the point of Across the Sea to make him somewhat sympathetic), as you don't need to be completely evil to be the bad guy, but his desire to get off the island was going to get everyone killed and thats why he needed to be stopped.

Do you pay attention when you watch the show y/n?

 

[No Limit]

Whidmore was banished from the Island and when he came back he told ben it was at the request of Jacob. Ben left the island when he turned the Donkey Wheel which sends you flying through time and space. This happened to John Locke as well. Black Smoke couldn't leave because of the rules Jacob had set in place.

Also MiB may have not been truly evil (which was the point of Across the Sea to make him somewhat sympathetic), as you don't need to be completely evil to be the bad guy, but his desire to get off the island was going to get everyone killed and thats why he needed to be stopped.

Charles whidmore found the island long before Jacob told him to go there. He might not have gone but his people did. Did Jacob approve of them arriving?

And again, we dont know why the black smoke couldn't leave aside from that's what Jacob wants. So again I ask, if you aren't going to explain that, you aren't going to explain the light, why even explain Jacob and the MIB?

Do you pay attention when you watch the show y/n?

Do you have to end each post by being a total douche?

 

[stemot]

I haven't seen Lost since the end of season 2, but reading these posts I have to say I'm glad as it all sounds like complete nonsense.

 

[Yorick]

I understand that. But Jacob's rules didn't really mean anything, did they? Whitmore could come and leave. So could Ben. But the black smoke couldn't. The question is why, and that was never answered.

Whoever was leading the Others, as well as people they deemed worthy, were allowed to leave the Island for recruiting purposes. The reason that leaving or coming back to the Island was so difficult (Impossible without Jacob's permission) is because the Island was invisible as some sort of protection. That was all explained early on. It took Widmore more than 20 years of searching to be able to find it.

The Man in Black wasn't allowed to leave because his mother was crazy. Whatever circumstances brought her there, she believed that men were inherently evil, and would lie, cheat, and steal to get what they wanted. Obviously though somewhat unstable, she still wanted to protect her sons from that kind of influence.

After the MIB became the Smoke Monster, we don't know what would have happened if he had left. Maybe the light would have gone with him. Maybe it would have gone out. We don't know. It certainly made the MIB more sympathetic, all he wanted was what the Oceanic survivors wanted, to get out of there. He didn't feel like he belonged there.

And again, we dont know why the black smoke couldn't leave aside from that's what Jacob wants. So again I ask, if you aren't going to explain that, you aren't going to explain the light, why even explain Jacob and the MIB?

I don't know why you think that explaining the people on the Island means they owe you an explanation for the Island itself.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

Charles whidmore found the island long before Jacob told him to go there. He might not have gone but his people did. Did Jacob approve of them arriving?

And again, we dont know why the black smoke couldn't leave aside from that's what Jacob wants. So again I ask, if you aren't going to explain that, you aren't going to explain the light, why even explain Jacob and the MIB?

It's been shown that you don't need to be brought there by Jacob to find the island, but his people finding the island still isn't breaking the rules. Widmore was the one who was banished. He did not personally return to the Island until Jacob asked him.

Jacob believes (thats a pretty important word on this show) that smokey leaving the island would mean the destruction of the world. I think Jacob knew that the only way smokey was gonna leave the island was to destroy it, which we've been told is pretty bad but you hate that explanation so I dont know why Im telling you this.

Do you have to end each post by being a total douche?

When you start reading posts instead of just posting "this is useless I hate it, it doesnt make sense irnasubsabisdeawr" then maybe yes.

 

[Rizzo]

But we are still left with the big question, why whould the world end if the MiB left the island? Why did he need to destroy it to do so?

Or rather, why did Jacob belive that the world whould end? Becouse someone told him just seems lazy to me.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

I think it just boils down to the whole island cork = button in the hatch.

Jack was convinced that the whole thing was bullshit and that just because someone told you that you had to do it to save the world, doesn't mean it was true.

And they stopped pushing the button and look how that turned out.

So fast foward to the finale and desmond once again back in another hole with another button (sorta), and the island starts to collapse. I think we can assume from there that bad shit was about to happen.

 

[Blackthorn]

I'm not gonna go deep into things, I'm sure Yorick and Adrik have that covered.

All I want to say is: I kinda feel sorry for Michael. Everyone else got their happy reunion in purgatory/afterlife, and he was stuck on the island for all eternity.

Also liked seeing the hieroglyphs on the cork. I'd love to look into some Egyptian mythology to see what links up with the show. The skeletons down there said more about the history of the island than anything else, I feel.

 

[Rizzo]

But the Island collapsing had nothing to do with the smoke monster, that was Desmond.

 

[Blackthorn]

"He's going to help me do the one thing I could never do myself. I'm going to destroy the island." - Smoke monster.

 

[No Limit]

I think it just boils down to the whole island cork = button in the hatch.

Jack was convinced that the whole thing was bullshit and that just because someone told you that you had to do it to save the world, doesn't mean it was true.

And they stopped pushing the button and look how that turned out.

So fast foward to the finale and desmond once again back in another hole with another button (sorta), and the island starts to collapse. I think we can assume from there that bad shit was about to happen.

That doesn't address why "because someone told him to" is a good explaination. Jacob had centuries to figure things out. And turns out in those centuries he didn't gain any knowledge.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

What would be a good explanation for you then, seriously what is it you people want. Im not asking for what you think the answer is, but are you looking for some kind of ridiculous info dump and just flat out "THIS IS WHAT THE ISLAND IS. ARE YOU HAPPY?"