Violent scum

[Vegeta897]

If it does, the argumentators will have nowhere to go and we'll be flooded with boring politics shit and hate-bringing arguments.

Unless they ban political arguments all-together.

 

[Qonfused]

That's idealistic.

I daresay, though, that most criminals don't care what is right, fair, and just.

I'd have to agree.

 

[Ennui]

Which were to be closed down, right? When is that going into affect?

I don't think it is. We decided to, but then never did.

And I'm not locking this thread until this debateargumentthing runs its course, or gets too fiery - but I think we're past that part, so no point now.

Might move to politics in a bit, since this should have been there anyway probably.

That's idealistic.

I daresay, though, that most criminals don't care what is right, fair, and just.

I'm not stupid, I'm well aware it's idealistic, but I'm sick to shit of people resigning themselves to things because they feel like humanity can't change. That's not an excuse.

Criminals don't, but that's not entirely their fault. Their environment shapes them, and then they fill out that shape with whoever they are. If we make the environment better, they'll have a much better chance of being a moral person, as much as I hate saying that morals are objective.

 

[JNightshade]

That, or they do care, but lie to themselves...

still, it's sick shit :|

 

[Ennui]

That, or they do care, but lie to themselves...

still, it's sick shit :|

Either way, barring mental illness, people can change.

Sorry for believing that, but I do.

its about about paying.not learning,a jail or prison isnt a educational institute .

Returning to this for a moment, I'd like to remind you that jails are technically "Correctional Facilities". Or alternatively, "Penitentiaries", which literally means that it is meant to effect penitence. So perhaps you ought to write to your senator about changing the names and purposes of prison facilities, because at the moment you seem to be conflicting with those very laws you uphold so vehemently.

 

[Raeven0]

Either way, barring mental illness, people can change.

They can change, sure, but it'd be better if they did now and then

What arguments could we use to convince asshole criminals that it is not good to harm other people?

 

[Ennui]

They can change, sure, but it'd be better if they did now and then

Our prison systems aren't exactly well suited to the task. In fact, they fail horribly at being correctional and also at inspiring penitence.

 

[Raeven0]

In fact, they fail horribly at being correctional and also at inspiring penitence.

Granted, and I'd go so far as to say that's because we model prison as a punishment instead of a rehab.

 

[Ennui]

Granted, and I'd go so far as to say that's because we model prison as a punishment instead of a rehab.

Man, arguing with you is refreshing. You're not an idiot.

I'm sticking this in politics now; but I'm running out of things to argue about, unless Lemonking decides to set me off again.

 

[Reaktor4]

This is why a mass chav cull is a good idea.

 

[theotherguy]

it costs far more to put a person to death than it does to put them in prison for life. Why? the appeals system. Here in texas death row inmates get automatic three appeals, all of which add up to at least 20 years on death row. That means 20 years of living expenses plus the enourmous cost of each appeal, which, because of our beuracratic court system, can waste millions of dollars per day.

The death penalty does not deter crime. Most police workers and other people in the justice system rate the death penalty as the lowest crime deterrent. In fact, just 1% of all law enforcement workers in texas feel the death penalty is a detterent to violent crime, while 98% say that a reduction in drug use would be the best detterent to violent crime. Actually, in all states that have the death penalty, the per capita murder rate is significantly higher than in states without the death penalty.

Clearly, the death penalty does not do what it is designed to do. It is very expensive, and does not deter crime. What the death penalty does do is give the victims a sense of "justice" in killing the murderer, even so, this can never heal our emotional wounds. As ghandi once said, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

 

[Ennui]

it costs far more to put a person to death than it does to put them in prison for life. Why? the appeals system. Here in texas death row inmates get automatic three appeals, all of which add up to at least 20 years on death row. That means 20 years of living expenses plus the enourmous cost of each appeal, which, because of our beuracratic court system, can waste millions of dollars per day.

The death penalty does not deter crime. Most police workers and other people in the justice system rate the death penalty as the lowest crime deterrent. In fact, just 1% of all law enforcement workers in texas feel the death penalty is a detterent to violent crime, while 98% say that a reduction in drug use would be the best detterent to violent crime. Actually, in all states that have the death penalty, the per capita murder rate is significantly higher than in states without the death penalty.

Clearly, the death penalty does not do what it is designed to do. It is very expensive, and does not deter crime. What the death penalty does do is give the victims a sense of "justice" in killing the murderer, even so, this can never heal our emotional wounds. As ghandi once said, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

Beautifully put. I wholly support this post.

 

[Raeven0]

it costs far more to put a person to death than it does to put them in prison for life. Why? the appeals system.

That needs to be fixed, doesn't it?

 

[15357]

On a side note, this is why Public Security Cameras are needed everywhere. If it wasn't for that, the police may never have captured them.

They should be sentenced to death, by firing squad. Who the **** cares about appeal, when you have a extremely clear evidence on film.

Or they could be put into a forced labor camp, working 12 hours in a factory assembly line for the rest of their lives.

 

[Ennui]

On a side note, this is why Public Security Cameras are needed everywhere. If it wasn't for that, the police may never have captured them.

They should be sentenced to death, by firing squad. Who the **** cares about appeal, when you have a extremely clear evidence on film.

Or they could be put into a forced labor camp, working 12 hours in a factory assembly line for the rest of their lives.

I honestly can't tell if you're playing a big joke or not.

 

[15357]

I honestly can't tell if you're playing a big joke or not.

Uh.... to clarify:

Working in a factory for the rest of their lives seems enough justice to me, as they'll be paying back society for the hurt they've caused. People say that rehab is more important, but I think its a wrong tendency of the liberal community to assume that every single person in a society of over 100million people can be made into a productive, well-doing citizen.

 

[Ennui]

I mean you as a whole. I can't tell if you're actually what you say and believe, or if you're just playing some huge joke parody. It's unnerving.

 

[15357]

Oh, sorry....


I do mean what I say, I believe what I say.

 

[Lemonking]

I hope you get deported from this country, do you listen to what you type at all?

I have been a US Citizen all my life you dipshit.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

I have been a US Citizen all my life you dipshit.

And this changes what exactly?

 

[bliink]

you dipshit.

Profanity is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate.

 

[15357]

And this changes what exactly?

He'll never get lawfully deported?

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

He'll never get lawfully deported?

Theres allways hope though.

 

[DEATH eVADER]

The rage is building up inside me after seeing that vid

 

[JellyWorld]

I think prisoners should be harvested for blood and (in more serious cases like murder) organs. If you execute them or just leave them in prison they just suck up resources, you might as well put them to good use. Plenty of people die every year because they can't get transplants.

 

[DEATH eVADER]

I think prisoners should be harvested for blood and (in more serious cases like murder) organs. If you execute them or just leave them in prison they just suck up resources, you might as well put them to good use. Plenty of people die every year because they can't get transplants.

Amen to that :thumbs:

 

[Pax]

I have been a US Citizen all my life you dipshit.

WOOOO

Dipshit.

I'm sure that word is illegal somewhere in the world.

WE WILL SEE YOU IN COURT!

- Pax

 

[15357]

I think prisoners should be harvested for blood and (in more serious cases like murder) organs. If you execute them or just leave them in prison they just suck up resources, you might as well put them to good use. Plenty of people die every year because they can't get transplants.

Agreed fully. That is the best goddamn idea ever.

 

[theotherguy]

I think prisoners should be harvested for blood and (in more serious cases like murder) organs. If you execute them or just leave them in prison they just suck up resources, you might as well put them to good use. Plenty of people die every year because they can't get transplants.

Actually most people who are killed by lethal injection are organ donors, because the state highly encourages it. In china, executed people are often donated to medical institutions, and now to museam exibits, where their bodies are preserved and put into grotesque positions for the public to enjoy. I would support mandatory organ donation for all people who are executed, but you have to realize that the number of people executed is few and far between, and their organs would only be a small part of the overall pool.

As for the appeals system, I agree that reforms need to be made to make those appeals quicker and less expensive, but as to not loose their value. It would really suck to put an innocent person to death, and there are indeed innocents who are put to death, even after a lengthy appeal. Through DNA evidence, we have found that there have been six people killed by the state of texas since 1972 who have not commited the crime they were charged of. That is why inmates get three appeals.

What really needs to be done is to schedule these appeals in tandem, all perhaps within the same year, and give them special priority over regular cases, so that all of the evidence is already prepared and the lawyers do not have to be payed for 20 years of service on the same case. Also, there should be some sort of special sentence, like "death without appeal" that could be reserved for the most terrible crimes, where insurmountable evidence proves the person guilty.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Thank you TheOtherGuy, for the facts. Your previous post about the death penalty is exactly what I was going to post, and would have had I been here earlier.
Law student, by any chance? EDIT: Ah, right. :E

The death penalty fails on every level except 'incapacitation', which prison achieves just fine, and 'retribution', which I think a certian Son of Man would object to.
- It doesn't deter people, because if criminals plan their crimes they don't expect to get caught, and a large portion of the time their crimes are not planned but rather spontaneous.
- It doesn't even attempt to rehabilitate people (although statistics show that rehabilitation is rarely possible).
- It is objectionable on a humanitarian basis.
- We can never guarantee that innocent people will not be convicted and punished, especially in times of great paranoia and turmoil (I cite the Birmingham Six again).
- It isn't even cheaper the way they do it in the states.

 

[theotherguy]

actually I learned all of that in sociology, we just had an entire week on the death penalty

 

[88mmFlaK]

Prisons ought to be run like boot camps, as they are in Japan. Filthy western prisons are little more than criminal colleges and havens for gangs. A strict disciplinarian code should be enforced, with inmate infractions resulting in beatings and solitary confinement. The current free-for-all and breakdown of order in modern times is resultant from milquetoast modernity's habit of sparing the rod and spoiling the child.

Furthermore, *proven* homocidal undermen ought to executed as quickly as possible, and the spectacle ought to be televised.

 

[Laivasse]

Prisons ought to be run like boot camps.

Or perhaps...concentration camps! :O

Furthermore, *proven* homocidal undermen ought to executed as quickly as possible, and the spectacle ought to be televised.

Feeding the human propensity to revel in blood and murder is hardly going to create a society that values life very highly.

+ 2x(Everything Sulkdodds + theotherguy posted)=my post.

 

[88mmFlaK]

Or perhaps...concentration camps! :O

False; very poor comparison and an appeal to emotion. One must by thier own actions commit a crime to land in jail(which, by my reforms, would be run in a way which would further both the purposes of reform and safety of inmates) . Concentration camps usually interred people based on factors beyond their control, nor were they generally aimed at reform nor inmate safety.

Feeding the human propensity to revel in blood and murder is hardly going to create a society that values life very highly.

Executing murderers is not murder; it is justice.

mur·der Audio pronunciation of "murder" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mûrdr)
n.

1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

Western society, as it currently stands, puts little value in human life because it creates lax conditions which allow predators to prey upon average citizens, and continues the tradition of gang-laden prisons whereby rape and gang knifings are the order of the day.

 

[Raziaar]

I don't want the death penalty in this case. I want these guys to rot in prison for the rest of their life... starting young... to get raped in prison and all that. Thrill kills are very disturbing. I made a thread about thrill kills a long while ago.

 

[Laivasse]

Or perhaps...concentration camps! :O

False; very poor comparison and an appeal to emotion.

It was just something that sprung to mind.