Why would people play the HL2 beta???

[Kiva128]

It's software for christs sake, a load of 0's and 1's - by downloading it you are merely copying it, not stealing it...

Last time I checked, taking something that doesn't belong to you without the owner's permission is called stealing. Doesn't matter if it's 'just software' or not. Stealing is stealing.

 

[lePobz]

ok, so you have £10... and I wave my harry potter wand at it and it multiplies into £20, and I take £10 ... what do you lose?

Technically it's only stealing if the owner makes a loss, which in this case will not happen.

That's the law in the UK anyway, don't know about other places.

 

[hiln]

It's software for christs sake, a load of 0's and 1's - by downloading it you are merely copying it, not stealing it... now if nobody actually bought the game then I would agree that Valve would be making an unfair loss because people would not be buying the game because they already had it - but what got leaked was barely even a complete engine, let alone a game.

Now can anyone honestly say that they are not going to buy a copy of Half-Life 2 because they have the leak instead?

Valve would be making the profit out of me whether I downloaded it or not - the only people I troubled was those few BitTorrent hosts that I downloaded it from. Do they care?

I bet 90% of the people on here proclaiming that they haven't touched it were among the first to get it, lets be honest for gods sake.

Just because some people on a HL2 FANSITE(S) download the game and want to still buy it doesn't mean every average non-fanatic would want to buy it as well after stealing it. And yes, copying software is stealing, and it hurts sales more than anything. It's why pirating is hurting software so much today in this age.

 

[lePobz]

Pirating yes because people are getting similar-quality (if not better) copies of software/music/games that are being released...

...it just doesn't apply with half-life 2 - what was leaked was half an engine and some heavily scripted tech demos.

I'm guessing people that buy Half-Life 2 are buying it because they want to play Half-Life 2 - do you think the half-life 2 leak would allow them to do this?

 

[hiln]

Pirating yes because people are getting similar-quality (if not better) copies of software/music/games that are being released...

...it just doesn't apply with half-life 2 - what was leaked was half an engine and some heavily scripted tech demos.

I'm guessing people that buy Half-Life 2 are buying it because they want to play Half-Life 2 - do you think the half-life 2 leak would allow them to do this?

You would be suprised with what people have made with the beta already. And yes, plenty of people would be content with that enough not to shell out some 50 bucks when it's released.

 

[EVIL]

Hmm.. why would people play the hl2 beta... To cut the waiting and to see what valve is up to, they think its the full game, they want to know more about how they make games, tryout some of the mod tools, there are loads of reasons.

 

[lePobz]

Well thats their (and unfortunately valves) loss... but you can't hold a grudge against people that downloaded the leak with full intention of buying it on release anyway.

The only people affected by this are the people downloading it, as they lessen the excitement of playing the full game for the first time. Thats the price we pay.

 

[Shuzer]

And I answered. Twice. One of them in easy to understand tubby language just for you, because you're obviously special :E . The fact that you don't understand doesn't mean it hasn't been explained to you in plain English, it just means that you're not capable of understanding the answer, or not willing to. And there it remains your problem.

You never explained how people downloading the stolen build affects/screws VALVe over in any way. Your example only showed it's morally wrong.

 

[EVIL]

You would be suprised with what people have made with the beta already. And yes, plenty of people would be content with that enough not to shell out some 50 bucks when it's released.

And thats their loss if they let themself mis out on a great game because the pre pre pre alpha sucks. (why the hell do people still call it beta? its nowhere near a beta.)

 

[Rupertvdb]

ok, so you have £10... and I wave my harry potter wand at it and it multiplies into £20, and I take £10 ... what do you lose?

Technically it's only stealing if the owner makes a loss, which in this case will not happen.

That's the law in the UK anyway, don't know about other places.

You.Are.Ignorant

Harry Potter wand...what the ****? Are you talking about the photo copy machine down your local job center? 5p a pop Jimmy and you can make copies of your ass!

Technically stealing = the act of taking something from someone unlawfully

Don't see any mention of owner's loss in there..in fact how do you judge what is lost...Valve's privacy? Their game? The hard work they did?

That's the law in the UK...not in my UK maybe in your UK.

I don't care for the stealing aspect it doesn't bother me because it's up to you if you want to involve yourself. Passing it off as otherwise through shit for brains justification like that annoys me.

 

[hiln]

Well thats their (and unfortunately valves) loss... but you can't hold a grudge against people that downloaded the leak with full intention of buying it on release anyway.

The only people affected by this are the people downloading it, as they lessen the excitement of playing the full game for the first time. Thats the price we pay.

Actually, you can. P2P programs work by sharing the content as you download, for example programs such as edonkey, torrents, and emule use this. If you don't upload, the downloads will be non-existant. So most of the people who downloaded it but still planned to buy it are/were still contributing to the problem. Problem as in non-fanatic sales. So you can't really say the leak didn't hurt valve's development cycle, because they did have to work extra because of this ****. And you can't really say you aren't hurting valve (sales) by downloading the beta. However subtle or great it is, no one will ever really know.

And again, I don't have a vendetta against the people who downloaded it, but take some responsibility.

 

[hiln]

And thats their loss if they let themself mis out on a great game because the pre pre pre alpha sucks. (why the hell do people still call it beta? its nowhere near a beta.)

They probably call it that because it's known as that. It doesn't matter really...

 

[Shuzer]

I'd still love an example of how joe schmoe downloading the playable build of HL2 (NOT the source code) affects VALVe in any way. I understand it being jacked in the first place hurt them, but, how would someone say, today, downloading it hurt VALVe?

Just assume it won't affect their purchase decision, that they'll buy it on the day of release.

 

[hiln]

I'd still love an example of how joe schmoe downloading the playable build of HL2 (NOT the source code) affects VALVe in any way. I understand it being jacked in the first place hurt them, but, how would someone say, today, downloading it hurt VALVe?

Just assume it won't affect their purchase decision, that they'll buy it on the day of release.

You honestly think everyone who downloaded it is going to buy it?

 

[Rupertvdb]

it wouldn't in any real way from the munetary point of view. On the pride front it probably would still bother a few people, Valve want to provide a great game beyond simply profit margins, having people disecting the thing before it's ready may just bother them.

 

[KagePrototype]

I'd still love an example of how joe schmoe downloading the playable build of HL2 (NOT the source code) affects VALVe in any way. I understand it being jacked in the first place hurt them, but, how would someone say, today, downloading it hurt VALVe?

Didn't we conclude it didn't?

 

[Burn]

Shuzer you will never get an answer to that, as to answer that would remove there point. Or what little point they have.

 

[Shuzer]

You honestly think everyone who downloaded it is going to buy it?

I didn't say that. Most people who did, yes.

Let's say I'd never downloaded it. I had an ATi HL2 coupon, so the game is mine the day it's released on Steam. I go and DL the build, and play it. How does it affect VALVe, or hurt them in any way?

People who won't buy HL2 after playing the build probably weren't going to buy it in the first place, and in such, it was better they downloaded the stolen build, as it decreases their chances of pirating the actual game once it comes out. This may or may not be true, but I can't see how people who didn't want to buy HL2 in the first place downloading it affects VALVe either.

Didn't we conclude it didn't?

We did. But, there are still some insisiting that it hurts VALVe.. I'm just trying to see their reasons

 

[Rupertvdb]

3 very different responses...i'd go with mine it's better.

 

[hiln]

Didn't we conclude it didn't?

I didn't know you guys could read the future. Go back in time, prevent the beta leak, go to the future, count the sales, go back in time, prevent you from preventing the leak, then go to the future of that dimension and get the sales, then come back to this time and post here.

You guys are amazing.

:rolling:

How can you conclude this? By some fans saying they will buy the game anyhow? haha... oh man...

 

[Shuzer]

We're not arguing whether or not the THEFT had an affect on VALVe or the overall sales.

We're talking about those who download what was stolen. How do THEY affect VALVe, not the actual theft?

 

[hiln]

I didn't say that. Most people who did, yes.

Let's say I'd never downloaded it. I had an ATi HL2 coupon, so the game is mine the day it's released on Steam. I go and DL the build, and play it. How does it affect VALVe, or hurt them in any way?

People who won't buy HL2 after playing the build probably weren't going to buy it in the first place, and in such, it was better they downloaded the stolen build, as it decreases their chances of pirating the actual game once it comes out. This may or may not be true, but I can't see how people who didn't want to buy HL2 in the first place downloading it affects VALVe either.





We did. But, there are still some insisiting that it hurts VALVe.. I'm just trying to see their reasons

I've already stated my reasons. All I see is you reading between the lines of the possible future. You don't know everyones situation, you probably don't even know a small fraction. You don't know, I don't know.

It's not a simple, well, if they download it and don't buy it, they would have never bought the game. You see this in your mind as a fan, but you really don't know.

 

[Shuzer]

The overall difficulty/time involved in downloading, extracting, setting up and playing the stolen build is not likely to be wasted by anyone but a HL fan in the first place. I can't see there being alot of people who had never heard of HL/2 or not been a fan in the first place taking the time out of their lives to play it just because it was stolen

 

[hiln]

We're not arguing whether or not the THEFT had an affect on VALVe or the overall sales.

We're talking about those who download what was stolen. How do THEY affect VALVe, not the actual theft?

::sigh::

I already stated it.

The theft >>> piracy >>> sales

They go right into eachother, the theft made the piracy, then the piracy can very well effect the sales, which effect valve. I already stated, most people who downloaded it used a program like bit torrent or emule and shared it to other people while or even after they downloaded it. It's pretty simple.

Everything affects everything in this world.

 

[hiln]

The overall difficulty/time involved in downloading, extracting, setting up and playing the stolen build is not likely to be wasted by anyone but a HL fan in the first place. I can't see there being alot of people who had never heard of HL/2 or not been a fan in the first place taking the time out of their lives to play it just because it was stolen

Yes, you assume, but I assume otherwise. You can't see, but I see it.

And believe it or not, there will be some fans who download it and not buy it. It's not as much as a OMG IMPOSSIBLEE as you may think.

 

[Shuzer]

Fair enough. I can see what you're saying, but the other side of the fence is just as plausible, IMO.

 

[Rupertvdb]

Poeple who download the stolen build are likely to dopwnload pirate copies of HL2 and not give money to Valve...that's pretty much fact, the theft encouraged this. Making public piracy makes people thik they should do it too, if sooo many people can get away with it.

 

[hiln]

Fair enough. I can see what you're saying, but the other side of the fence is just as plausible, IMO.

indeed


tencharlimit

 

[Shuzer]

Poeple who download the stolen build are likely to dopwnload pirate copies of HL2 and not give money to Valve...that's pretty much fact, the theft encouraged this. Making public piracy makes people thik they should do it too, if sooo many people can get away with it.

I think it's much of the opposite. As I stated, I'd imagine most of those who DLed the stolen build are rabid fans who would do whatever it takes to get their hands on HL2. I haven't talked to anyone who's played the build who isn't planning on buying HL2. I'm sure there are people out there, but how likely were they to not warez the game before playing the stolen build? Why would that change their opinion on whether or not to buy HL2? I don't see the connection.

 

[Foxtrot]

Poeple who download the stolen build are likely to dopwnload pirate copies of HL2 and not give money to Valve...that's pretty much fact, the theft encouraged this. Making public piracy makes people thik they should do it too, if sooo many people can get away with it.

I know 3 people who downloaded or played the leaked build, and they all have $50 down on a pre order.

 

[PatPwnt]

Both were leak's. Both are illegal distrobutions. Both were either alpha or pre-alpha.

If you downloaded it. ... ... You DO NOT DESERVE TO PLAY THE FINAL GAME

Shut up.... idiot

 

[Rupertvdb]

I think it's much of the opposite. As I stated, I'd imagine most of those who DLed the stolen build are rabid fans who would do whatever it takes to get their hands on HL2. I haven't talked to anyone who's played the build who isn't planning on buying HL2. I'm sure there are people out there, but how likely were they to not warez the game before playing the stolen build? Why would that change their opinion on whether or not to buy HL2? I don't see the connection.

Anything that makes public hacking and positive results from it is bound to encourage it to some degree, people justifying it compunds the problem but that's another matter.

On top of this people may well claim they shall go on to buy the game but i am sure a significant proportion may well regade on that, even if a minor amount to, it's enough to harm a company.

I must go eat, i'll reply to rebuttals in a bit.

 

[PatPwnt]

Poeple who download the stolen build are likely to dopwnload pirate copies of HL2 and not give money to Valve...that's pretty much fact, the theft encouraged this. Making public piracy makes people thik they should do it too, if sooo many people can get away with it.

wrong......

 

[PatPwnt]

Why would people play the beta.

1. Half-Life 2 most anticipated game ever. Any chance to get a shot to play and a lot of people will take it.
2. People want to make sure they're not wasting their time waiting around for it.
3. As Bicka said, modders dream. It's like the holy grail minus the ferocius bunny.
4. $0m3 p30p£3 w4n7 70 µ£7r4 £337 4nÐ h4x 73h V4£v20r

If the leak has ruined my experience for the final game, so be it. But i don't think it has. It's only re-affirmed my opinion that the game will be a shisen load of fun.

Super bump*...

 

[Shuzer]

Anything that makes public hacking and positive results from it is bound to encourage it to some degree, people justifying it compunds the problem but that's another matter.

On top of this people may well claim they shall go on to buy the game but i am sure a significant proportion may well regade on that, even if a minor amount to, it's enough to harm a company.

I must go eat, i'll reply to rebuttals in a bit.

Half the fun of HL/2 is the online play. Without a valid copy, you don't get that.

I still don't see a connection between the stolen build and people's decision to pirate the game..

"Oh look! HL2 was stolen! Warez is cool. I was going to buy it, but not anymore!"

 

[CptStern]

I was determined to stay away from it. I purchased an ati card just for the coupon (yes I'm stupid) but then the missed ship date passed, then it kept getting pushed back ...I just couldnt take it anymore and had to dl it. I'm glad I did, because just before I dl'ed it I was ready to give up on HL2. Playing the alpha has made me want it more than any sshots, tech demos, ingame videos. Oh and it didnt ruin anything for me...I still dont know what's going on story wise

 

[Rupertvdb]

man, piracy and theft of builds all comes under the same blanket gorup. People wanting to obtain things that should not be available to them. In the case of the theft it was getting the game early in the case of piracy it is being cheap.

Creating options for piracy and theft as well as giving it such a public domain shall always encourage people to follow that path, it's the same principal through which people download music and videos, if everyone does it my little addition won't matter...

I think it is ridiculous to assume acts of theft are going to encourage anything but further acts, i can't see all the crims repenting at the pure godliness of HL2's release.

Note: I don't necessarily suscribe to this opinion in its entirety but i am doing a bit of a devil's advocate thing here.

 

[Paintballer]

Meh,
All I know is that because a lot of people have the leak, we are learning a ton of stuff about the modding aspects of HL2. By practicing now, there will be tons of good content ready for soon after HL2's release.

 

[Dsty2001]

Poeple who download the stolen build are likely to dopwnload pirate copies of HL2 and not give money to Valve...that's pretty much fact, the theft encouraged this. Making public piracy makes people thik they should do it too, if sooo many people can get away with it.

I downloaded it but I'm going to buy the game. In fact, the leaked build makes me want the game so much more.

 

[wbcheater]

it gave me more faith in valve. id tell you the funny thing about it. do you think the mods would allow me to post a fps rate and the video card i was running.... just for ppl to get a hint