Basra Attack.

[Lil' Timmy]

heh, it's funny that i make a post about semantics and word usage and half the words are misspelled :/

anyway, the differences between the news organization lays in how they report the news. there is an objective event that happened, but i've found the bbc to be the most objective in how they report what happened. fox news and msnbc are obviously beholden to conservative interests, while the major networks often seem to have a leftish slant. cnn however is different in my eyes, i don't see much of a slant one way or another in their reporting. i just think they're kinda a shitty service, offering too much non-news and too much sensationalism on crap like kobe (more so than the other organisations i mentioned). i'm talking about the tv reporting, not the websites.

edit: kadayi, i actually have taken the time to sit down and compare all of the news orgs i mentioned (i get bbcworld on cable, i'm not sure how this differes from bbc in UK), so don't attack me! i'm scared of you

 

[Kadayi]

kadayi, i actually have taken the time to sit down and compare all of the news orgs i mentioned (i get bbcworld on cable, i'm not sure how this differes from bbc in UK), so don't attack me! i'm scared of you

Dude, I've never have issues with you as far as I can recall (plus you've sampled the delights of Hoegaaden so you can't be bad :cheers: ). I just have issues with Zealots of every kind or creed who lack the ability to think beyond themselves and their environs, in either thought or deed.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

You know them all? You watch them all? Or are you merely wacking off again?

Please give it rest with your Redneck BS once and for all GV. A steady diet of cowboy films and uncooked red meat seems to have reduced your ability to rationalise down to dualities. All you ever spout is the same black and white dogma, again and again. It really gets tedious to see how limited your range is in these threads.

Just because the vast majority of people on these boards disagreed with the decision to invade Iraq, doesn't necessarily mean that they are pleased about the deaths of anyone there, whether those casualties are Aidworkers, Journalist, civilians or Soldiers. I find it astounding that you can't concieve of this notion, and shocking that you have the audacity to make such accusations.

I didn't say these people who replied are pleased, I didn't most of the people here were pleased, I was talking about people on the boards who ahve siad they sympathize with the insurgents. And by sympathize I mean are agaisnt the US totally and support the terrorists. I've known people personally who support the IRA, ETA, and idolize Al-Queda. I never said el Chi, Lil' Timmy, Dedalus or any of the others were like that. It was a general message to anyone who is in support of those who commit these acts. All you're doing is attacking me because I disagree with you. You can have your opinion, Timmy can have his, and so can el Chi. I never said Timmy was a bad guy, I never said I didn't like him, so stop acting like it please. We're trying to have a civil conversation about this, and you're only hampering the efforts. I also never said all Iraqis are bad, so I have no idea where this ''Redneck BS'' came from. I supported the war for my own reasons, those being that I wanted to see a free Iraq. I also never said those who disagreed with my view wer bad. Other Americans disagreeing is what makes this country great - Diversity. The fact that you can disagree openly without fear of retribution. Timmy and Innervision are both Americans who are on the other side of the fence on this war, but we're not enemies by any means. I even consider Timmy and Innervision my friends. We have similar gaming interests, we all dislike the murder of innocents, and enjoy debating, arguing, and talking.

BTW - I don't eat redmeat, and I don't like Cowboy films.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

I just have issues with Zealots of every kind or creed who lack the ability to think beyond themselves and their environs, in either thought or deed.

I'm not a Zealot. I just can't stand people killing eachother to make a point, being those are the motives of such. Why can't they just go march in the streets, or some other non-violent protests? Maybe even hold up their end of the Cease-fire bargain? But no, lots of insurgents are taking and killing hostages, killing aid workers there to help them, and launching terrorists attacks killing school children - SCHOOL CHILDREN!!!

 

[Lil' Timmy]

I don't eat redmeat, and I don't like Cowboy films.

.. i thought you were an american.. what's that smell? it smells like a DIRTY HIPPY!!!!!!

seriously, go out and get a ribeye steak and rent 'the good, the bad, and the ugly' right now!

 

[GhostValkyrie]

Nah...I don't think my Govt. has been very forward about the Madcow thing.
Years ago I had watched news reports on Primetime and 20/20 talking about Madcow cases in the North East area, the Govt. denied and just recently we had that Madcow scare. I would love to eat meat, it contains good amounts of Creatine, but I don't want to risk sinking my teeth into infected meat.

The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly is good, but I prefer Sci-Fi, Action, and Horror. Tombstone, now that's a different story. Doc Holiday is teh win!

 

[Lil' Timmy]

Nah...I don't think my Govt. has been very forward about the Madcow thing.
Years ago I had watched news reports on Primetime and 20/20 talking about Madcow cases in the North East area, the Govt. denied and just recently we had that Madcow scare. I would love to eat meat, it contains good amounts of Creatine, but I don't want to risk sinking my teeth into infected meat.

solidly off-topic, but GV you should only eat free-range meats anyway, there must be lots of free-range meats available in TX, right? madcow is just the icing on the chemical-soup cake that is the output of the american mass production food industry.

 

[Direwolf]

*Looks up from hamburger
Whatever
*Goes back to it

 

[Kadayi]

All you're doing is attacking me because I disagree with you.

No, I'm attacking you because your idiot in my view, and one that takes great delight in his ignorance. In all the time I've been on these boards I've never yet seen you 'debate' anything in the fullest sense. You make a lot of statements and plenty of asides against people, places and cultures, but I've never actually seen you discuss a subject. All you ever do is make a proclaimation (like this post), then use the thread as a sounding board to promote your prejudices.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

Well, I do eat other free-range meats when the opportunity arrises, but I tend to consider Cow to be "the" red-meat. I must say Deer is quite delicious.
Most of the time I eat fish and Chicken though.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

No, I'm attacking you because your idiot in my view, and one that takes great delight in his ignorance. In all the time I've been on these boards I've never yet seen you 'debate' anything in the fullest sense. You make a lot of statements and plenty of asides against people, places and cultures, but I've never actually seen you discuss a subject. All you ever do is make a proclaimation (like this post), then use the thread as a sounding board to promote your prejudices.

If you really feel that way, fine. Although you're yet to provide the people I am prejudice against.

 

[Lil' Timmy]

Well, I do eat other free-range meats when the opportunity arrises, but I tend to consider Cow to be "the" red-meat. I must say Deer is quite delicious.
Most of the time I eat fish and Chicken though.

right, but madcow results from cattle being fed the brain/spinal material of other cattle. free-range cattle is not only free of this, but also all of the hormaones and antibiotics that polute normal meet. there's no risk of madcow.

anyway, venison counts as redmeat in my book, so i qon't question your americanism anymore

i'll let this tangent drop :|

 

[GhostValkyrie]

right, but madcow results from cattle being fed the brain/spinal material of other cattle. free-range cattle is not only free of this, but also all of the hormaones and antibiotics that polute normal meet. there's no risk of madcow.

anyway, venison counts as redmeat in my book, so i qon't question your americanism anymore

Ha, nice. Well, the thing is, while there is plenty of Free-range cattle, the meat is distributed from North to South, South to North. So there's not really to much to go off of. A package may say it's from a Texas slaughter house, free from such activity, but you never really know. That being if the meat package says where it's from, which I've yet to notice if it does. Believe me, I would love to eat Cow again, but I have too much riding on the line to do so. I'm sure the Navy will make me eat Cow anyway. So, in due time, I will return to the Cow side.

It could be nothing, but with the Govt. having denied the previous reports as false, only for Madcow to be revealed late last year, I'm willing to bet something will come of this.

 

[Direwolf]

I'm more regularly concerned over being hit by lightening, so this doesn't really rank up there on the threat list in my book.

 

[Javert]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4667742/?GT1=3256

I hope those of you who sympathise with the insurgents are proud of this.

Ironic considering your signature.

'Mr. McCarthy', who here is a "sympathizer with the insurgents"?
I doubt anyone would be proud of this violent and senseless act. Even worse that Iraqi children are among the dead. I hope this does not affect progress in Iraq, though unfortunately Spain and Honduras has decided to pull out, and domestic popularity is the most polarized ever.
Our hearts are out to the victims. Salute to the American Soldier.

 

[Kadayi]

If you really feel that way, fine. Although you're yet to provide the people I am prejudice against.

ok, let's take this from earlier in the thread:-

but most of your major news network correspondents are left wing.

I didn't even have to stray far there, that's your standard mindset in every thread.

You make a big thing about being an american, but I'd like to actually know what you think being an american means? and what not being an amercian means?

 

[Lil' Timmy]

back on topic!
while perhaps being somewhat vociferous, kadayi does have a point GV. i mean, i've never seen anyone on these boards come out and say that they totally support the killing of innocents, which is what you're implying. your original post is clearly zealous, baiting and confrontational in tone. again, who on these forums are you confronting?

i support anyone's right to fight for their freedom, but if their fight starts impinging on me, then we have a problem. in this particular case, it doesn't sound like the attacks were directed at the occupation, so they couldn't be classified as "freedom fighting" anyway. the simple fact is that we are occupying iraq to ostensibly secure the freedom of some while fighting other 'freedom fighters'. it's ugly, and call me un-american, but i can conceptually understand the anger of an occupied people.

the problem is finding the virtuous position. i don't think it's nearly as plain as you often seem to think GV.

 

[el Chi]

well, the bbc usually reports things as they are - no bullshit, no spin, just facts.

Dedalus, mate we agree on many things, but the BBC is not that great - especially on the internet.
Actually, I'm just pissed off and biased against them because one of tgheir i'net journalists was a terrible writer and blatantly subjective whilst reporting the Lib Dems recently. The article may as well have said: "Do not vote for the Liberal Democrats"
But yeah mostly they're alright. Mostly. <In a Newt stylee>

 

[GhostValkyrie]

ok, let's take this from earlier in the thread:-



I didn't even have to stray far there, that's your standard mindset in every thread.

You make a big thing about being an american, but I'd like to actually know what you think being an american means? and what not being an amercian means?

Americans are from America and Non-Americans aren't from America. In terms of out-right nativism. As for pride, I know some Saudis down the street who love America, I see them as if they had been born here. Not that I would treat anyone from a foreign country different if they weren't proud, but I see them as Americans and not Saudis because of their blatant pride. As for my comment, I was only saying that because he was saying MSNBC was controlled by the Govt., and it likely is. I was only making the satement that most New correspondents are left-wing, which is true. I didn't say they were bad.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

back on topic!
while perhaps being somewhat vociferous, kadayi does have a point GV. i mean, i've never seen anyone on these boards come out and say that they totally support the killing of innocents, which is what you're implying. your original post is clearly zealous, baiting and confrontational in tone. again, who on these forums are you confronting?

i support anyone's right to fight for their freedom, but if their fight starts impinging on me, then we have a problem. in this particular case, it doesn't sound like the attacks were directed at the occupation, so they couldn't be classified as "freedom fighting" anyway. the simple fact is that we are occupying iraq to ostensibly secure the freedom of some while fighting other 'freedom fighters'. it's ugly, and call me un-american, but i can conceptually understand the anger of an occupied people.

the problem is finding the virtuous position. i don't think it's nearly as plain as you often seem to think GV.

Actually, I realize it's not in bold day light, I'm merely talking about the insurgents taking hostages, killing innocents, etc. - that's it. I'm not saying there's this red marking we can formulate an attack strategy on. We don't know who our enemies are. It's quite honestly an ominous threat, one that we cannot afford to slip up on dealing with. When I talk plainly, I mean waht I said earlier, these terrorists, or these insurgents. I didn't say everyone in Iraq poses a problem, or that we can simply take the problem out. It's tough, but I like to think in optimistic terms and ride the storm out. If we leave Iraq now because of threat, not only would that be something the terrorists would see as a sign of weakness, but Iraq would fall to the mercy(and there will be none) or brutal guerilla dictators.

And about my original post, I did my best to clarify that with the rest of you.
Sorry, but apparently some of the old members aren't still here. I believe it was Kerberos that was saying he was a sympathizer with the Taliban and such? Anyway, it was a bad way to start the subject. Sorry. I was just trying to address people like that.

 

[63]

"don't believe everything you read" - dont flame me, its just a statement

 

[Dedalus]

well we can't leave iraq. it's like Macbeth (can't remember the exact quote)...goes something like - he wants to be king of scotland, and to get there he has to kill everyone, but he wants to turn back and forget it all, but he realises "i am too deep in blood to turn around and head to the beginning, i must finish this." well i hope you get the comparison. the west needs to finish what they started, it's a mess and it needs to be tidied up. i didn't want to go over there in the first place, but now that we're there, leaving would do more harm than good.

el Chi...the bbc has their oddball writers...they don't actually give them the sack though, they send them to write bbc2 sitcoms...

 

[Kadayi]

Americans are from America and Non-Americans aren't from America. In terms of out-right nativism. As for pride, I know some Saudis down the street who love America, I see them as if they had been born here. Not that I would treat anyone from a foreign country different if they weren't proud, but I see them as Americans and not Saudis because of their blatant pride. As for my comment, I was only saying that because he was saying MSNBC was controlled by the Govt., and it likely is. I was only making the satement that most New correspondents are left-wing, which is true. I didn't say they were bad.

So the defining aspect of being an american is pride? Pride in what exactly? And pride over who? I want to know what exactly makes an american, because from what you say it doesn't seem to relate to geographical birth, more an attitude of mind.

Also I'd like to know which is more principal to your existence, being a human or being an american?


Also if it's not bad, to be left wing then why make the comment in the first place?

 

[Jackal hit]

i think GV hit on something in the original post. a lot of people, i've noticed, not just here but everywhere... have an unfounded hatred for everything/one american. from this, they side with everything that goes against us, read: freedomfighters/insurgents/whatever you wanna call them. so now, these same anti-american/pro freedomfighter people have to decide what kind of mindset they have. they're against the american forces being in iraq, they support the attacks on american troops, but now these same people are attacking unarmed people, and using children as part of their plans. these terrorists are thelowest scum of the earth. that's all GV was saying, i don't see why anyone is taking exception to what he's saying. those assholes using children as shields are some of the lowest dirt on the planet. why would anyone not agree? oh i know, because they hate america. people sometimes have skewed ideas. just saying, some people's hatred of america turns into a pro terrorist view, which is sickening.

and what he meant with the leftist news sources thing... you'd expect that those news sources would be anti republican/current gov't.

sorry if my entire post is very muddled and horribly thought out... i'm busy with class right now... shhhhh

 

[63]

So the defining aspect of being an american is pride? Pride in what exactly? And pride over who? I want to know what exactly makes an american, because from what you say it doesn't seem to relate to geographical birth, more an attitude of mind.

Also I'd like to know which is more principal to your existence, being a human or being an american?


Also if it's not bad, to be left wing then why make the comment in the first place?

I think that the term "American" has come along way.... I see people using it as an insult, saying things like "stop thinking like an American" or "yes sir Mr. Bush" (eheheh)

 

[Jackal hit]

So the defining aspect of being an american is pride? Pride in what exactly? And pride over who? I want to know what exactly makes an american, because from what you say it doesn't seem to relate to geographical birth, more an attitude of mind.

Also I'd like to know which is more principal to your existence, being a human or being an american?


Also if it's not bad, to be left wing then why make the comment in the first place?

it sounds like you've missed the point of what GV stated. "american" is a citizenship. he was merely adding onto the fact that many many people who move here from other places love it and have pride in where they now live. my mom(who's turkish...i bring this up as an aside because i've travelled overseas a little more than every other year of my life... i'm 22... so i've got and insiders and outsiders perspective on this) has a very close iranian friend with whom i'm also very close. she sat me down and explained to me last summer that almost the entire population of immigrants who move here (especially mideasterners) love it and DO have lots of pride in this country. i think you're trying to look for somethin that's not there, kadayi, or you're reading into something that you WANT to be there so you can attack GV, or just americans in general maybe.

 

[Kadayi]

it sounds like you've missed the point of what GV stated. "american" is a citizenship. he was merely adding onto the fact that many many people who move here from other places love it and have pride in where they now live. my mom(who's turkish...i bring this up as an aside because i've travelled overseas a little more than every other year of my life... i'm 22... so i've got and insiders and outsiders perspective on this) has a very close iranian friend with whom i'm also very close. she sat me down and explained to me last summer that almost the entire population of immigrants who move here (especially mideasterners) love it and DO have lots of pride in this country. i think you're trying to look for somethin that's not there, kadayi, or you're reading into something that you WANT to be there so you can attack GV, or just americans in general maybe.

Dude, I might seem to be beating on GV, but I want him to personally answer those questions. Right or wrong as your take may be on what he has said, I want to hear it from him.

Also no right thinking person is going to condone what the insurgents have done/are doing regardless of who they do it against.

 

[Jackal hit]

Dude, I might seem to be beating on GV, but I want him to personally answer those questions. Right or wrong as your take may be on what he has said, I want to hear it from him.

Also no right thinking person is going to condone what the insurgents have done/are doing regardless of who they do it against.

yo man, i've actually SEEN and MET people here at my college campus who would and do condone this sort of thing. and i've seen it overseas in europe as well(in holland of all places... wtf). it's quite sickening.

 

[Argyll]

Wow... People should really learn what they're talking about before posting...

 

[Fat Tony!]

Its not americans that arnt liked its just loads of people who arent liked who just happen to be american. I dont think anyone can say that the use of children in terrorism is good. If they were doing it just to smite the americans i could sort of understand, but going around mowing you our people down is pure fanatism. I think the only way to control them is to mimic saddam. Perhaps using scare tactics are using a more aggressive approach.Obviously not go around murdering people and torturing them but like said in this thread or the other they crave this control. Unfortunaltly the election is on soon so politics stands in the way of any radical changes. Shame.
My grammer/spelling = bad

 

[Kadayi]

yo man, i've actually SEEN and MET people here at my college campus who would and do condone this sort of thing. and i've seen it overseas in europe as well (in holland of all places... wtf). it's quite sickening.

People said plenty of controversial stuff when I went to University, because they thought having a contoversial opinion would make them more interesting, and thus more likely to get laid/popular/infamous. People are flippant at a distance, and their words fall like rain in a storm, but when faced with the reality posturing and pretense quickly drop away.

Yes there are dangerous and scary people in this world, and some slip into the void and loose their sense of humanity through their actions, but they are very few and far between. It is merely their extremity that makes them dangerous.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

So the defining aspect of being an american is pride? Pride in what exactly? And pride over who? I want to know what exactly makes an american, because from what you say it doesn't seem to relate to geographical birth, more an attitude of mind.

Also I'd like to know which is more principal to your existence, being a human or being an american?


Also if it's not bad, to be left wing then why make the comment in the first place?

Because Left-wing reporters tend to put a spin on things, like right-wing reporters tend to. There's nothing necessarily bad about it, just that it's there and it's worth note. Just like how Fox News reporters are mostly right-winged except Colmes from Hannity & Colmes, and maybe some others, and cnn reporters are pretty much left-wing, I don't know of any right-wing CNN reporters.

Being a human is the primary of the two. People in this country have so much that they take for granted, while innocents are being slaughtered in African countries, Iraq, etc. While part of the reason for joining the military is to defend my country, I'd really like to take part in any mission where any third world country's people benefit from it.

Being an American AT HEART(to me) is simply about taking the freedoms we have and using them to our best abilities, being proud and grateful for them.
Like I said, many people in this country take their freedom for granted. But in general terms its a citizenship thing. Very few seem to be as proud as a lot of you would think.

 

[Jackal hit]

posturing and pretense quickly drop away.

oh i agree, a lot of it IS posturing. but it's easy to see through that. lots of it is totally fanaticism, unfortunately(be it one side or another). hell there's this girl in one of my art classes who, in her multimedia piece, made a statement that the US should have just dropped an atomic bomb on Baghdad, and it's REALLY her viewpoint. it was more than slightly disturbing that someone could think this way... but it's the same thought process that is in the terrorist's minds i think. bleh, bad situation all around.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

Hmmmm, I just wana add to this thread a little just so that you lot know my point of view on patriotism.

Whether a person is a patriot or not does not change them as a person. Being patriotic is about pride in your country and believeing that your country holds a great importance in your own life. What I don't like is when "Patriots" are predudice against others in their nation who are not "patriotic". I also dislike it when people believe being patriotic entails deciding that your nation is better than everyone elses. Remember being patriotic is about how you feel about your country and its effects on your life. (In my opinion)

You people have to remember that people are entitled to feel how they want to feel about issues such as these.




Personally I love Britain. I think its a great place to live. I love the wide range of cultures, the way we are a part of Europe, the legal system, democracy... the list goes on.

However, I would never treat a person differently if they said that my country was crap. Thats their opinion, their experiences, their decisions.




Also, I was never ever tought to be patriotic. I just am. I also feel that while those who were tought to be patriotic may well love their country, I think that sometimes they are tought wrong principles such as the above mentioned belief that your country and its principles are beyond doubt the best in the world.






This post was failly hastily put together, oh and I can't spell. But I hope you see where I am coming from. I just want people to accept other peoples opinions before they go out attacking other forum members. (Hasn't happened yet as such, but I have a feeling it will.)

 

[Jackal hit]

Like I said, many people in this country take their freedom for granted. But in general terms its a citizenship thing. Very few seem to be as proud as a lot of you would think.

very agreed. i've met lots of people(i seem to meet everyone huh? its because of being in the art community.. everyone's kinda... fringe) who really hate everything american, yet they buy things, drive cars, live here, etc...

also, a few people overseas (that i met last summer... my last trip reallly opened my eyes to a lot of things... probably because i was more willing to talk to people i didn't really know hehe) have confused having pride in living here in america as blindly following everything you're told by the gov't. i have many many issues with the gov't but i still love the country. the two don't go hand in hand.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

oh i agree, a lot of it IS posturing. but it's easy to see through that. lots of it is totally fanaticism, unfortunately(be it one side or another). hell there's this girl in one of my art classes who, in her multimedia piece, made a statement that the US should have just dropped an atomic bomb on Baghdad, and it's REALLY her viewpoint. it was more than slightly disturbing that someone could think this way... but it's the same thought process that is in the terrorist's minds i think. bleh, bad situation all around.

Ugh, that's really disturbing. The whole nation shouldn't pay the sins of Saddam and his regime.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

Yup, there trully are some very very stupid people out there. The worrying thing is that some have influence.

 

[Kadayi]

oh i agree, a lot of it IS posturing. but it's easy to see through that. lots of it is totally fanaticism, unfortunately(be it one side or another). hell there's this girl in one of my art classes who, in her multimedia piece, made a statement that the US should have just dropped an atomic bomb on Baghdad, and it's REALLY her viewpoint. it was more than slightly disturbing that someone could think this way... but it's the same thought process that is in the terrorist's minds i think. bleh, bad situation all around.

So what did the teacher say to her? What did you say to her? Did anyone change her viewpoint through discussion or by making her think about the consequences?

 

[Jackal hit]

So what did the teacher say to her? What did you say to her? Did anyone change her viewpoint through discussion or by making her think about the consequences?

i told her that not everyone is a terrorist, most people anywhere in the world are the same as anyone else in the world. they like peace, happiness, basic freedoms etc. and to label, and punish an entire population of people because there is the existance of a few bad apples somewhere is a very naive and psychotic outlook. but also i let her have her opinion, or else i'd not be very honorable trying to force her to think a certain way so it would fit what i think is correct. the teacher let her have her opinion, because, well she's entitled to it. although i suspect she got a bad grade, because the project wasn't particularly elegant or well thought out, nor was it following the guidelines of the project.

and woooooo 400 posts \o/ ... umm, word.

edit: i'm not sure if she ever changed her stance on this. haven't spoken to her since the critique... don't really want to either heh.

edit2: something i was gonna add.... hm......oh yeah, i said more to her... but i really don't wanna type everything ... lazy as i am.

edit3: (yes i wanna stay at 400 posts as long as i can har har) ... anyways, see marksman? we can keep this from personal attacks \o/ .. heh i'm actually kinda surprised no one's attacked anyone else ... so far, heh. *applauds thread goers*

btw, what ever happened to that /me command?

 

[Lil' Timmy]

Because Left-wing reporters tend to put a spin on things, like right-wing reporters tend to. There's nothing necessarily bad about it, just that it's there and it's worth note. Just like how Fox News reporters are mostly right-winged except Colmes from Hannity & Colmes, and maybe some others, and cnn reporters are pretty much left-wing, I don't know of any right-wing CNN reporters.

just fyi, colmes is not a reporter, he's a commentator. generally, the political views of reporters are neither well established nor pervasive in their reporting (there are exceptions i'm sure). however, CNN has plenty of conservative commentators, i'm surprised you've never heard of robert novak, tucker carlson, or jonah goldberg (maybe you just didn't know they worked for cnn). i believe, lynne cheney used to be a commentator on cnn too, but i could be mistaken about that.

btw, weak little colmes is no robert novak