Comprehensive Look At Direct X10, LongHorn, And Palladium!

[poseyjmac]

Originally posted by AmishSlayer
You are trying to be righteous in this situation. It's a word that has to be used in a certain context.

Just a little bit ago you were preaching that everyone should just buy what they want and support the devs and supporting Microsoft in all their actions....and now you admit to pirating software? That, sir...makes you a hypocrite....and in case you ask about it...

hypocrite - n : a person who professes beliefs and opinions that they do not hold.

The reason I asked the question..is to see if you are indeed a hypocrite...which you happened to be...therefore...what respect I had for your opinions...is now gone.

wrong. im not trying to be righteous. its a fact that it is WRONG to pirate software. its not debatable. i support anti-piracy. and that supposedly makes me a self-righteous asshole. oh well

i never admitted to pirating software. quote me. and dont make the mistake of changing my words around or you'll get nailed. go on

 

[poseyjmac]

Originally posted by Loshadka
Huge pile of shit written in negative propaganda purposes! I'm sure that Microsoft understands how many users it will loos if they do that. I don't believe it.

Even if it is so, they will brake the security shit in notime.

they understand how many pirates they will lose. and also how many legitimate users they will gain.

 

[AmishSlayer]

Originally posted by poseyjmac
wrong. im not trying to be righteous. its a fact that it is WRONG to pirate software. its not debatable. i support anti-piracy. and that supposedly makes me a self-righteous asshole. oh well

i never admitted to pirating software. quote me. and dont make the mistake of changing my words around or you'll get nailed. go on

You worded your response carefully...tricksy bastard...I have to hand you that...

If you aren't trying to be righteous...you certainly come off as being so.

 

[Kadayi]

Don't worry amish, I'll nail his balls to the floor again tomorrow. I just read his last few posts and I almost spilt my Hot Chocolate laughing.

 

[poseyjmac]

Originally posted by AmishSlayer
You worded your response carefully...tricksy bastard...I have to hand you that...

If you aren't trying to be righteous...you certainly come off as being so.

i just want people to get what they deserve at their jobs and to not get ripped off. i care more about these people then people who are sad because they can't pirate an app they need.

 

[AmishSlayer]

Originally posted by Kadayi Polokov
Don't worry amish, I'll nail his balls to the floor again tomorrow. I just read his last few posts and I almost spilt my Hot Chocolate laughing.

I'm done with this whole debate for now...unless I see something completely rediculus that really deserves a reply. I'm not in the mood for an intelectual debate right now...getting pretty lazy...maybe I'll go pirate some stuff off the internet just for fun... because pirating makes me the coolest of the cool

EDIT: The way this thread is turning out...it should be renamed to "All our base are belong to Microsoft" or "LongHorn and its power over the masses" or "ARGUE WITH POSEYJMAC because he's the only one on his side...(at least that's speaking up)" ok...I'm done with the nonsense...on this topic..

 

[FortisVir]

I agree with PhantomDesign.

This ridiculous argument with poseyjmac has gotten way out of control and directed peoples attention to the piracy subject, when we should be looking at the privacy and control policies that Longhorn may initiate.

 

[Kschreck]

Thank You FortisVir He's right, lets just ignore poseyjmac. Everyone has their own opinions about LongHorn and Microsoft in general. I honestly believe that Microsoft will fall in the end. They say when you have to much money and power, you become greedy, and thats exactly what Microsoft is. Look around at all the latest Microsoft products and ask yourself are they really anygood? Even Xbox seems to get generic PC ports. It's only good game is Halo inwhich they bought the company. Did you know Halo was going to come out on the PS2 (Also PC Was The First) also Oddworld and Project Gotham Racing were all going to be PS2 games. You can search for them on IGN if you need proof. Microsoft wants nothing more then money and power. It's time that it ends. People are finally starting to realize that Microsoft isn't nice. They don't care about the consumer but rather the consumers wallet. Did you know that more then half of the websites on the Internet run on Linux? Or how about HotMail use to run off of FreeBSD (Might Still Do)? I'd say brace the penguin if you can, and are ready to learn how to use Linux. Linux allows you to control EVERYTHING you do as a user, but with power comes a price. Linux takes some learning. For Newbies I suggest Suse, and always it's free (Legally).

 

[Asus]

Just so you guys know...
Intel plans to include DRM into their CPUs around 2005, before Longhorn is out.
AMD will include DRM in their CPUs around 2006 right when Longhorn comes out.

And since this topic is about Microsoft...
Link

 

[DimitriPopov]

I personally am against Microsoft completely , they may be doing good things now. But the future is grim , think about it. Any company whos software is run on almost EVERY computer has dominance , we are utterly dependent right now. Someone has to develop a worthy competitor or alternative. If Microsoft were to break up or loose market share , I wouldnt shed one single tear as long as there was a good alternative for the world computers. Too bad Bill Gates gives money to charity or I could hate him too.


Anyone saying that Microsoft needs to protect its profits , maybe they dont understand that Bill Gates has BILLIONs. BILLIONs , think about that for a second.

 

[poseyjmac]

Originally posted by Kschreck
Thank You FortisVir He's right, lets just ignore poseyjmac. Everyone has their own opinions about LongHorn and Microsoft in general. I honestly believe that Microsoft will fall in the end. They say when you have to much money and power, you become greedy, and thats exactly what Microsoft is. Look around at all the latest Microsoft products and ask yourself are they really anygood? Even Xbox seems to get generic PC ports. It's only good game is Halo inwhich they bought the company. Did you know Halo was going to come out on the PS2 (Also PC Was The First) also Oddworld and Project Gotham Racing were all going to be PS2 games. You can search for them on IGN if you need proof. Microsoft wants nothing more then money and power. It's time that it ends. People are finally starting to realize that Microsoft isn't nice. They don't care about the consumer but rather the consumers wallet. Did you know that more then half of the websites on the Internet run on Linux? Or how about HotMail use to run off of FreeBSD (Might Still Do)? I'd say brace the penguin if you can, and are ready to learn how to use Linux. Linux allows you to control EVERYTHING you do as a user, but with power comes a price. Linux takes some learning. For Newbies I suggest Suse, and always it's free (Legally).

linux will never be widely accepted by gamers. face it. game developers for the most part wont waste their time. linux will never have good directx support. for a gaming OS linux SUCKS. period

 

[Rico]

If palladium were to ever happen i bet a lot of game developers would move to linux sooner or later... Ever heard of a little thing called OpenGL? Crazy i know, there's an alternative to microsoft.


And poseymac just face it there will always be people who pirate software off the internet if they have a chance to the only reason is because they have better ways to spend their money than to buy every little piece of software they fancy. The world is not a perfect place and believe it or not Palladium may sound good in concept but it will fail in practice. Ever hear of communism? Best system in the world until you put it into practice. What happens? People just don't the programs they can't afford sure, that means only people who have al ot ofm oney buy those programs which in turn causes sales to drop. The developers actually lose money because they lower the prices to try to increase sales but fail miserably because the end user is already accustomed to NOT having to use the program at all. Do you really think the people who make these huge and complicated programs will settle for selling copies for $50? I doubt it.


Sadly, the world currently works like this: There are the few end users who actually buy their software and use it legally, there are the majority of end users who download it and pirate it. Then there's the companies who HAVE to buy the software in order to be able to use it, otherwise face severe legal action.


Palladium would not only alter "legal" programs but also third party software that may be perfectly legal. A lot of upcoming young artists are posting their songs on kazaa and filesharing networks to get publicity, are you saying using these applications to download such material is bad? Everything has the potential to be bad, the point is that the person who uses it MAKES it do something bad...


Anyone who knows the real value of money would tell you that not having pirated software at all is a very stupid thing unless you are rich or just plain close-minded. Freedom of choice... being a poor student doesn't really give you a choice on what to learn does it? What if the person cannot work and they still try to be students? Are you aware that legal inmigrants on certain visas are not allowed to work while they study? Do you realize that in order to do pretty much anything you need money to invest into it?

Learn the value of money... then discuss how pirating hurts everyone.

 

[Faravid]

Thank god there's always crackers gettings rid of palladiums, but anyways what I've read about palladium it's not going to be that bad, but we'll see...

 

[poseyjmac]

Originally posted by Rico
If palladium were to ever happen i bet a lot of game developers would move to linux sooner or later... Ever heard of a little thing called OpenGL? Crazy i know, there's an alternative to microsoft.


And poseymac just face it there will always be people who pirate software off the internet if they have a chance to the only reason is because they have better ways to spend their money than to buy every little piece of software they fancy. The world is not a perfect place and believe it or not Palladium may sound good in concept but it will fail in practice. Ever hear of communism? Best system in the world until you put it into practice. What happens? People just don't the programs they can't afford sure, that means only people who have al ot ofm oney buy those programs which in turn causes sales to drop. The developers actually lose money because they lower the prices to try to increase sales but fail miserably because the end user is already accustomed to NOT having to use the program at all. Do you really think the people who make these huge and complicated programs will settle for selling copies for $50? I doubt it.


Sadly, the world currently works like this: There are the few end users who actually buy their software and use it legally, there are the majority of end users who download it and pirate it. Then there's the companies who HAVE to buy the software in order to be able to use it, otherwise face severe legal action.


Palladium would not only alter "legal" programs but also third party software that may be perfectly legal. A lot of upcoming young artists are posting their songs on kazaa and filesharing networks to get publicity, are you saying using these applications to download such material is bad? Everything has the potential to be bad, the point is that the person who uses it MAKES it do something bad...


Anyone who knows the real value of money would tell you that not having pirated software at all is a very stupid thing unless you are rich or just plain close-minded. Freedom of choice... being a poor student doesn't really give you a choice on what to learn does it? What if the person cannot work and they still try to be students? Are you aware that legal inmigrants on certain visas are not allowed to work while they study? Do you realize that in order to do pretty much anything you need money to invest into it?

Learn the value of money... then discuss how pirating hurts everyone.

you are really only looking at life from one side. you seem to think its okay to rip off people behind companies that work hard to make software, but its a sin to not give poor students free software. but come back to reality, where its a lesser of two evils to support the ones who actually have jobs and need to make a living.

i have no sympathy for someone who will resort to ripping off other people so they can learn about an app. you apparently support piracy, as long as it benefits lazy college students. oh but fvck those who actually work hard at their job and had to earn what they got to get their jobs as opposed to the lazy smacktards you speak of that will cry if they can't download whatever they want for free. boo hoo. you are a typical representation of the lazy generation of americans i have to live with. and if you're not from america, well you would fit in very well here.

and yes i am aware of opengl, but unfortunately there are not many devs that support opengl like carmack, so directx is going to be the most popular platform of the future.

 

[crabcakes66]

i think all of you(and me) pirated software users are not looking at the big picture......


we make up about 3% of all people that use windows....


no one else cares....or will even notice that they will be forced to use what MS wants them to use.......

all they care about is that it works.....

and they have better protection from e-mail spam....and viruses.



face it..........50% of people that use windows do so for word proccesing, e-mail, basic web surfing and a few other things like power point or tax programs.

 

[Faravid]

Originally posted by crabcakes66
i think all of you(and me) pirated software users are not looking at the big picture......


we make up about 3% of all people that use windows....


no one else cares....or will even notice that they will be forced to use what MS wants them to use.......

all they care about is that it works.....

and they have better protection from e-mail spam....and viruses.



face it..........50% of people that use windows do so for word proccesing, e-mail, basic web surfing and a few other things like power point or tax programs.

Yeah, Palladium is optional I read, recommended for those who can't/don't know how to protect against viruses etc...

 

[MooCow]

Just one point, its a fallacy to say that is software piracy was eliminated developers would be better off. Companies will charge what the market will bear irrespective of piracy and what would happen to the increased profits gained by reducing piracy? well let me just say you naive if you think they'll all go back into R&D and the developers pockets they'll more likely be used to add another zero to salary of the board members.

The profit margin on software is greater than almost all other industries it this wasn't the case then I'd have some sympathy with the anti piracy crowd.

 

[crabcakes66]

Originally posted by MooCow
Just one point, its a fallacy to say that is software piracy was eliminated developers would be better off. Companies will charge what the market will bear irrespective of piracy and what would happen to the increased profits gained by reducing piracy? well let me just say you naive if you think they'll all go back into R&D and the developers pockets they'll more likely be used to add another zero to salary of the board members.

The profit margin on software is greater than almost all other industries it this wasn't the case then I'd have some sympathy with the anti piracy crowd.

true........

but according to the software/music/movie industrys....we are taking money out of joe progammers pocket.....


id have to agree with you though. ....joe programmer will still make his 30grand a year.......

regardless of piracy.......... its the "fat cats" who stand to put a few more ferraris in there driveway at the end of the day.

 

[Maskirovka]

Originally posted by poseyjmac
linux will never have good directx support. for a gaming OS linux SUCKS. period

that's because microsoft created directx and has made it inseparable from PC gaming. therefore non-microsoft OS's will never support directx and will never be good gaming platforms unless there is another standard. i really don't like most id software games but carmack is right to avoid directx.

Originally posted by poseyjmac
you are really only looking at life from one side.

you have been doing the same thing for this entire thread.

 

[Kschreck]

poseyjmac you would be very surprised to see how many people now use Linux. Even most of the bigger countries Governments have switched to Linux. (United States, China, Germany, Most Of Europe, ETC) so you just never know what will happend to Linux. Also their are development groups making games for linux. You can buy some here at www.tuxgames.com also theirs groups making Windows games work in Linux. Wine and Wine X (Posted Neat Beginning Of This Thread) they have gotten games like Grand Theft Auto 3 and Vice City to work. They got WarCraft 3 and Frozen Throne to work. They even manage to get Steam and the rest of Valve products to work, and all the games work perfect. Linux Isn't Going Anywhere, and believe it or not theirs a LOT of people who are fed up with Microsoft. -It's Time For A Change-

AWESOME Microsoft Paroday (70MB) Worth The Download:

http://www.fh-wolfenbuettel.de/fb/m/03/sonstiges/wavundavi/winsongs.mov

 

[Gorgon]

Originally posted by Kschreck
poseyjmac you would be very surprised to see how many people now use Linux.

Your right but do you know that Linux is mainly used for networking and Application Developments. Its not a game based platform.

Longhorn will be the best operating system since the first IBM OS.

DirectX10 + PCIEX + Aero technology will give an amasing experience, but Long time to wait (2006). :dozey:

 

[simmo]

Which would you go for:

A) Try longhorn as soon as it comes
B) Wait until what other people say until you get it
C) Screw microsoft, and get linux
D) Keep older versions of windows knowing that hardware wont just support longhorn.

Well, for me, its a mix between C and D

 

[Gorgon]

B)

 

[crabcakes66]

Originally posted by simmo
Which would you go for:

A) Try longhorn as soon as it comes
B) Wait until what other people say until you get it
C) Screw microsoft, and get linux
D) Keep older versions of windows knowing that hardware wont just support longhorn.

Well, for me, its a mix between C and D

i choose option B........ wait and see.

you should make a poll.

 

[simmo]

Originally posted by crabcakes66
i choose option B........ wait and see.

you should make a poll.

bah, i'm too tired, someone else do it lol

 

[Maskirovka]

Originally posted by poseyjmac
talented, but lazy you mean. you are correct. its time people get jobs and contribute to the economy to accomplish their goals like any other hard working citizen should do.

i could get a job at burger king for a short time and buy 3dsmax. its not that hard

ahhaahhahha 3d studio max costs like $3500.

Originally posted by Dedalus
what do you guys think longhorn will do to creativity? most people i know who are proficient with photoshop or 3dmax or other programs started off with pirated versions. will longhorn mean that talented but poor people can't express themselves?

imo, companies like microsoft, macromedia, and adobe benefit from piracy in a way. if one piece of software becomes popular among users, then more people know how to use it. then, if employers try to use unpopular software, nobody knows how to use it and they have to spend tons of money training everyone on the new stuff. if everyone pirates photoshop and gets good at it, they'll encourage their employers to use that software. they benefit from popularity and notariety.

it's part of how a "monopoly" is made. microsoft makes waaaay more money selling to business than the home market. most of the home market is served through OEM deals, which is not all that profitable. OEM deals just serve to spread your name and technology around just like piracy does.

of course this isn't a justification for piracy...it's wrong. but i'll get to that later.

Originally posted by Kadayi Polokov
Moving between different Modelling packages is not like changing suits. If I'm an employer and I use Lightwave for example and I have a job going, and two guys apply, one who can use lightwave, and the other who can use C4D. Guess whose going to get the job? Time is money, and todays employers expect people to possess skills, not have to teach them.

exactly...goes with what i was just saying.

Originally posted by poseyjmac
still, if a modeller is serious about modelling, he will find a way to get what he wants. lets leave it at that. its ridiculous that you are trying to justify piracy with this.

these people that couldn't get a job unless they pirated a 3d modelling program, aren't valuable employees in the first place if they cant earn what they want legitimately.

do you understand that there are poor people? or people without extra money to spend on software? you're asking the wrong questions, stating the wrong facts. why do people pirate software in the first place?

Originally posted by poseyjmac
so my answer is, old enough to know how life works.

clearly this is not the case. i would bet that you're in the magic 20-25 range where you've gotten past the "i know everything" stage and progressed to the "now i'm old enough to know how everything works, even though i don't know everything" stage

====================================

here's the real problem, which nobody has addressed.

-Why are we obsessed with treating the symptoms of problems and not finding a real solution?
-Why do we fight the war on drugs by spraying colombian farmers' coca crops instead of providing them with an incentive to grow coffee instead?
-Why do we fight battle after battle in the middle east instead of working harder to find an alternative to their oil?
-Why do we fight piracy by continuing to try to make it impossible, when it will never be impossible without some nazi-like system?

I'll tell you why.

because there are two types of people in the world. there are two ways of solving problems:
A: make it easier for people to make the right decisions
B: take away the possibility of the wrong decision

B is the way you treat children. A is the way you treat adults. as in all of these situations, the world has tried method B. method B has been shown to be utter crap. it has been shown to be physically impossible without some 1984-like government. B is impossible when combined with freedom. B just makes people more rebellious and want the wrong decision even more.

Also, the problem with method A is that it takes too long. people don't have the paitence. Furthermore, method A in most cases won't produce results in a person's lifetime. It also doesn't produce results in the short term...especially during the 4 years each Presidential administration gets to produce results.

therefore most democratic political systems are inherently short-sighted.
The solution?

use a mix of the two. a balance. you use method B to calm the effects of a problem, and method A to actually solve it. the fcking problem is that nobody seems interested in actually solving any problems.

i need to write a book about this. it would be called "you won't read this book because you love option B too much." :\

 

[FortisVir]

Originally posted by Maskirovka
snip

well said.


Coming soon to a bookstore near you..... The Option B Pandemic

 

[Maskirovka]

Originally posted by FortisVir
Coming soon to a bookstore near you..... The Option B Pandemic

lol...that's a good title

perhaps a bit too robert ludlum...if only i knew latin for "the second option"
if that was one word in latin, it'd be a robert ludlum book title

if you don't know what i'm talking about, ludlum wrote the bourne identity...all his titles have a theme.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/s...eld-author=Ludlum, Robert/002-2423565-0679240

someone wrote a program that would make up random titles for him, but i can't find it anywhere anymore...all the google pages i found point to the same thing that's a 404 error. i think you get the idea from the amazon page though

 

[iamironsam]

Originally posted by Maskirovka
because there are two types of people in the world. there are two ways of solving problems:
A: make it easier for people to make the right decisions
B: take away the possibility of the wrong decision

I think we've made it abundantly clear that given the choice, we will make the wrong decisions no matter what. And given the lack of consquences and accessibility of these wrong decisions, they've become commonplace.

I see polls all the time that say 60 and 70% of music pirates would stop downloading music illegally if the cost of CDs weren't so high. And yet, even with programs like iTunes that let you download songs for 99 cents a piece, people continue to download illegal music at a growing rate.*

I can't believe you people would be shocked that MS would implement such aggressive guerilla tactics against piracy. I've seen this comming for a long time, and truthfully, I'm suprised it hasn't happened already. Somebody has to babysit us in order to stop illegal activity on the internet, because we've proven that we're not gonna do it ourselves.


*The most popular illegal downloads are pop singles, which also happen to be the easiest to find in programs like iTunes.

 

[mrchimp]

Linux is not a gameing platform, it's too hard to get running for most people on this forum never mind the rest of the gameing population. I still can't get my 3d acceleration module to install, despite trying official, unofficial ATi drivers and serveral different versions of the linux kernel with all the things that could cause a conflict with the ATi module ripped out. I suppose i could get a different distro and see if that works but i doubt it will make any difference and I won't know if it makes any difference untill I have the time to try it.

I'm not that desperate to move to a different version of windows, not untill I have a 64bit CPU.

 

[Maskirovka]

Originally posted by iamironsam
I think we've made it abundantly clear that given the choice, we will make the wrong decisions no matter what. And given the lack of consquences and accessibility of these wrong decisions, they've become commonplace.

you're missing the point, sir. read the part where i say a balance between the two is needed.

Originally posted by iamironsam
I see polls all the time that say 60 and 70% of music pirates would stop downloading music illegally if the cost of CDs weren't so high. And yet, even with programs like iTunes that let you download songs for 99 cents a piece, people continue to download illegal music at a growing rate.*

perhaps apple needs to do a better job of advertising for iTunes. Honestly, i think most people don't know that iTunes exists, how easy it is to use, etc.

if you did a poll of those 60-70% of people who say they would stop, i bet you'd find that a majority of them don't know about iTunes.

 

[Maskirovka]

Originally posted by mrchimp
Linux is not a gameing platform, it's too hard to get running for most people on this forum never mind the rest of the gameing population.

but linux is open source. a more user-friendly version could be made. it's directx that's the problem. so many developers use it, and it doesn't work with linux...and it never will. therefore the more ingrained directx becomes in the gaming industry, the more of a stranglehold microsoft will have.

 

[Varg|Hund]

Originally posted by simmo
Which would you go for:

A) Try longhorn as soon as it comes
B) Wait until what other people say until you get it
C) Screw microsoft, and get linux
D) Keep older versions of windows knowing that hardware wont just support longhorn.

Well, for me, its a mix between C and D

I would probarly go for D, and maybe C in a worst-case scenario...

 

[iamironsam]

Originally posted by Maskirovka
you're missing the point, sir. read the part where i say a balance between the two is needed.

No, I understand your point and I think you're mistaken. People don't download illegal music, games, and programs because they're too expensive or too hard to attain. They download them because it's free and it's easy. How else would you convince someone to do otherwise without either making it harder to download illegal material or imposing tougher consequences?

Originally posted by Maskirovka
perhaps apple needs to do a better job of advertising for iTunes. Honestly, i think most people don't know that iTunes exists, how easy it is to use, etc.

if you did a poll of those 60-70% of people who say they would stop, i bet you'd find that a majority of them don't know about iTunes.

You're telling me that if everyone was aware of iTunes that a descent percentage of them would quit downloading free music? Maybe I'm just cynical, but I find that hard to believe.

 

[Maskirovka]

i know my awesome book-worthy theory is going to get lost in the quagmire of stupidity that makes up the majority of these forums :\

 

[mrchimp]

Originally posted by Maskirovka
but linux is open source. a more user-friendly version could be made. it's directx that's the problem. so many developers use it, and it doesn't work with linux...and it never will. therefore the more ingrained directx becomes in the gaming industry, the more of a stranglehold microsoft will have.

There is a more user friendly version called Lindows lol.

 

[iamironsam]

I was under the impression that Red Hat is the most user friendly version of Linux and yet it's still a pain in the ass.

 

[mrchimp]

I'v been told Lindows is, i think redhat is about as user friendly as mandrake which is a major pain in the ass.

on a completely unrelated topic this is very funny: http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/3dmark03/340/index.php?p=5

Nvidia cheat?... nah.

 

[Maskirovka]

i know about all the different versions of linux, but you're missing my point, which is that if enough good programmers get sick of microsoft's bullshit, a good version of linux could be made.

what should happen, imo:
all linux developers get together with all the top gaming companies in a big ass conference and make a set of tools like directx and opengl.
then linux could be this big ass nationwide standard where changes are made by comittee and not by profit-driven microsoft.

ok, talking about linux is getting off topic...i know it's an alternative to microsoft, but we're supposed to be talking about how microsoft sucks, not how linux is good :\

 

[iamironsam]

See Maskirovka, I think you're wrong about that. I feel that game and program developers will rally behind Longhorn. True many of them may object to it initially, but sooner or later they'll realize how much better for business it is.

It would be nice if all game companies were really doing it "for the love", but the truth is they too have bills to pay. They all can't be privately funded by huge corporations and universities like the majority of Linux programmers. If Longhorn can deliver the type of anti-piracy protection that Microsoft claims, I'm sure it will become the OS of choice for game developers.