Comprehensive Look At Direct X10, LongHorn, And Palladium!

[Maskirovka]

Originally posted by iamironsam
See Maskirovka, I think you're wrong about that. I feel that game and program developers will rally behind Longhorn. True many of them may object to it initially, but sooner or later they'll realize how much better for business it is.

It would be nice if all game companies were really doing it "for the love", but the truth is they too have bills to pay. They all can't be privately funded by huge corporations and universities like the majority of Linux programmers. If Longhorn can deliver the type of anti-piracy protection that Microsoft claims, I'm sure it will become the OS of choice for game developers.

whatever...i said what i think "should" happen.

of course it won't happen...of course you're right. people don't want to solve the problem of piracy, they just want to punish the people who do it, which is retarded. you need to do both...punish,prevent AND solve.

they're just doing the first two.

 

[Lil' Timmy]

Originally posted by Maskirovka
both...punish,prevent AND solve.

 

[Direwolf]

I think the heart of the matter with this whole thing is that there are two different paths Microsoft can take.
One, they clamp down like crazy on piracy/hacking/warez. This would result a very closed environment, and likely bring the entire software industry to the breaking point.
Or two, they become much more open and allow users more control over their computer than they ever have, while still keeping it accessable to newer users.
What we have to ask is why are we using a PC, and not a Mac or anything else? For most people it is not only a question of compatability, but freedom. There's not really a limit to what you can do with your computer, be it legal or illegal. This freedom is great, its what allows you to make your own computer, your own programs, and use your computer as a practical tool.
But were Longhorn to come to fruition and be every bit as bad as we fear, we'd lose this freedom, and in turn much of the practicality of the PC.
In the end anti-piracy measures not only have a negative effect upon pirates, but everyone involved. MS is treading a very fine line, and were they to ever overstep their bounds, expect to see them toppled from their throne.

 

[Maxi]

Originally posted by Maskirovka

if you did a poll of those 60-70% of people who say they would stop, i bet you'd find that a majority of them don't know about iTunes.

But most of us who would buy the music don't have a cc or ability to pay online or overseas, i would buy it if i could get it on cd from a shop at a much cheaper price then it is now.

 

[iamironsam]

Originally posted by Maskirovka
whatever...i said what i think "should" happen.

of course it won't happen...of course you're right. people don't want to solve the problem of piracy, they just want to punish the people who do it, which is retarded. you need to do both...punish,prevent AND solve.

they're just doing the first two.

Haha, I guess I just don't understand how you could ever "solve" piracy. Teach people how detrimental it is to the music/gaming/software industry? Make music and software less expensive? Create new storage mediums that inherently protect it's content? Please enlighten me.

 

[Lil' Timmy]

Originally posted by iamironsam
I was under the impression that Red Hat is the most user friendly version of Linux and yet it's still a pain in the ass.

i've used red-hat 7-9 before as well as SuSE. red-hat's a piece of cake.

 

[mrchimp]

Originally posted by Maskirovka
i know about all the different versions of linux, but you're missing my point, which is that if enough good programmers get sick of microsoft's bullshit, a good version of linux could be made.

what should happen, imo:
all linux developers get together with all the top gaming companies in a big ass conference and make a set of tools like directx and opengl.
then linux could be this big ass nationwide standard where changes are made by comittee and not by profit-driven microsoft.

ok, talking about linux is getting off topic...i know it's an alternative to microsoft, but we're supposed to be talking about how microsoft sucks, not how linux is good :\

I think OpenGL is the way to go, there's no need to make another graphics library.

 

[Lil' Timmy]

Originally posted by iamironsam
Haha, I guess I just don't understand how you could ever "solve" piracy. Teach people how detrimental it is to the music/gaming/software industry? Make music and software less expensive? Create new storage mediums that inherently protect it's content? Please enlighten me.

yeah, you really can't "solve" piracy, but you can mitigate it. i'd certainly agree that punishing the end-user of piracy isn't the smartest way to mitigate though. but taking mp3s as the std. example, how else can you deal with music piracy?

 

[mrchimp]

Originally posted by Lil' Timmy
i've used red-hat 7-9 before as well as SuSE. red-hat's a piece of cake.

Or your just one lucky mother ****er.

 

[iamironsam]

Originally posted by Lil' Timmy
yeah, you really can't "solve" piracy, but you can mitigate it. i'd certainly agree that punishing the end-user of piracy isn't the smartest way to mitigate though. but taking mp3s as the std. example, how else can you deal with music piracy?

Exactly my point. Maybe we just don't have the pleasure of living in the utopian society that some of these people seem to Timmy.

 

[mrchimp]

I know how to solve piracy... orbital death satilites that can read your mind.

 

[Lil' Timmy]

Originally posted by iamironsam
Exactly my point. Maybe we just don't have the pleasure of living in the utopian society that some of these people seem to Timmy.

speak for yourself asshat! i've got utopia coming out of every orifice! :burp:

oh and 'chimp' (if that is your real name), redhat.. installation, maintenance.. there are instructions you know. 9 is definitely more "user-friendly" than earlier versions though.

 

[iamironsam]

Never try to side with Timmy. He's not a good team player.

Oh, and Red Hat was total pain in the ass. I couldn't get it to work with my NIC, so I bought a new one. Then getting my DSL to work was a pain in the ass cause I couldn't find right DNS server IPs, which Verizon isn't too quick to hand out. Half Life ran like total ass under WINE, and forget about Tribes 2. And half the programs I was running were completely text based, no GUIs even for the setup.

Maybe Linux does have the potential to be more user-friendly, but for now it's just an uneccesary pain in my opinion.

 

[mrchimp]

no it's not my real name and... well I can't really be arsed to argue about why redhat is not easy to use, some windows fanboy will come along and do it for me in a minute.

 

[Lil' Timmy]

Originally posted by iamironsam
Never try to side with Timmy. He's not a good team player.

Oh, and Red Hat was total pain in the ass. I couldn't get it to work with my NIC, so I bought a new one. Then getting my DSL to work was a pain in the ass cause I couldn't find right DNS server IPs, which Verizon isn't too quick to hand out. Half Life ran like total ass under WINE, and forget about Tribes 2. And half the programs I was running were completely text based, no GUIs even for the setup.

Maybe Linux does have the potential to be more user-friendly, but for now it's just an uneccesary pain in my opinion.

oh crap, we were on a team? damn, who are we playing? um, yeah see the problem is you're using all the wrong aspects of linux. i used it to crunch numbers on a workstation. everything you mentioned is probably not a good idea GUIs???? haha, dude, c0mm&d 1!n3 |2 t3h 0wn0|2z!!!!!11!!2@1!threeminustwo!!2@!!1!!11! didn't you know?

 

[iamironsam]

Originally posted by Lil' Timmy
oh crap, we were on a team? damn, who are we playing? um, yeah see the problem is you're using all the wrong aspects of linux. i used it to crunch numbers on a workstation. everything you mentioned is probably not a good idea GUIs???? haha, dude, c0mm&d 1!n3 |2 t3h 0wn0|2z!!!!!11!!2@1!threeminustwo!!2@!!1!!11! didn't you know?

Then go push your Linux propaganda on people that actually care about that sort of crap. This is a game forum, you're not gonna convert anyone here.

 

[Lil' Timmy]

prompts are sexy.

but yeah, seriously, linux will never be any good at the stuff you mentioned. i didn't know that's what you were trying to use it for. honestly if you're not doing 80% command line interface, all linux is ****ville. OSX is the only unix shell that does a good job with the GUI

 

[mrchimp]

my linux GUI looks nice.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Right, I'm just popping in from time to time now, as I'm sure you know

And I really felt I had to post in this thread, about this.

You said that people who want to model/program etc who pirate their software are lazy. I'm sorry, but that is an incredibly ignorant comment. I have to pay for EVERYTHING apart from food and electricity (gas, water etc). And guess how many games I own? 5. Halo, Max Payne, Warcraft 3, Medal of Honour and Half Life.

Lazy? Excuse me, but that is flame bait, and I'm sure some people would take it as such... in order to compile code for Operation Everlasting Shadow (as an example) I would need to purchase Microsoft Visual C++.NET Professional Edition. I have absolutly no idea how much it costs. But I know it's more than £1000. Now how the hell am I supposed to pay for that... being in full-time education... and at a very important stage too, that will determine my future. However I want to buy these programs, but I can't.. there is NO WAY I could...

 

[poseyjmac]

Originally posted by Kschreck
poseyjmac you would be very surprised to see how many people now use Linux. Even most of the bigger countries Governments have switched to Linux. (United States, China, Germany, Most Of Europe, ETC) so you just never know what will happend to Linux. Also their are development groups making games for linux. You can buy some here at www.tuxgames.com also theirs groups making Windows games work in Linux. Wine and Wine X (Posted Neat Beginning Of This Thread) they have gotten games like Grand Theft Auto 3 and Vice City to work. They got WarCraft 3 and Frozen Throne to work. They even manage to get Steam and the rest of Valve products to work, and all the games work perfect. Linux Isn't Going Anywhere, and believe it or not theirs a LOT of people who are fed up with Microsoft. -It's Time For A Change-

AWESOME Microsoft Paroday (70MB) Worth The Download:

http://www.fh-wolfenbuettel.de/fb/m/03/sonstiges/wavundavi/winsongs.mov

hey dont get me wrong i like linux a lot and hope it does well. but being a hardcore gamer im going to probably be using an MS os. im not gonna let any conspiracy theory about MS infringing on freedom to eventually take over the world get in my way to play my games

 

[Kadayi]

Originally posted by Maskirovka
Snip all the posts since I went to Bed

You dude are generally on my wave length, about a lot of things, that is no bad thing.

Poseymac get a job and perhaps you might learn how real businesses work, as opposed to the fictional model in your head. As an employee you'll be salaried at a rate, comparable to other similar positions within whatever industry you end up in. You might be lucky and get a small annual bonus based on productivity and profit margins, but the bulk of a companies profits go to the directors and shareholders. If the world worked the way you envisaged, I expect that Microsofts cleaners would all be driving porsches :dozey:

 

[poseyjmac]

Originally posted by Maskirovka
that's because microsoft created directx and has made it inseparable from PC gaming. therefore non-microsoft OS's will never support directx and will never be good gaming platforms unless there is another standard. i really don't like most id software games but carmack is right to avoid directx.



you have been doing the same thing for this entire thread.

why is carmack right to avoid directx? is valve stupid for embracing it?
is there something inherently wrong about using directx?

the problem is, is that a lot of you have some conspiracy theory about how MS is going to take over the world if most games use directx in the future. but if you lose your paranoia for a second, you will realize that as a gamer, theres nothing to be paranoid about.

and no, you are wrong yet again, i have looked at it from both angles. i have several posts where i have said i realize how anti-piracy affects people in a negative way.

 

[poseyjmac]

Originally posted by Kadayi Polokov
You dude are generally on my wave length, about a lot of things, that is no bad thing.

Poseymac get a job and perhaps you might learn how real businesses work, as opposed to the fictional model in your head. As an employee you'll be salaried at a rate, comparable to other similar positions within whatever industry you end up in. You might be lucky and get a small annual bonus based on productivity and profit margins, but the bulk of a companies profits go to the directors and shareholders. If the world worked the way you envisaged, I expect that Microsofts cleaners would all be driving porsches :dozey:

there you go again trying to assume you know what i do in life. why dont you save yourself some embarassment, and stop now. if you are looking for one of those feelings that you 'beat' me in this forum with one of your weak posts. you can give up now. your intellect will not allow it.

 

[poseyjmac]

Originally posted by Maskirovka
ahhaahhahha 3d studio max costs like $3500.



imo, companies like microsoft, macromedia, and adobe benefit from piracy in a way. if one piece of software becomes popular among users, then more people know how to use it. then, if employers try to use unpopular software, nobody knows how to use it and they have to spend tons of money training everyone on the new stuff. if everyone pirates photoshop and gets good at it, they'll encourage their employers to use that software. they benefit from popularity and notariety.

it's part of how a "monopoly" is made. microsoft makes waaaay more money selling to business than the home market. most of the home market is served through OEM deals, which is not all that profitable. OEM deals just serve to spread your name and technology around just like piracy does.

of course this isn't a justification for piracy...it's wrong. but i'll get to that later.



exactly...goes with what i was just saying.



do you understand that there are poor people? or people without extra money to spend on software? you're asking the wrong questions, stating the wrong facts. why do people pirate software in the first place?



clearly this is not the case. i would bet that you're in the magic 20-25 range where you've gotten past the "i know everything" stage and progressed to the "now i'm old enough to know how everything works, even though i don't know everything" stage

====================================

here's the real problem, which nobody has addressed.

-Why are we obsessed with treating the symptoms of problems and not finding a real solution?
-Why do we fight the war on drugs by spraying colombian farmers' coca crops instead of providing them with an incentive to grow coffee instead?
-Why do we fight battle after battle in the middle east instead of working harder to find an alternative to their oil?
-Why do we fight piracy by continuing to try to make it impossible, when it will never be impossible without some nazi-like system?

I'll tell you why.

because there are two types of people in the world. there are two ways of solving problems:
A: make it easier for people to make the right decisions
B: take away the possibility of the wrong decision

B is the way you treat children. A is the way you treat adults. as in all of these situations, the world has tried method B. method B has been shown to be utter crap. it has been shown to be physically impossible without some 1984-like government. B is impossible when combined with freedom. B just makes people more rebellious and want the wrong decision even more.

Also, the problem with method A is that it takes too long. people don't have the paitence. Furthermore, method A in most cases won't produce results in a person's lifetime. It also doesn't produce results in the short term...especially during the 4 years each Presidential administration gets to produce results.

therefore most democratic political systems are inherently short-sighted.
The solution?

use a mix of the two. a balance. you use method B to calm the effects of a problem, and method A to actually solve it. the fcking problem is that nobody seems interested in actually solving any problems.

i need to write a book about this. it would be called "you won't read this book because you love option B too much." :\

why do people pirate software in the first place? well we can start with asking you. why do you pirate software in the first place?

heres the answer, convenience.

and the answer to your pasted essay is B. because humans inherently are evil and act like children, so they must be TREATED like children. why does no one whine about police officers? they are around so people dont do 'chilidish' things. humans have proven themselves to be untrustworthy so they will lose more freedoms for the sake of hard working citizens.

 

[Kadayi]

Originally posted by poseyjmac
there you go again trying to assume you know what i do in life. why dont you save yourself some embarassment, and stop now. if you are looking for one of those feelings that you 'beat' me in this forum with one of your weak posts. you can give up now. your intellect will not allow it.

LOL, you were 'beaten' by yourself way back in this thread, by your own double standards regarding piracy:dozey:. I'm just amused by the fact that the bulk of your argument rests on an utterly naive understanding of how businesses work and who profits in them.

 

[thehunter1320]

they can take my OS... but they can't take my freedom!!!

 

[poseyjmac]

Originally posted by Kadayi Polokov
LOL, you were 'beaten' by yourself way back in this thread, by your own double standards regarding piracy:dozey:.

prove it with quotes. or im ignoring you once and for all. you need to back up your claims or get the **** out of the thread, son.

 

[JonTheCanuck]

Originally posted by poseyjmac
there you go again trying to assume you know what i do in life. why dont you save yourself some embarassment, and stop now. if you are looking for one of those feelings that you 'beat' me in this forum with one of your weak posts. you can give up now. your intellect will not allow it.

honestly posey, he's got more intellect and insight on these matters than u. You've got yur opinion and figure anybody with anything different is completely incorrect. But u honestly dont understand how the world works. U said yourself people have proven themselves to be scumbags, what makes u think that the people over at microsoft are any different? Not like they're all saints there. Remember how microsoft was almost split up due to the fact they're trying to monopolize? Well its still happening, and u dont have enough world experience to understand it. I'm sure u'll start yur next quote with "you're wrong" or something along those lines, but everybody else on the forum knows that it is infact u who doesn't have a clue. But lets hear the next witty high intellect remarks u have, i'm sure it'll be vague and avoiding of any real facts so that later comments about it will be easy for u to manipulate and change so u dont seem so false.

 

[poseyjmac]

Originally posted by JonTheCanuck
honestly posey, he's got more intellect and insight on these matters than u. You've got yur opinion and figure anybody with anything different is completely incorrect. But u honestly dont understand how the world works. U said yourself people have proven themselves to be scumbags, what makes u think that the people over at microsoft are any different? Not like they're all saints there. Remember how microsoft was almost split up due to the fact they're trying to monopolize? Well its still happening, and u dont have enough world experience to understand it. I'm sure u'll start yur next quote with "you're wrong" or something along those lines, but everybody else on the forum knows that it is infact u who doesn't have a clue. But lets hear the next witty high intellect remarks u have, i'm sure it'll be vague and avoiding of any real facts so that later comments about it will be easy for u to manipulate and change so u dont seem so false.

some things aren't debatable. which you seem to think are, like piracy affecting more than just the big wigs of a company. i can see how people like you act, as you pirate software. but if you can't see how people at microsoft act. you have no proof. so you have nothing and are contributing just as much as kadayai polskivich or whatever the **** that guys name is.


cmon im waiting for you to prove that microsoft are scumbags.

 

[JonTheCanuck]

Originally posted by poseyjmac
some things aren't debatable. which you seem to think are, like piracy affecting more than just the big wigs of a company. i can see how people like you act, as you pirate software. but if you can't see how people at microsoft act. you have no proof. so you have nothing and are contributing just as much as kadayai polskivich or whatever the **** that guys name is.


cmon im waiting for you to prove that microsoft are scumbags.

lol prove that they aren't, and people that aren't executives work on FIXED WAGES, so it DOESN'T MATTER how much extra income gets pulled in. None of the people at microsoft are starving to death trust me. All the extra income that they make would go directly to the people up top, not the lower end workers.

 

[Kadayi]

Originally posted by poseyjmac
prove it with quotes. or im ignoring you once and for all. you need to back up your claims or get the **** out of the thread, son.

Son....LMAO. I don't to prove your duplicity, it's plain for all to see. Your nothing but a junior league troll, and not even a good one at that. Please debase yourself some more in all our eyes :dozey:

 

[poseyjmac]

Originally posted by JonTheCanuck
lol prove that they aren't, and people that aren't executives work on FIXED WAGES, so it DOESN'T MATTER how much extra income gets pulled in. None of the people at microsoft are starving to death trust me. All the extra income that they make would go directly to the people up top, not the lower end workers.

new jobs you dolt. NEW JOBS. the more money earned, the more money that can be allocated to other departments for expansion. which means more low level jobs and high level jobs. whats sad is, most software pirates are as misinformed as you are. MS like other companies want to expand. its a part of business. and expansion means more jobs.

ok ill say it again, because you probably didn't get it the first time.

new jobs you dolt. NEW JOBS. the more money earned, the more money that can be allocated to other departments for expansion. which means more low level jobs and high level jobs. whats sad is, most software pirates are as misinformed as you are. MS like other companies want to expand. its a part of business. and expansion means more jobs.

 

[Kadayi]

Originally posted by poseyjmac
new jobs you dolt. NEW JOBS. the more money earned, the more money that can be allocated to other departments for expansion. which means more low level jobs and high level jobs. whats sad is, most software pirates are as misinformed as you are. MS like other companies want to expand. its a part of business. and expansion means more jobs.

ok ill say it again, because you probably didn't get it the first time.

new jobs you dolt. NEW JOBS. the more money earned, the more money that can be allocated to other departments for expansion. which means more low level jobs and high level jobs. whats sad is, most software pirates are as misinformed as you are. MS like other companies want to expand. its a part of business. and expansion means more jobs.

You don't expand, you just buy up the competition:dozey:

 

[Lil' Timmy]

while i personally think posey won b/c he called kadayi "son"
we have this little dilema:

Originally posted by poseyjmac
cmon im waiting for you to prove that microsoft are scumbags.

and earlier i believe the phrase was "humans inherently are evil"? not only did you split your infinitive, but it certainly sounds like a contradiction. i mean if people are evil, why wouldn't MS be evil too? i think the onus may be on you now, 'son'.

 

[JonTheCanuck]

lol more jobs? u realize that by holding a monopoly they force other companies to GO OUT OF BUSINESS, u know what that means? LESS JOBS "u dolt." You see, they're forcing people to use only their programs in their new systems, and with the new direct x being only compatible with ms OS, anything not using it suffers financially so people go out of business.

Oh here, i'll say it twice cause its so cool.

lol more jobs? u realize that by holding a monopoly they force other companies to GO OUT OF BUSINESS, u know what that means? LESS JOBS "u dolt." You see, they're forcing people to use only their programs in their new systems, and with the new direct x being only compatible with ms OS, anything not using it suffers financially so people go out of business.

 

[Lil' Timmy]

Originally posted by JonTheCanuck
lol more jobs? u realize that by holding a monopoly they force other companies to GO OUT OF BUSINESS, u know what that means? LESS JOBS "u dolt." You see, they're forcing people to use only their programs in their new systems, and with the new direct x being only compatible with ms OS, anything not using it suffers financially so people go out of business.

hmm, well if they go out of business then -JOBS, but MS can expand into their space and then +JOBS.. stick with the monopoly thing, the jobs arguement doesn't hold water.

 

[poseyjmac]

Originally posted by JonTheCanuck
lol more jobs? u realize that by holding a monopoly they force other companies to GO OUT OF BUSINESS, u know what that means? LESS JOBS "u dolt." You see, they're forcing people to use only theirs programs in their new systems, and with the new direct x being only compatible with ms OS, anything not using it suffers financially so people go out of business.

Oh here, i'll say it twice cause its so cool.

lol more jobs? u realize that by holding a monopoly they force other companies to GO OUT OF BUSINESS, u know what that means? LESS JOBS "u dolt." You see, they're forcing people to use only theirs programs in their new systems, and with the new direct x being only compatible with ms OS, anything not using it suffers financially so people go out of business.

ah copying my trend.. i had suspsected you were a trend follower.

businesses will only go out of business if they refuse to support an MS os. but with longhorn coming out in the future, they are promised increased security, which means more revenue for them. what idiot would NOT partner with MS for this sweet deal? you need to stop looking at this situation from a pirates persepective, and look at it from a companies perspective.

 

[Kadayi]

Originally posted by Lil' Timmy
while i personally think posey won b/c he called kadayi "son"

He 'OWNED' my ass good with that 'son', I feel kind of violated, like a nun at a carnival ;( . Think I can sue for emotional damages?:naughty:

 

[poseyjmac]

Originally posted by Lil' Timmy
while i personally think posey won b/c he called kadayi "son"
we have this little dilema:

and earlier i believe the phrase was "humans inherently are evil"? not only did you split your infinitive, but it certainly sounds like a contradiction. i mean if people are evil, why wouldn't MS be evil too? i think the onus may be on you now, 'son'.

MS isn't a person, its a company. and i never said companies were evil. sit down

 

[Neutrino]

Originally posted by poseyjmac
MS isn't a person, its a company. and i never said companies were evil. sit down

Oh, and what, in your all knowing wisdom, are companies made up of?