Half-Life 2 WILL be available on the 30th (or my mother's a "headcrab")

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"Vivendi CERTAINLY wouldn't let Valve release it on Steam come the 30th."

Why do you think they would lose money? It's not like all the money goes directly to Valve.
 
But my point is that Vivendi is a business and it's in the nature of big businesses to try and make as much money as they possibly can. So they're not going to sit around and say:
"Let's give those boys a head-start. They've worked hard. They deserve some money that we COULD get, but will get none of. We'll only lose a few thousand dollars."
Unfortunately, no big business is that altruistic.

64: Yes, Valve get everything from Steam purchases and Vivendi don't get a penny.
 
Well I guess we will just have to wait for further comfirmation from Valve about the release then if you are so hung about the money aspect.

If HL2 is not released via Steam, the next confident stand I have is that ATI will release HL2 before the retail version. Otherwise, I think it would be pretty ****ing stupid to pay millions for such a contract.
 
Originally posted by pHATE1982
Oh how naive you are.
All a cracker has to do is remove the steam checks. I'm betting it's as simple as cracking the .exe using a hex editor, and replacing a few essential files.
Do you realise how popular this game is?
Do you realise how talented crackers are?
Anything a developer can think of will take a top notch a couple of days max to match!
I reckon if it was released on steam there would be about 50 cracker groups all racing to do it first... because if they did they would become truley 1337
Click to expand...

Which would happen in retail too... But only for single player. How is this a problem? It's better security than any other game has, even tho yes it will get cracked. But you still need Steam to play multiplayer, just like basically every other multiplayer PC game. HL2 is based around multiplayer. Valve knows the power of multiplayer, look at CS.
 
Originally posted by pHATE1982
Oh how naive you are.
All a cracker has to do is remove the steam checks. I'm betting it's as simple as cracking the .exe using a hex editor, and replacing a few essential files.
Do you realise how popular this game is?
Do you realise how talented crackers are?
Anything a developer can think of will take a top notch a couple of days max to match!
I reckon if it was released on steam there would be about 50 cracker groups all racing to do it first... because if they did they would become truley 1337
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm sure it's going to be so simple as using a hex editor on a CD and replacing files. Getting HL2 off of Steam w/o paying for it will be impossible. If it is sent to you any, via encrypted files, then decypting those files isn't going to happen - I dont' give a damn how talented those script kiddie wanne be crackers are. You'd need one helluva a computer or farm to decrypt it. Sure, it could be done, but it'd take a long while.

Can't argue on your 1337 cracker groups though - they're pathetic though. As I said, ripping a game off a CD and putting it on IRC for download is entirely different then decrypting a seriously encrypting set of files w/o a key.
 
"Please! Taking a game off of a CD (an iso) and putting it into a serious of .rar files for easier downloading and then producing a crack is nothing compared to decrypting highly encrypted files that HL2 would be in. As I said, it's not like in the movies and it would take years for a super computer to crack it without the key. It's not something script kiddies would do over night like they usually do."

As i said before this encryption will only be around until it has finished downloading and installs . You can't have an encrypted game installed otherwise your computer would never recognise it... it will become unencrypted as soon as you play it. And if this isn't the case then 50% of your CPU is gonna be used up decrypting each file as the game needs it... which is unlikely
 
Originally posted by BlazeKun
Which would happen in retail too... But only for single player. How is this a problem? It's better security than any other game has, even tho yes it will get cracked. But you still need Steam to play multiplayer, just like basically every other multiplayer PC game. HL2 is based around multiplayer. Valve knows the power of multiplayer, look at CS.
Click to expand...

Exactly, even if they could get the game out of the encrypted files or off of steam or a friend even , they could only play Singleplayer - which isn't bad if you ask me :p

If they want multiplayer they'd have to buy their own copy.
 
All I want right now is confirmation from Gabe announcing that both the retail and Steam releases of HL2 are delayed and I'll glady admit defeat and lock this thread.
 
Originally posted by BlazeKun
Which would happen in retail too... But only for single player. How is this a problem? It's better security than any other game has, even tho yes it will get cracked. But you still need Steam to play multiplayer, just like basically every other multiplayer PC game. HL2 is based around multiplayer. Valve knows the power of multiplayer, look at CS.
Click to expand...


ever heard of cracked servers?
 
As i said before this encryption will only be around until it has finished downloading and installs . You can't have an encrypted game installed otherwise your computer would never recognise it... it will become unencrypted as soon as you play it. And if this isn't the case then 50% of your CPU is gonna be used up decrypting each file as the game needs it... which is unlikely
Click to expand...

Right, so after you decrypt it you can freely give it away like you have the retail CD, right? Okay, free singleplayer. Still no multiplayer though. It's almost just like HL1.[
 
well, if Valve decides to only release it via steam on the 30th, and if there are gonna be illegal versions floating on the net, what will you do?
 
Cracked servers? Yeah, but I thought Steam was going to be HL2's in-game browser. I think cracked servers will not be highly popular or publicized because they would be quickly shut down.
 
Originally posted by ilove64
All I want right now is confirmation from Gabe announcing that both the retail and Steam releases of HL2 are delayed and I'll glady admit defeat and lock this thread.
Click to expand...

same
 
Originally posted by Ares
Yeah, I'm sure it's going to be so simple as using a hex editor on a CD and replacing files. Getting HL2 off of Steam w/o paying for it will be impossible. If it is sent to you any, via encrypted files, then decypting those files isn't going to happen - I dont' give a damn how talented those script kiddie wanne be crackers are. You'd need one helluva a computer or farm to decrypt it. Sure, it could be done, but it'd take a long while.

Can't argue on your 1337 cracker groups though - they're pathetic though. As I said, ripping a game off a CD and putting it on IRC for download is entirely different then decrypting a seriously encrypting set of files w/o a key.
Click to expand...


What i was saying was that one person would download it, have an official key... decrypt it using the official key and THEN crack it.
 
Like whats-it-called , Evil-Net for Warcraft 3 instead of Battle.Net
Or some other name, forgot what it was. Evil something.
I used to play on that until I got WC3.
 
Originally posted by Ares
Yeah, I'm sure it's going <snip> different then decrypting a seriously encrypting set of files w/o a key.
Click to expand...

Trying to download HL2 from steam w/o paying isn't what they'll do (i don't think). They'll each download it (or 1 per group or something). Then try to bypass the authorization checks. They wouldn't try to decrypt the files by themselves. Why do that when valve have a decryption program. All they need to do is trick it into decrypting something when they didn't pay/download have a CD-Key.


Also re. SP only cracks. It's possible to do MP cracks as well, look at battle.net games. (true steam's protection is better, however all they need is time)
 
Originally posted by ilove64
Well I guess we will just have to wait for further comfirmation from Valve about the release then if you are so hung about the money aspect.
Click to expand...
I promise you, I'm not pulling this out of my arse. Valve used none of Vivendi's money to make this game, and therefore if they don't use any of Vivendi's resources to distribute it then Valve owe them nothing. Therefore, no money for Vivendi. Which is precisely why Vivendi would not allow a release on Steam first.
 
a very large number of customers never go online. to you, that is a foreign concept. to vivendi and developers like valve, its market reality.

you could sell hl2 via steam exclusively for 1-2 months and there is a fair chance it will never be sold to more than 5% (tops) of all the hl2 buyers this year. i know thats difficult to grasp, but its entirely probable.

this is why vivendi would be a bit funny, but not entirely opposed to, steam release first. it may bite into some of their sales, and the agreement they have with valve would intend to minimize those sales. they are playing it safe to a degree, and sure selling games directly online may not worry them now, but it might worry them down the road.
 
Phate: Then you have the same scenario has one person having the retail CD and buring it for friends or cracking it on the net.

It's still the same. Yep. Nothings changed, has it? hehe.

Getting free copies off of Steam isn't going to happen though... and even Multiplayer isn't going to happen then. Unless you have them mentioned cracked servers hehe.
 
Originally posted by pHATE1982
ever heard of cracked servers?
Click to expand...

ever heard of troll?

If this were such an end all topic, why isn't there cracked servers for... Basically every other game in existence? It's simple really. They'd probobly spend more time and money making those cracked servers than it would cost to just buy a copy of the game.
 
i'm pretty sure valve made hl2 with their own money, not vivendi's. this is how they are able to do a steam first release. if they were a completely controlled developer by the publisher, it would not even be possible.
 
Originally posted by SLH
Trying to download HL2 from steam w/o paying isn't what they'll do (i don't think). They'll each download it (or 1 per group or something). Then try to bypass the authorization checks. They wouldn't try to decrypt the files by themselves. Why do that when valve have a decryption program. All they need to do is trick it into decrypting something when they didn't pay/download have a CD-Key.


Also re. SP only cracks. It's possible to do MP cracks as well, look at battle.net games. (true steam's protection is better, however all they need is time)
Click to expand...

Then we are all in agreement (me and you guys) :) .
 
Originally posted by BlazeKun
ever heard of troll?

If this were such an end all topic, why isn't there cracked servers for... Basically every other game in existence? It's simple really. They'd probobly spend more time and money making those cracked servers than it would cost to just buy a copy of the game.
Click to expand...


ROFLMAO

there are cracked servers for pretty much every online game
 
Nothing is impossible people. HL2 is not going to make the 9/30, right??
 
Don't you think that HL2's lasting appeal will be in MP? I am sure there will be some new security plan which prevents other people to play online if they have an illegal copy. In fact, I don't think Valve should sweat that much over people who do download HL illegaly just for the SP experience. Within a year the game's WOW factor will be reduced and will 90% rely on the MP feature just as HL has done, overall eliminating piracy.
 
In fact, from the time I have owned HL, it hasn't been a controversial issue of being hacked. Obviously Valve has made tons of moolah from the expansion and mods they sell at retail stores. Why? Casual consumers.



****FOLLOW UP*****

Based upon the Pushed Back thread, which has spawned an amazing 1000 replies, see how many people are really pissed off that this delay was announced so soon? I really doubt Valve will leave us hanging.
 
Originally posted by pHATE1982
ROFLMAO

there are cracked servers for pretty much every online game
Click to expand...

Maybe so... but what you don't realize is that HL is based around a single server, with other servers built on top of it. The crackers themselves would have to pay for the base cracked server, and then everyone else who would want to make a server for their cracked central server would have to pay their own share of money for their game servers. Either that or you have really shitty servers that nobody wants to play on anyways.
 
Originally posted by ilove64
Don't you think that HL2's lasting appeal will be in MP? I am sure there will be some new security plan which prevents other people to play online if they have an illegal copy. In fact, I don't think Valve should sweat that much over people who do download HL illegaly just for the SP experience. Within a year the game's WOW factor will be reduced and will 90% rely on the MP feature just as HL has done, overall eliminating piracy.
Click to expand...

I can't give out the web site but lets just say it has the words r*sistance and ch**ts in it. On there you will find hacks to play CS and other HL mods online. It isn't widley used because there isn't a big demand. But something similar will be released for HL2 at some point... and fair enough their may not be a big demand. But believe me that demand will arise if they release it on steam first!
 
Well like I said before, I am sure Valve is aware of this. If a common user such as yourself knows this, Valve, after planning this game for 5 years, has known about the potential of piracy. That is why I just firmly believe that Valve must be confident in releasing HL2 over Steam, I don't think they would be so naive.
 
Originally posted by BlazeKun
Maybe so... but what you don't realize is that HL is based around a single server, with other servers built on top of it. The crackers themselves would have to pay for the base cracked server, and then everyone else who would want to make a server for their cracked central server would have to pay their own share of money for their game servers. Either that or you have really shitty servers that nobody wants to play on anyways.
Click to expand...


You'd be amazed at the amount of crackers sitting on a T3 connection willing to set up cracked servers. These servers are usually based in countries such as Thailand which don't allow anybody to look onto the servers or get owners/renter information. The quantity is pretty much phenominal...
 
Originally posted by ilove64
Well like I said before, I am sure Valve is aware of this. If a common user such as yourself knows this, Valve, after planning this game for 5 years, has known about the potential of piracy. That is why I just firmly believe that Valve must be confident in releasing HL2 over Steam, I don't think they would be so naive.
Click to expand...



No single game has ever been safe from crackers. It's not about to start now... Though i may be wrong if Valve have actually spent four and half years designing a new anit-piracy system, and only six months on the game. In that case i'll give the crackers a week :-P

Hell if this is the case ever likely it's being delayed! lol
 
Originally posted by pHATE1982
You'd be amazed at the amount of crackers sitting on a T3 connection willing to set up cracked servers. These servers are usually based in countries such as Thailand which don't allow anybody to look onto the servers or get owners/renter information. The quantity is pretty much phenominal...
Click to expand...

The major user base isn't in Thailand... and I know I sure as hell wouldn't want to try to play with 500ms Thailand pings.

Goddammit why am I even arguing about it? It's not like it makes much of a difference... What does Valve care if they crack it now or 2 months from now, it'll get cracked either way.
 
Places like Thailand and Eastern countries have always been the big boys of piracy, I don't doubt you about the popularity of it over there.

But anwyas, this has gotten way off tangent. Really, I think we should assume that Valve for the past years has probably trying to devise some scheme to prevent wide-appeal piracy as possible. I do believe they know it is inevitable, but I think they still gots the cajones to release the game on the 30th to prove they are still loyal to their fans.
 
Originally posted by el Chi
I promise you, I'm not pulling this out of my arse. Valve used none of Vivendi's money to make this game, and therefore if they don't use any of Vivendi's resources to distribute it then Valve owe them nothing. Therefore, no money for Vivendi. Which is precisely why Vivendi would not allow a release on Steam first.
Click to expand...

If Valve used their money to make the game, why wouldn't they be able to dictate the terms of the contract with Vivendi? Perhaps the contract all along was that they'd have a three month period where they would sell exclusively over Steam? This might've been a gamble for Vivendi, but with HL2 being such an anticipated game, they're going to make a lot of money even without those sales. As somebody else said, it's only going to be the fans who download from Steam, since there hasn't been much marketing around it.

Anyway, I'm reasonably confident there'll be some sort of release on the 30th, I'm definitely sceptical of this email, and I'm going to be waiting impatiently for the next week to find out what happens, heh.

Good arguments IloveN64, by the way, good to see there are still people who have hope. Like you, I'll be waiting on more trusted sources before I believe there has been such a delay. If there is any delay, I can't believe it'll be for three months as has been suggested.
 
I still say you put too much faith in these crackers. Everyone's heard the potential of crackers around the world and most of it's 'hollywood'. It's cool to talk about how crackers can do 'this' or 'that'.
 
Originally posted by BlazeKun
The major user base isn't in Thailand... and I know I sure as hell wouldn't want to try to play with 500ms Thailand pings.

Goddammit why am I even arguing about it? It's not like it makes much of a difference... What does Valve care if they crack it now or 2 months from now, it'll get cracked either way.
Click to expand...


my boo boo... i just mentioned Thailand cause i saw there was an issue aboout them doing this... but still it happens elsewhere


And Valve care if it gets cracked now because if it isn't available on retail... which i would guess would count for over 90% of the sales. Not all those 90% of buyers are gonna suddenly go over to steam. Alot will get cracked versions...

Plus Vivendi would be pissed if it's steam only...as someone else said ealier. Valve would surely be in breach of some contract. So it's never gonna happen....

Wait for steam, wait for retail.
 
Thanks bslinger, I never been skeptical from the start. I don't really call it optimism, it's just one of those things where I feel Valve would be too arrogant to decide to delay the entire release within a week of its official date.

There is one thing I like to add:

Didn't you think Doug was being quite an ass when he was poking fun by saying September 23 will be a day of infamy, the day Half-Life 2 was delayed. It was as he was being light-hearted and humorous about the subject, like it wasn't a big deal or anything.
 
64 that could be cause he's played hl2 to death already and is sick of it =)
 
"Plus Vivendi would be pissed if it's steam only...as someone else said ealier. Valve would surely be in breach of some contract. So it's never gonna happen...."

I am playing the Devil's advocate here for a moment -- could there be some temporary contract where a percentage of the money earned by Steam through September 30 to the retail date would go to Vivendi and from there on out all the money Steam earns Valve gets? I'd say that would be reasonable and a true doctrine of Valve's dedication to fans.
 
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