Iraq, the US & other stuff too

[Tr0n]

Originally posted by Alzxul
Well I thought I should say something to try and keep on topic... since I thought this thread was all about the US and so forth

Yea the topic was about Iraq, the US & other stuff.Now were talking about other stuff which currently is about Irael.

 

[Kadayi]

Originally posted by Tr0n
Only reason why i'm quoting you on this part is because of that ww3 thing.So you to believe in that revaltions thing in the bible to???

I'm not particularly a strong believer in the notion of predetermination, so I can't say that I subcribe to the idea of the end of the world as outlined in revelations. Sharon justs seems mad enough to go all the way with a nuke if he thought he could get away with it.

 

[Tr0n]

Nah he wouldn't use a nuke....Like you said before since the US is envolved we would not allow him to use a nuke.But the revelations thing is kinda freaky.It talks about russia, arabs, and the aryan race(germany) one day attacking Israel(and her allies) and after that the Prince of peace comes.More than likely not jesus but a person who claims peace through out the world and all the countries unite under him(may or may not mean a one world goverment).I had a christian magazine that my grandma gets in the mail that talke about the US and Germany going against each and Beast(leader of germany?) attacks Israel.On the front of the mag it had 2 eagle.The bald eagle and a brownish looknig one that Germany uses.

 

[ComradeBadger]

I do think that the Jewish people deserve a nation of their own, after all they have been through, and I also agree that the petty, tribal nature of the Middle East will mean that they will have to work hard to overcome differences and make peace, which I think is what we all want here... theres also the Kurdish problem...

 

[crabcakes66]

Originally posted by Tr0n
Tell me how do I "represent" what is wrong with are country???Please tell me.

Alright. Dont get me wrong I agree with most of what you have been saying over the past few pages....


Its called arrogance.

Just becuase we have the power does that mean we should abuse it?

Anyone who doubts just how powerful as a nation we are is an idiot.

I agree with removing saddam from power. All these people that compare bush to saddam need to pull there heads out of there asses.


....although i dont agree with the reasons we invaded iraq. Our president did lie.....and now he is personally trying to reap the benefits of a nations suffering by making some sweet business deals.

....and meanwhile things are not exactly peachy here at home......

Bush's foreighn poilicy downright sucks......he doesnt care who he pisses off.....his attitude is the same as yours.......


The whole worlds looks up(or down) at us....... they criticise every move we make.....and as long as we are more powerful than they are, they will continue to do so.

Shouldnt we atleast try to LISTEN to what they say? And not just brush them aside.

 

[Element Alpha]

So, this discussion really kept going I see. This went non-stop for 24 hours...

About Israel, I think they deserve a nation. And even tho Sharon is some kind of "Judge Dredd", I can understand why they won't back up whatsoever. They have been persecuted throughout the entire known history(Egyptians, Romans, Spain(inquisition), Arabs, Nazi's, and I'm forgetting some. I remember having to read a book in class about how a jewish family had to flee every generation or so, constantly living in the prospect of fear and butchery. So you have to keep this in mind, they really want to be able to be at "home".

Furthermore, I think we covered that "arrogance" thing pretty well, I think from page 6 or 7 till 9.

Lastly, I'd like to steer the conversation in something else than war.
I'd like to talk about:

1)Guns
I'm talking about the gun laws in the US (think of Bowling for Columbine). Isn't it somewhat dangerous to have guns available like that? Sometimes, I can imagine a nation of millions of people, all armed to the teeth, just like a terrorist country in war would be. Just picture every US gun owner with a tulban around it's head to see what I'm saying.

2)Education
Here, I think of the overcrowded underfunded schools. I don't understand how a country can volunteraly neglect to educate it's children properly, especialy when we're talking about such a rich and powerfull country. I feel there's some "educate the rich, neglect the less fortunate" thing going on. Like it was part of some opression skeem. Is this true? Or is it just some stereotype? Are your teachers well paid(etc...)?

 

[ComradeBadger]

Originally posted by Element Alpha
So, this discussion really kept going I see. This went non-stop for 24 hours...

About Israel, I think they deserve a nation. And even tho Sharon is some kind of "Judge Dredd", I can understand why they won't back up whatsoever. They have been persecuted throughout the entire known history(Egyptians, Romans, Spain(inquisition), Arabs, Nazi's, and I'm forgetting some. I remember having to read a book in class about how a jewish family had to flee every generation or so, constantly living in the prospect of fear and butchery. So you have to keep this in mind, they really want to be able to be at "home".

Yep, exactly, they need a homeland, but is the middle east the right place? (I didn't expect this thread to stay alive/unflamey overnight )

 

[Element Alpha]

Yep, exactly, they need a homeland, but is the middle east the right place? (I didn't expect this thread to stay alive/unflamey overnight)

Well, I guess there's not much choice there. About 60 years ago, right after WW2, it was decided by the leading countries that jews would receive a piece of the desert that was owned by them at the time.
Since then, they have built this desert to a resourcefull place, with infrastructure, fertelized land, and whatnot. I've been to Tel-aviv about 8 years ago, and I remember how nice everything was. The people are really involved in building their country, something most other countries on that continent lack completely, this "will to evolve and create". There's no arguing about this. I don't think the location can be changed, since far to much work has been put into this land already. And this land has become part of their pride, aka "they built the desert in a hospitable place". I think what you'll hear most coming out of an israelians mouth is "This place was a desert for more than a thousand years, and now that we changed that, and built our houses, offices, roads, parks, schools, they wan't to take it back from us? Noway. Never."
Personally, I don't blame them, because this is very true, and for me, it is the essence of the issue.

Also: I'm glad this thread didn't turn into flames. This is what I like about the internet. There are no boundaries, but the imaginary ones. The internet will have a bigger impact I think, than most forsee. You can already see it here, when people from all over the world discuss issues as delicate as these, and succeed in staying respectful towards each other. "A small step for man, a giant step for my bits heading your way over this fiberoptic highway"

Greetz everyone, and thank you.
[EDIT]typos & internet bit

 

[ComradeBadger]

Yeah, I know that we can't do anything about it now... and they have been incredible in building a country in 50-odd years, a country that has done some amazing things...

I'm agreeing with you here

 

[crabcakes66]

Originally posted by Element Alpha

1)Guns
I'm talking about the gun laws in the US (think of Bowling for Columbine). Isn't it somewhat dangerous to have guns available like that? Sometimes, I can imagine a nation of millions of people, all armed to the teeth, just like a terrorist country in war would be. Just picture every US gun owner with a tulban around it's head to see what I'm saying.

2)Education
Here, I think of the overcrowded underfunded schools. I don't understand how a country can volunteraly neglect to educate it's children properly, especialy when we're talking about such a rich and powerfull country. I feel there's some "educate the rich, neglect the less fortunate" thing going on. Like it was part of some opression skeem. Is this true? Or is it just some stereotype? Are your teachers well paid(etc...)?

Blame republicans......those are both there ideals......

 

[Echelon]

Originally posted by Tr0n
ecause there is bigger problems out there than here.Whats worse....some terrorist with a nuke thats pissed off at america or some guy here in america having to pay a couple more dollars on tax???

did anyone consider not to pay the money to "prevent" some terrorists from using nukes but to find out, why they are so pissed that they wan't to use nukes? they also have a reason to things like that. no matter whether they're good or bad (the reasons )

Originally posted by crabcakes66
Blame republicans......those are both there ideals......

keep the majority of ppl uneducated in order to keep their power? might work, or already does work. the gvt. already made some laws, taking away some of the us citizen's rights (privacy etc.) , which' s content was only made "half-public", only half of the content was published. and the majority didn't know/realize it. if you don't know about your rights you won't complain when they're taken away :-/. "the conspiracy - part" of my mind is already afraid of the us becoming a gvt. controled country, where the citizens have only a few rights. only for "controlling terrorists" and so on.

same for germany, when i go out and as em: "do you know the first $ of the consitution?" .."no idea".. same for the question what the constitution contains at all.

 

[crabcakes66]

Tr0n ovbiously doesnt pay taxes yet.

 

[Brian Damage]

I couldn't stand to trawl through this stuff any longer, so I'm just going to air a couple of my opinions and bog off for a while to another thread...

1. I really wish that the US government would release the one or two Aussie prisoners at camp X-ray to the Aussie legal system. They are Aussies, after all. We should be allowed to deal with them.

2. I do think that the nukes dropped upon Japan could have been dropped in a less populated area.

3. I'd like to point out that G. Bush snr is a member of a large concern called the Carlyle Group. They are currently interested, and have been since before 9/11, in putting an oil pipeline right through to the Red Sea oil reserve. One of the few things standing in their way was the hostile Afganistan government. I believe another was Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq.

4. Bush is a complete and utter moron, is illegaly elected, and is merely Dick Cheney's puppet.

5. Australia is nowhere near perfect, I'll admit that readily, but it has taken a slide downwards with J. Howard's butt-kissing to Bush and the US. The Aussie people don't like that. Come the next election, ol' Johnny Jackboot is out on his arse. Who'd want a chimp lookalike for a PM, anyway?

6. I don't hate Americans in general, however I do find that America in general seems rather ignorant about other countries, preferring to think of them in terms of stereotypes. Many, many Americans have raised stupidity and narrowmindedness to a kind of art, but many others are also some of the smartest people in the world. What I do loathe, is the corrupted American government.

7. Nice people, sensible, intelligent people don't flame or attack other people in a good debate .

Now, please don't hate me...:E

 

[GhostValkyrie]

Originally posted by Alzxul
The Jews didn't 'get' Israel in the 'bible thing' . They received it in when Britain and France decided to give away the land they owned in that area in the middle east. In fact when it was being split up the Jews even said they would share with the Palestinians, however the Palestinians said they wanted either all or nothing.

Actually; God promised them that land, in the Bible. However; him physically taking it, and giving it, is another thing.

 

[DimitriPopov]

Originally posted by Brian Damage

2. I do think that the nukes dropped upon Japan could have been dropped in a less populated area.

---This would have convinced the hardline emporor based government of nothing.

3. I'd like to point out that G. Bush snr is a member of a large concern called the Carlyle Group. They are currently interested, and have been since before 9/11, in putting an oil pipeline right through to the Red Sea oil reserve. One of the few things standing in their way was the hostile Afganistan government. I believe another was Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq.

---Ignorant conspiracy talk , youre think WAY too much. I bet they r planned teh 9/11 dood!! (sheesh , stop watching xfiles)

4. Bush is a complete and utter moron, is illegaly elected, and is merely Dick Cheney's puppet.

---Ignorant bandwagon talk lol. Seriously grow up , he won the election vie electoral college which has happened several times in history.



6. I don't hate Americans in general, however I do find that America in general seems rather ignorant about other countries, preferring to think of them in terms of stereotypes. Many, many Americans have raised stupidity and narrowmindedness to a kind of art, but many others are also some of the smartest people in the world. What I do loathe, is the corrupted American government.

---I believe you seem rather ignorant about other countries , so I guess we are even

7. Nice people, sensible, intelligent people don't flame or attack other people in a good debate .

Now, please don't hate me...:E

 

[Brian Damage]

Riiiiiiiiiight DP, a great big ball of fire that leaves things levelled for three or four miles wouldn't convince anyone of anything:E.

No one can think too much, I don't think they planned 9/11 (won't tell you what I do think, for fear of starting a flame war), and I last watched X-Files 3 years ago. Some conspiracies actually exist. Curious, eh?

Look more closely, mate, the election was fixed.

I'm not ignorant, I love to study other countries as a passtime. I do, like many others, base my opinion of America upon the face it presents to the rest of the world.

Seeya.:E

 

[DimitriPopov]

Originally posted by Brian Damage
Riiiiiiiiiight DP, a great big ball of fire that leaves things levelled for three or four miles wouldn't convince anyone of anything:E.

No one can think too much, I don't think they planned 9/11 (won't tell you what I do think, for fear of starting a flame war), and I last watched X-Files 3 years ago. Some conspiracies actually exist. Curious, eh?

Look more closely, mate, the election was fixed.

I'm not ignorant, I love to study other countries as a passtime. I do, like many others, base my opinion of America upon the face it presents to the rest of the world.

Seeya.:E

It did take TWO cities being leveled for the Japaneese Govt to start considering anything and even then the hardliners attempted a coup to stop the peace process.

The election was nowhere near fixed , maybe in 2004 people will stop their needless whining over it. (I hope President GWB doenst get re-elected just because im sick of hearing peopel cry about it)

btw- We both know its not personal

 

[Kadayi]

Being gods 'chosen' people has brought nothing but grief to the jewish people throughout history, because it is a religion based not so much on belief but on Race and bloodlines. No matter how good a person you are, how charitable, or well meaning in your actions, unless you are Jewish or have married into the jewish faith, in the eyes of Jehovah (and the jewish faith) you are effectively worthless.

 

[Brian Damage]

Yeah, it's not personal DP.

Y'know, I think the best way to regard an online debate is to think of it as a place for people to air their opinions. Most aren't going to walk away from their computers thinking anything different, as we all have preconcieved notions. For some, though, something might stick.

You can't usually convince someone in one go, but you can give them a nudge.

Oh, and I reckon the second city was being leveled while they were still trying to figure out what the heck happened to the first.

And I still reckon the election was fixed. The evidence adds up.

 

[Tr0n]

Originally posted by crabcakes66
Tr0n ovbiously doesnt pay taxes yet.

I will soon once I get my own DSL. But I know that a few dollars don't matter....I live in a poor house so I would know this.

 

[CokeLite]

Originally posted by Sn7
Ah yes, the rewards of having a republican president.


Their philosophy: "Tax the poor, help the rich" (Because we all know how much the rich suffer in their every day lives.)

What you don't know is who is classified as living in poverty. Out of those 35 million people most of them (dont remember the actual percentage but upwards of about 95 %) have a place to live. Also the majority of those that are "living in poverty" have air-conditioning, TV, and a vehicle. If this is true I must be living in poverty also!

Just like all the other Anti-American, Liberal B***Shi* this statistic looks bad at first but is easily disproven with a little bit of in-depth analysis. That is why I feel that the average liberal is a stupid zealot because they believe these lies BLINDLY.

The Kennedys, Clintons, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Etc. almost always aim their attacks at Republicans and Conservatives using statements that play on a person's emotions. They do this because its the only way to make their garbage seem presentable and not self-serving and because most of the time it is either untrue or blown out of porportion. And the biggest kicker of all this is that it is immediately printed on all the major papers and major news stations as fact when it really isn't because the media is just as liberal.

Take this for example. In our area we recieve a newspaper called the Star Banner. During the beginning of the war if this paper was the only source of news you relied on you would think that were were losing the war because the bad news is always on the first page while the good news is buried in the back somewhere. Now lets look at the reader opinions section. 95 % of the opinions are from knee-jerk liberals spewing their emotional crap. The funny thing is that everyone I know in this town is conservative, and also the majority of people in this town are registered Republicans, yet you look in this paper you would think you were in California.

More to come......

(and no, I'm not a member of the Young Republicans)

 

[CokeLite]

Delete plz dbl-post

 

[CokeLite]

Bowling for Columbine is a perfect example of Liberal Spin that plays on a person's emotions. It all sounds nice and good until you look into it a little more and find that the whole thing holds about as much water as a cup made out of wire-mesh.

"OMFG THE U.S HAS MORE MURDERS THEN ALL THESE OTHER COUNTRIES!!! IT MUST BE BECAUSE OF GUNS !!!!!"

^That was basically the whole theme behind "Bowling for Columbine". The funny thing is that the U.S has much more people then these other countries. Liberal Spin at its finest.

I am a member of the NRA and the proud owner of 36 guns, yet I have had no accidents with these guns, know why? Because my parents did a good job of teaching me about guns and gun safety. You see the problem is not the guns, its the unsafe and irresponsable people that get ahold of them. I feel that if you want to own a gun you should have to go through a gun safety course to get one. Just because you are 18/21 doesent mean you are mature and responsable enough to own a gun.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

Originally posted by Kadayi Polokov
Being gods 'chosen' people has brought nothing but grief to the jewish people throughout history, because it is a religion based not so much on belief but on Race and bloodlines. No matter how good a person you are, how charitable, or well meaning in your actions, unless you are Jewish or have married into the jewish faith, in the eyes of Jehovah (and the jewish faith) you are effectively worthless.

I don't know enough about the Jewish faith to say ''this and that.''
I can say that from what I can tell, you're right. My religion states all human beings are God's children, and that he loves all of us.

 

[Tr0n]

My religon states.....well hell...I don't have a religon.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

Originally posted by CokeLite
Bowling for Columbine is a perfect example of Liberal Spin that plays on a person's emotions. It all sounds nice and good until you look into it a little more and find that the whole thing holds about as much water as a cup made out of wire-mesh.

"OMFG THE U.S HAS MORE MURDERS THEN ALL THESE OTHER COUNTRIES!!! IT MUST BE BECAUSE OF GUNS !!!!!"

^That was basically the whole theme behind "Bowling for Columbine". The funny thing is that the U.S has much more people then these other countries. Liberal Spin at its finest.

I am a member of the NRA and the proud owner of 36 guns, yet I have had no accidents with these guns, know why? Because my parents did a good job of teaching me about guns and gun safety. You see the problem is not the guns, its the unsafe and irresponsable people that get ahold of them. I feel that if you want to own a gun you should have to go through a gun safety course to get one. Just because you are 18/21 doesent mean you are mature and responsable enough to own a gun.

/me claps hands enthusiastically. I've never actually seen Bowling For Columbine, but I've seen previews. From what I can tell; It blames as many problems as possible, on guns.

BTW: I've owned 3 guns for the past few years, without incident. And the reason is the same as yours; My parents taught me well.

 

[OCybrManO]

To CokeLite:

Yes, countries have varying amounts of people... that's why you look at the per capita data.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_cap
I own quite a few weapons... but if giving them up and ridding the world of weapons would mean there would be no more shootings, bank robberies, etc. I would do it in a heartbeat.
I agree that proper parental guidance is the major key to stopping violence... but guns don't help.
Some people will always be violent and if they have access to guns they can do much more damage than if they did not have access to them.



The statement that republicans significantly favor rich people is true.
Republicans are typically rich... and, like most politicians, they try to help their own people first and the rest will possibly be helped if it doesn't hurt their own people too much.

The people that control the media also happen to be rich (and thus, tend to have republican views), so saying that democrats control the media is ludicrous... unless, of course you limit the meaning of "the media" to several of the less popular media outlets as you seem to have done to distort the proportion of "liberal bullshit" in the media.
Indepentant studies of the media as a whole (TV, radio, print, etc) show time and time again that there is much more of a conservative slant in the media.
I'm not saying that there is no liberal slant in any media outlets... but that what exists is vastly outweighed by the amount of conservative slant put out by major news stations like FOX.
I hate FOX mainly because they call their reporting "fair and balanced" and constantly use the phrase "we report, you decide" in a rather successful attempt to hide their bias (go to random people and ask if FOX news is biased and if so to which side, then watch FOX and count the number of times they bash liberals and praise conservatives... compare the results).



... but what I like the most is that, in one post, you both bash liberals for putting a spin on the data and you try to put your own spin on the data by saying "that depends on what you mean by poor."

Bush clearly stated several times that by far the vast majority (a conservative estimate of what that means would be 80%) of the tax cuts would go to the people in the lower half of the economic spectrum... while, in reality, it was less than 14%.
Notice that he said the lower half instead of "poor".
This gives us an exact figure... so, no interpretation of the definition of "poverty" is necessary.

 

[pat_thetic]

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html Long read but it basically takes apart his movie and shows it as a fraud.

EDIT: And the gun control debate is utter crap. If someone wanted a gun, they could get a gun... And if they wanted to kill someone they could use many ways.

 

[Tr0n]

Originally posted by pat_thetic
http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html Long read but it basically takes apart his movie and shows it as a fraud.

EDIT: And the gun control debate is utter crap. If someone wanted a gun, they could get a gun... And if they wanted to kill someone they could use many ways.

Best thing I heard you say in a long time.

 

[CokeLite]

Originally posted by OCybrManO
To CokeLite:

Yes, countries have varying amounts of people... that's why you look at the per capita data.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_cap
I own quite a few weapons... but if giving them up and ridding the world of weapons would mean there would be no more shootings, bank robberies, etc. I would do it in a heartbeat.
I agree that proper parental guidance is the major key to stopping violence... but guns don't help.
Some people will always be violent and if they have access to guns they can do much more damage than if they did not have access to them.



The statement that republicans significantly favor rich people is true.
Republicans are typically rich... and, like most politicians, they try to help their own people first and the rest will possibly be helped if it doesn't hurt their own people too much.

The people that control the media also happen to be rich (and thus, tend to have republican views), so saying that democrats control the media is ludicrous... unless, of course you limit the meaning of "the media" to several of the less popular media outlets as you seem to have done to distort the proportion of "liberal bullshit" in the media.
Indepentant studies of the media as a whole (TV, radio, print, etc) show time and time again that there is much more of a conservative slant in the media.
I'm not saying that there is no liberal slant in any media outlets... but that what exists is vastly outweighed by the amount of conservative slant put out by major news stations like FOX.
I hate FOX mainly because they call their reporting "fair and balanced" and constantly use the phrase "we report, you decide" in a rather successful attempt to hide their bias (go to random people and ask if FOX news is biased and if so to which side, then watch FOX and count the number of times they bash liberals and praise conservatives... compare the results).



... but what I like the most is that, in one post, you both bash liberals for putting a spin on the data and you try to put your own spin on the data by saying "that depends on what you mean by poor."

Bush clearly stated several times that by far the vast majority (a conservative estimate of what that means would be 80%) of the tax cuts would go to the people in the lower half of the economic spectrum... while, in reality, it was less than 14%.
Notice that he said the lower half instead of "poor".
This gives us an exact figure... so, no interpretation of the definition of "poverty" is necessary.

Good reply.

I hate FOX mainly because they call their reporting "fair and balanced" and constantly use the phrase "we report, you decide" in a rather successful attempt to hide their bias (go to random people and ask if FOX news is biased and if so to which side, then watch FOX and count the number of times they bash liberals and praise conservatives... compare the results).

I could basically say the same thing about CNN or CBS. Hell, I remember when CBS refused to even report that Gary Condit was a potential suspect in the Sandra Levy case for quite some time.

I own quite a few weapons... but if giving them up and ridding the world of weapons would mean there would be no more shootings, bank robberies, etc. I would do it in a heartbeat.
I agree that proper parental guidance is the major key to stopping violence... but guns don't help.
Some people will always be violent and if they have access to guns they can do much more damage than if they did not have access to them.

The problem is that there would still be bank robberies and shootings.... mabye even more. The problem with taking guns away is that the people like me and you that are responsable and legal will get them taken away but the ones that have them illegaly wont because they are not registered. Now if I was a criminal and I knew for a fact that I could break in a house and not get shot at because guns are illegal what is stopping me? If anything gun control would increase crimes because then there is nothing to deter me from breaking in a house. Hell, we cant even keep people from getting ahold of illegal drugs, WTF do you think would cause guns to be different??

The statement that republicans significantly favor rich people is true.
Republicans are typically rich... and, like most politicians, they try to help their own people first and the rest will possibly be helped if it doesn't hurt their own people too much.

The same can be said about democrats. If I remember correctly Clinton did give out quite a few pardons to people that just happen to be the biggest contributers to the democratic party just before leaving office.

... but what I like the most is that, in one post, you both bash liberals for putting a spin on the data and you try to put your own spin on the data by saying "that depends on what you mean by poor."

I didnt say poor I said living in poverty. If you think that someone who has TV, a car, and AC is living in poverty then you are reading this post by someone living in poverty.

BTW Rich people get more back because they get more taken away from them.

 

[OCybrManO]

By getting rid of all the weapons I was talking about a perfect-world scenario where we could somehow get rid of all weapons... but I know it's not going to happen.

... and, umm... poverty is "the state of being poor"

 

[CokeLite]

I said living in poverty, not bieng poor. Someone can be poor yet not be living in poverty.

In other words a poor person doesent automatically live in poor conditions. An example is that my Uncle is very poor but is living with his rich brother.

 

[OCybrManO]

What confused me was when you said "If you think that someone who has TV, a car, and AC is living in poverty..."
I thought you meant that the person owns those things, not just has access to them...

If that's what you mean, then everyone can escape "living in poverty" by using PC's at a library for Internet access, watching TV in a store, and using the AC in the frozen food section of the local supermarket.

 

[pat_thetic]

Originally posted by Tr0n
Best thing I heard you say in a long time.

Uh right....

 

[Tr0n]

Originally posted by pat_thetic
Uh right....

THANK YOU SIR MAY I HAVE ANOTHER!!!!

 

[crabcakes66]

Originally posted by CokeLite

The same can be said about democrats. If I remember correctly Clinton did give out quite a few pardons to people that just happen to be the biggest contributers to the democratic party just before leaving office.

Do you know of any non-white poor republicans? I bet you dont.


Not many average black people i know are republican.


Republican ideals are greedy and racists for the most part.....nothing but garbage from those who are in power and rich wanting to keep there power and money.....wich is fine in the business world, but should not be in government.

LETS TAX THE POOR MINORITIES FOR EVERY EXTRA PENNY THEY HAVE AND GIVE A TAX-BREAK TO THE RICH WHITE PEOPLE.

....yeah thats a nice attitude.



You can call me a liberal commie or whatever else you want, it doesnt change any facts ...im just as american as you are.

I like guns. I support our troops and military in general. Im white. Im not poor and never have been.

 

[Korgoth]

I agree with you crabcakes66, and why is it when a republican supporter gets confronted with these issues that we are talking about, they have to resort to calling us "liberal commies" instead of an actual retort to our facts that we present? Is the truth that hard to face? I'm not democratic, I guess you could consider me independant, but if I were to pick one side or the other I would pick democratic, and in 04' i'll vote democratic, I would like to see Bush unseated...
For the most part, I would consider myself under "mid class" Since Bush has been in office, my father lost his job, as did my mother, and myself... I've recently found new work, and so has my father, but the pay is now where close to what it was before, and we have no medical/dental etc. benefits.. My Father lost his job due to the company not being able to afford to pay him anymore, so yes I have a right to blame that on this administrations handling of the economy. Our current household income is probably one fourth of what it used to be, so if anyone wants to argue with me go ahead, but I have first hand knowledge of what is going on and yes times have changed..

 

[Kadayi]

Originally posted by Tr0n
My religon states.....well hell...I don't have a religon.

Your culture is your religion, whether you actively participate in worship or not, because through daily interaction the fundamental lessons of what is right or wrong become ingrained into you through from the day you are born. You may well take on further religious ideals later in life, but it is impossible to escape the religious ideals that have subconciously formed your character.

 

[Kadayi]

Bowling for Columbine is definitely flawed, however the inescapable truth is that there is no justification in the modern Westen world for Civilians to require Semi Automatic Rifles, Machine Pistols etc etc, especially within Cities (not much game hunting to be found there).

 

[Brian Damage]

I'd say competitive shooting would be okay, though.

Butting out now...