That shadow bug from the crane picture still isn't fixed...
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Ari de Verci
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Tamer17 said:
Interesting. Care to point to a more in-depth explanation?
lans
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Letters said:
I agree.
I never actually noticed it in the game - it's these damn screenshot geeks who overanaylze everything who notice this stuff.
Seriously - playing the game makes you forget about all the nasty shadow bugs - so to the rest of you: stop bitching.
First of all, It doesnt matter if its a bug or not; it looks incorrect and I think they should fix it. Second of all, it really doesnt matter to me; you think im complaining about it? I really couldn't care less about it. Im just informing you since you all thought it was fixed. Oh well...assume what you want.
KagePrototype
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It's a result of the lighting and shadowing techniques they use in Source engine. To fix it would take a lot longer than some people think. Coupled with the fact that it isn't very noticeable, I doubt Valve have it that high on their to do list.
Were giving HL2 too much credit... Little bugs like this are unacceptable. I love HL with all my heart and something little like this prob wont ruin the gameplay but it shows up everywhere and is fixible. This might only show up in CS and not in HL but if it shows up in one I feel as if it will be in both.
For a game with such a long development time bugs that are this bad are completely unacceptable.
For a game with such a long development time bugs that are this bad are completely unacceptable.
Q
qckbeam
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It's not not a bug, it's not a feature, it's a side-effect. The shadow error is simply an ugly side-effect of the way HL2 computes its shadows. It's certainly ugly, but its there to stay. It looks as if the only real fix would be to rewrite the part of the engine which takes care of shadows (which really look just fine for the most part). There are reasons Valve decided upon this particular technique, and there are reasons it won't change. It's either this, or no shadows.
Q
qckbeam
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CreedoG said:
Alright then
*qck tells it to CreedoG's boss
I don't know want you want me to tell you. It isn't a bug, because they knew it was going to happen in the design stage. It certainly isn't a feature. It's just a side-effect of the way they compute shadows. You honestly think they would let this stay in there if they could remove it without breaking anything else?
lans
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qckbeam said:
I can picturize that...
Valve employee: We need an engine that can do dynamic shadowing, soft shadowing, basically - every damn shadowing technique!
Gabe: No, we need shiny water...because people like shiny and purdy things. Shadows aren't shiny.
![[[LuCkY]]](https://valvetime-data.community.forum/avatars/m/1/1487.jpg?1330940179){kind=avatar}
I'm not saying they need every possible shadowing technique imaginable. Even Doom 3 doesn't do monster to monster shadowing.
But I think they could at least determine when a dynamic object has another dynamic object between it and it's shadow projection, and then decide not to display the shadow.
But I think they could at least determine when a dynamic object has another dynamic object between it and it's shadow projection, and then decide not to display the shadow.
qckbeam said:
The designers are non-programmers. They came up with the requirements for the engine, and then designed mockups and storyboards.
During IMPLEMENTATION, when the programmers actually started coding tests and techniques, the bug popped out.
No designer was sitting around going, "Well, the combine soldier's gun's shadow is going to show through this floor and give away his position to gordon when gordon's in the room below, but hey, it's a feature of our dynamic prop lighting, so oh well."
Q
qckbeam
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CreedoG said:
You're kidding me right? The people who layed out the engine before building it had to be programmers.
qckbeam said:
The people who implemented the engine are programmers. People who designed the game, and came up with the requirements of the engine are designers, not programmers. You said designers knew about the bug back when they designed it.
we're fighting over vocabulary. i call truce.
KagePrototype
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CreedoG said:
Programmers plan as well, you know. They didn't code the engine on the fly. They had to decide which techniques and features were best to implement and use, based on a number of factors. sure, they may not have planned the entire thing at once, but they still have to measure up the limitations that certain techniques will have.
poseyjmac
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you got a nice 'bug report' feature in CS:S. if you see something that looks off, USE IT! thats the most useful thing you can do if you want to see this possibly fixed in the future. if enough people report the bug, maybe valve will give it extra manpower and it will be fixed sooner than later. who knows! but thats what this bug report feature is for.
Q
qckbeam
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CreedoG said:
Alright, I'm sorry for the ambiguity. I was talking about the people who designed the engine, which were programmers.
Play4Fun
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Heres another pic that shows the "shadow bug"
http://wuggawoo.com/images/games/css/cs_italy0010.jpg
http://wuggawoo.com/images/games/css/cs_italy0010.jpg
Ok, the shadow-thingie isn't a bug.
It's apparently a conscious choice.
A mistake I could have understood, after all, everyone makes them. But I have a hard time accepting the fact that they knew about it and just said "it's ok, no one will notice/care" I just think that if you have shadows in the game they should be like real shadows. Who really want's alternate reality shadows?
It's apparently a conscious choice.
A mistake I could have understood, after all, everyone makes them. But I have a hard time accepting the fact that they knew about it and just said "it's ok, no one will notice/care"
I just think that if you have shadows in the game they should be like real shadows. Who really want's alternate reality shadows?
A
ACII
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The reason why the shadows do this is becuase of the lighting system. The reason why they use this lighting system is because it is not as CPU intensive as lets say, Doom 3's shadow system. This frees up resources that would have been spent on calculating an appropraite looking shadow so that they can be used for other things [physics, AI etc.]. For the most part, unless you actively seek out these "Errors" you are not going to notice them during gameplay. Of course they are going to look even WORSE in a static screenshot.
I won't even comment on Half-Life 2's gameply since I DON'T HAVE THE GAME, but if the shadow error bothers you so much go and play Doom 3. No one cares. I personally love how Doom 3 looks. But that is it. I can't play it anymore because it is the most BORING and, albeit Gorgeous, repetitive computer game I have ever played.
I won't even comment on Half-Life 2's gameply since I DON'T HAVE THE GAME, but if the shadow error bothers you so much go and play Doom 3. No one cares. I personally love how Doom 3 looks. But that is it. I can't play it anymore because it is the most BORING and, albeit Gorgeous, repetitive computer game I have ever played.
Would it save resources if it only displayed on the first surface it encountered. Instead of projecting on multiple surfaces. I think doing it once and then having some code check to make sure it was only on the first surface it encountered would free up even more time.
X
Xailia
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There should be a way to include distance calculations into the shadow calculations of objects, so that if two shadows overlap it would either blend the two shadows together with the same intensity (if they are within a certain distance of eachother) or not render the object that is closer to the light source.
However that might require changes to how shadows are calculated by the source engine (currently with one light source determining all the shadow shapes, and then extrapolating the actual shadows using the relative position of the other light sources to the main source), which would no doubt increase the number of calculations, and decrease performance. (This is at least how it is described in the hl2fallout article on the Source Engine)
Though since the only extra calculations would be distance calculations, it might not take much computational power.
All speculation, as I haven't programmed any games. I could be completely wrong.
However that might require changes to how shadows are calculated by the source engine (currently with one light source determining all the shadow shapes, and then extrapolating the actual shadows using the relative position of the other light sources to the main source), which would no doubt increase the number of calculations, and decrease performance. (This is at least how it is described in the hl2fallout article on the Source Engine)
Though since the only extra calculations would be distance calculations, it might not take much computational power.
All speculation, as I haven't programmed any games. I could be completely wrong.
M
Mango
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They should be working on it, they know there will be issues. At least it is out.
She
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ok... the overlapping is a problem.. but the stupid things is that the shadows tend to "travel" through the "active-object's" and land on the map.
That means, if a shadow lands on a table... it's supposed to land on the TABLE.. not travel through and land on the ground...
take his example.. the combine stands on his "vehicle".. now, his shadow travels through the vehicle and lands on the "non-active" gound (map)...
That means, if a shadow lands on a table... it's supposed to land on the TABLE.. not travel through and land on the ground...
take his example.. the combine stands on his "vehicle".. now, his shadow travels through the vehicle and lands on the "non-active" gound (map)...
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