That shadow bug from the crane picture still isn't fixed...

[cadaveca]

nobody else seeing OTHER "bugs" from 2 CS:S updates ago? i don't think we have a full working copy yet. when they release the HL2 game, we'll probably get another CS:S update too... seems to me we got the extra maps to shut us up, and so Valve can wait and see if their encryption works, and whether it ends up full "warez"ed.

 

[Arno]

Probably this shadow-system (allegedly)takes less processing time because it just projects right through everything and doesn't have to bother about checking where to make a stop.

Exactly. Shadows are only projected on flat surfaces like the walls and the floor. That's a lot easier then for example projecting the shadow of that desktop computer in the first pic onto an irregular shaped object such as that office chair. A heck of a lot of computations are needed to get such a shadow right.

 

[UndercoverBob]

faps per second....check........17...........OMG CALCULASE!!!!.......fap!....fap!..!.FAP!FAAP!FAP!FAP...ahhhhaa......bongo drums are cool whats you opinion
ok i noticed the TV on a table in havana cast the shadow on the ground below the table not on the table

 

[vicefredav444]

everytime I look at the pics, instead of noticing the shadows, I find myself admiring the realistic graphics. I eventually notice the shadows and then all I see is the annoying face in She's avatar telling me how horrible the shadows are.

I hope I don't have to experience this in hl2.

 

[Falcon(Nate)]

I think the decision was made thinking that people would rather have the possibility of 64 players in a server than completely correct shadows in a 4-player server (a la Doom 3).

Honestly, I am a visual freak. I love the shiny reflective marble floors in some of the maps, etc. The shadows don't bug me that much. No they aren't perfect, but they don't go through walls/floors, so they won't give away your position incorrectly either that I've seen so far.

Remember, Valve wanted to make a good-looking engine that people with mid/lower specs could play on, and I think they succeeded. In future versions of Source when people have computers that can handle the calculations, the lighting system may get a boost and this may be changed. But just enjoy the game for now.

Those of you who haven't played, stop obsessing over the screens and go find a friend with the game or buy it yourself and play. Get lost in the game and see how much fun you're having and then realize that yea, the shadows aren't quite right, but you're having a blast so you don't really care.

 

[She]

I eventually notice the shadows and then all I see is the annoying face in She's avatar telling me how horrible the shadows are.

hahahaha...
Is that an annoying face i make?

"Quick boys, she is here..."

quick what?

oh, and the shadows suck.

I think the decision was made thinking that people would rather have the possibility of 64 players in a server than completely correct shadows in a 4-player server

the shadow"bug" still exist in the GAME.. kthx. see you there.

 

[Falcon(Nate)]

She, if you bothered to read the rest of the post, I agreed with you that it is there.

Big deal.

Oh noes, Half-Life 2 doesn't have liquid physics! We're all gonna die!!!11!!elventy!!

For goodness sake, they can't model reality all at once. It comes in steps. With each step we'll get closer, but we're still pretty far away.

Doom 3 didn't have refractive/reflective water now did it, She? Is that a bug? Kthxbye.

 

[Falcon(Nate)]

My point is, to people who have open minds, engines make decisions depending on what they want to accomplish.

Doom3 wanted an experience that was largely dependant on lighting and shadows. It makes up a very large percentage of the game. I think they accomplished that.

Source allows for many more players and large open maps that don't kill framerates. I think they accomplished that as well.

It's not that one engine is "better" than the other. Is Doom3's dynamic shadowing better than HL2's? Yes. Is having large firefights in CS:Source more fun to me than waiting on the list for a 4-player DM? Yes. Trade-offs exist.

 

[She]

Doom 3 didn't have refractive/reflective water now did it, She? Is that a bug? Kthxbye.

As John Carmack said:
Why program something that isn't going to be used in the game?

Is Doom3's dynamic shadowing better than HL2's? Yes. Is having large firefights in CS:Source more fun to me than waiting on the list for a 4-player DM? Yes. Trade-offs exist.

sure.. but if you descide to include something.. you better make it work right.

There is a problem with HL2 shadows..
1: they are outdated (i dont see this as a problem)
2: and they bug.. (now this, is a problem..)
5 years.. several delays... still no fix..

 

[Falcon(Nate)]

Outdated because ONE engine has it? That makes no sense to me but okay...

 

[Big Fat Duck]

im not a big fan of the faked aspects of source.. im talking about the specularity/reflection maps that go through walls and change from room to room.. and those a really cheap way of using that technology

 

[Jarman]

hahahaha...
Is that an annoying face i make?

Is that you? Wow.

Basically you are right. If I was aware of such a bug/side effect, I would design my maps in order to hide it as much as possible. Unfortunately sometimes it's hard not to notice it (see the trainstation bink), so I believe they just said: "OK, we're gonna fix it soon, let's make the maps we want to make".

Btw, see below

 

[Asus]

I thought I also heard rumors that they were going to use distance to fade a shadow in and out now.
/me shrugs

Doesn't bother me one bit.

 

[cadaveca]

http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/555/555621p1.html?fromint=1
Here's the Q&A:
Quote:
Valve / Doug Lombardi Q&A

Voodoo Extreme - Has Valve and VU Games resolved its legal issues related to Half-Life 2?

[Doug Lombardi] No. Trial date is set for March 2005.

Voodoo Extreme - Have you received any feedback about the release candidate you sent to VU on Sept 15? If so, how is testing coming along?

[Doug Lombardi] Yes, and subsequent release candidates have been submitted. We expect to be complete very soon.

Voodoo Extreme - Are you pleased with the initial review scores Half-Life 2 has received from print publications?

[Doug Lombardi] Always nice to hear nice things about your baby.

-- Robert 'Apache' Howarth

read the news people..the game is not done.

 

[Eon Blue]

Lol @ this thread.

 

[CombineHarvester]

Frankly, I do believe SHE is becoming the most hated, or at least laughed at, member of this forum.

And I mean, jeez, there have been a few candidates over the last few days. Good going girl!

 

[fragShader]

I thought I also heard rumors that they were going to use distance to fade a shadow in and out now.
/me shrugs

Doesn't bother me one bit.

the shadows have always faded out over distance. watch the coast bink and look at the metal container as it is picked up. u can see shadows of the contents for a few seconds, then they fade out.

i think the smaller something is, the quicker it's shadow fades. the fade is calculated per-pixel i think, cos long shadows noticably fade from the start to the end.

that doesn't stop the overlapping shadows "problem" though.

regardless of wether the game is finished or not, i really don't think they will be changing the engine to stop it doing this. there are techniques for fixing it, but either they aren't compatible with other rendering techniques Source uses, or they cost too much performance wise, or Valve didn't think it was important.

 

[cadaveca]

or it's a driver issue.

 

[soul]

...and so Valve can wait and see if their encryption works, and whether it ends up full "warez"ed.

It was "warez"ed yesterday (the 7th). Anyone that asks where to grab it from will be wasting their time though.

 

[fragShader]

it might be as simple as this:
both the techniques i can think of for fixing it need you to run in 32bit color mode (or at least 32bit depthstencil, which on many cards means you must use 32bit color as well).
the HL2 hardware survey shows the vast majority of ppl still use 16 bit color.
personally i think that unless ur card is a PCI TNT2 you are _insane_ to still be using 16bit color, but most would disagree with me.
Valve may have not wanted to force everyone to use 32bit color modes.

 

[Yombi]

or it's a driver issue.

Nope not driver issue. But seriously....i didn't notice the damn 'bug' untill people bought it up.

ignorance is bliss.

 

[Icarus]

I can't say™ much about this subject, but I can say, just remember that CSS isn't HL2, and CSS isn't even finished yet.

 

[Asuka]

Why do i have a Referral? Just wondering what i did wrong because i have no idea.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

I can't say™ much about this subject, but I can say, just remember that CSS isn't HL2, and CSS isn't even finished yet.

Yeah, that is a good point, even without the hush-hush insider knowledge.

CSS is multiplayer, so even if valve had a solution to the shadows, they probably didn't put it in CSS in order to keep it simple, like how they downgraded the physics.

It would also explain why no HL2 review has mentioned the problem, to my knowledge.

 

[fragShader]

It would also explain why no HL2 review has mentioned the problem, to my knowledge.

they may not have mentioned it but it is in their screenshots.

more likely they just didn't notice it 'cos they don't pore obsessively over every HL2 detail like um... some ppl without real lives which obviously doesn't include me honest.

 

[iicehawk15]

Oh yeah, I'm sure your going to notice the shadow bug while your drooling over the detail in everything else, ROFL

ROFLLES!

 

[<RJMC>]

"OMG THERE IS A SHADOW BUG IN HL2!!111one
THATS MEAN HL2 SUCKS CUZ IS NOT PERFECT AND DONT HAV GRAPHICS THAT REQUIRE THOUSANDS OF GYGABYTES OF RAM AND GHZ AND MB!!!11
I GONNA VOMIT BUARRRGGG!!!11one"

the comentary of a anoiyng PC fanboy

 

[cadaveca]

i haven't noticed the "shadow bug" myself, but then again, i never looked for it. Nor will I.

I'm still wondering what happened to the start-up splashscreen. I thought that they had fixed that.

 

[groovy]

i actually noticed the crane bug immediately. i'm not gonna be heart broken because of it, but i still think Valve as developers should have done something to prevent it, or attempt to do so with a future patch. you want the game to be perfect and flawless. i wonder if Vivendi will have a bitch about it they're testing the RC.

 

[DaFreak]

Half-Life is gonna rock. I already bought it and i am gonna love it wether the shadow bug, feature, side effect, ... is gonna be in it or not.

But it all comes down to one thing...
Would you like correct shadows or shadows that fall through objects.

If i had a choice i would go for the correct shadows and i think that anybody in the correct state of mind would pick the same option. Even if you "don't care" about them you would still rather not have them go through objects.

So I would say (as mentioned in this thread before), Mail a bug report to valve about the shadow bug. They'd might just fix it and you cant go around the fact it would be a better, more perfect game then it already is if it was fixed.

And to people saying that it takes to much power to calculate wether the shadow can go through an object or not... Just look at HL1, shadows didn't go through objects there and that game is like 5 years old. If pc's where able to handle it then they will definatly be able to handle it now.

Then now for anyone replying with yet again something like: You won't notice the shadows when you are being analy raped by a headcrab... If this game is as good as HL1 (and i think it is), then i am going to play it over and over and over again. I'd might not notice them the first time, but i am gonna notice them the 700th time...


PS: I actualy think the bug (feature, side effect, whatever,...) isn't gonna make it into the final game. The RC wouldn't be accepted with such an obvious bug in it. (But just to be sure we should all mail a bug report about it anyway)

 

[Cole]

OMFG, STUPID SHADOW BUG NOW THE GAME TOTALLY SUX ASS. GOD, THATS LIKE WHAT SOURCE WAS MADE FOR, PURE SHADING SINCE HL2'S GAMEPLAY AND GRAPHICS ARE LIKE 10 YEARS OLD AND ALL WE COULD COUNT ON WAS THE SHADING WERE SCREWED. VALVE BONED US IN THE ASS. GOD HL2 IS LIKE THE GAYEST GAME NOW. SOURCE HAS NO GOOD FEATURES OMFGOMFOMGOMGOFMOMOMOFMG.
Ohhh wait..
HL2 will have great graphcis, gameplay, physics and everything.
OMFG A SHADOW BUG! GET OVER YOURSELVSE ALREADY WHO THE HELL CARES? HL1 DIDN'T EVEN HAVE SHADOWS(Well they were taken out), WHO THE HELL CARES. God, Doom 3 was made for shading & graphics, HL2 is made for gameplay..

 

[DaFreak]

ffs man you could have at least tried to get my previous post.

If you truly love HL you ll care about the shadow bug! If you truly love HL then you ll want this game to be perfect in every possible way!

I don't want my friends to come over (real doom lovers) and constantly hear them say: Dude whats up with the shadows. They will rub it in extra hard cause i said HL will be alot better then doom

(and it will be alot better, with or without shadow bug, atleast it has gameplay what you cant say of doom)

 

[operative x]

its so sad that i have to bump a retarded thread about shadows to get rid of the ***** guy... pitty pitty

 

[operative x]

umm yeah... shadows are fine

 

[DaFreak]

umm yeah... shadows are fine

no they are not they go through solid objects for a matter of fact.


man i feel like i am becoming the second she

 

[ne0_shiny]

they will fix it in a patch
i hope...

 

[Chode]

Oh my god, a lot of you people redefine the terms "idiots" and "fan boys".

It is a bug in a game, a graphical glitch if you prefer. Valve should be notified about this, since it is apparent in media they have released. If the bug remains in the final, then it shows that they missed a bug despite many fans telling them about it.

I can't believe people are defending a glitch in the game, trying to pass it off as how the physics or lighting engine work. Oh my god, a lot of the posts in this thread make me want to cry in frustration!

For those who have never actually been part of the production cycle of games, here's a quick lesson.

"The aim in a video game is to immerse the player in a virtual world. At a deep level, the player will know that it is a game world and not real. But, as a developer, your goal is to suspend that disbelief. Every event that happens in a game should be realistic, as much as it should happen in real life. (Havok physics really improve this immersiveness). But for every bug or glitch in your game, for one brief moment the player's disbelief is renewed. They again remember fully that it is a video game, and the immersiveness of your product is affected through this tiny event."

It's not a show-stopping bug/glitch. But it is definately one that would prove very obvious when objects are moving, and affect the over-all immersivity of any game that is made on the Source engine.

 

[fragShader]

Oh my god, a lot of you people redefine the terms "idiots" and "fan boys".

It is a bug in a game, a graphical glitch if you prefer. Valve should be notified about this, since it is apparent in media they have released. If the bug remains in the final, then it shows that they missed a bug despite many fans telling them about it.

I can't believe people are defending a glitch in the game, trying to pass it off as how the physics or lighting engine work. Oh my god, a lot of the posts in this thread make me want to cry in frustration!

the "bug" is inherent in the (well-known) algorithm they are using. the workarounds are equally well-known. are u suggesting that no-one at Valve knows how to write graphics code? maybe they need an experienced person like u on board.

 

[DrEvil]

Yeah right, tell that to my boss. She'd post a notice in our bug tracker program so fast my head would spin.

lol yeah that would give my boss a good laugh as well.

 

[Chode]

the "bug" is inherent in the (well-known) algorithm they are using. the workarounds are equally well-known. are u suggesting that no-one at Valve knows how to write graphics code? maybe they need an experienced person like u on board.

And you claim to know the way they are faking dynamic lights? Obviously not, for you would know that a shadow system is more than an algorithm but more like 10,000 algorithms as part of a section of code.

That "inherent in the algorithm" story I think originated from these forums, but I can tell you now that it is 100% B.S.

If Valve is overlooking an ovbious and easily reproduceable graphics glitch, then maybe they don't know how to write graphics code.

(if the above goes above your head, this may be easier to read: Get a life, work in the games industry, learn one or two things)